Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

As to the envy not being good for LA batteries. Yes rhe 60v max is just too low. Does it have 3 stage charging?I’m curious to see what the new midnite solar inverter has to offer. It shows up to 64v battery. JayOn Mar 28, 2024, at 6:44 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Howie,    I might be interested in taking the Envy off your hands.  I haven't made the move from Outback equipment but have joined the LFP world. I also like to testnew products on my own off grid system and have 3 e-Flex batteries.  Contact me off list if interested.John Blittersdorfjohn.blittersd...@gmail.co On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 12:30 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches  wrote:William, I am sure that I am not the only one on the list that appreciates your willingness to share your experience, well thought out analysis, and solutions.  As always, thank you for your insights and ideas. And thanks for taking the time to highlight your positive interactions with Fortress. I too have had generally good experience with Fortress's support, which is no small part of why I've chosen to install many eVault Max cabinets, particularly for off grid systems. This is also,  in part, why I chose to try their Envy inverter in my off-grid house that currently has an older 1300 ah lead acid battery bank (whenever I have the opportunity to try new to me equipment in my own place, I do so). I have used Sol-Ark in many installs, and have been generally pleased with them, but am growing weary of firmware updates that cause problems and errors between disparate brands. This issue has only grown more critical and troublesome with the advent of closed loop communications between hybrid inverters and Lithium BMSs. So I was anxious to try the Envy,  which is promoted as working with many Lithium batteries in closed loop, as well as Lead acid, both on and off grid. I should have done more research before buying it for use in this setting. In short,  in my opinion, the Envy is woefully inadequate for use with lead acid batteries. The programming and capabilities for use with a Lead Acid battery bank are on the verge of useless. And regrettably, in trying to understand how to set it up and dealing with what turned out to be serious shortcomings, talking with their support for many hours over several calls about this, was even more abysmal.  I was basically  told that I should not use the Envy with L-A  batteries, it wasn't  designed for such use, and if i did so, that was at my own peril (not their exact words). This inspite of their sales team and advertising saying otherwise. It was one of the worst support  interactions I've  had since talking with Xantrex (about issues with their TM500 meter interfering with the C40's functionality) 20 years ago. This was not the experience I was hoping for. I don't typically bad mouth a company here, especially one that I've enjoyed good results with. My preference is to highlight companies/equipment that have worked well for me. However, I have made multiple attempts to email their support team, their sales team and their higher level tech,  with absolutely no response.  Crickets. Now I am frustrated, hence this missive.I will be replacing the Envy with another more appropriately designed inverter. Hopefully, I will be able to do something useful with it. Howie MichaelsonOn Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 10:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled system.  If not, here is the case study. The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back. I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste some solar capability. I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists. To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to use, which is the reason for this post. Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress. Hi William, Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still actively working on this case to provide you with a solution. We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not resolve the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams are in discussions to provide a solution to this battery/inverter compatibility issue. We will provide updates on a solution as we 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches]

Howie,
I might be interested in taking the Envy off your hands.  I haven't
made the move from Outback equipment but have joined the LFP world. I also
like to test
new products on my own off grid system and have 3 e-Flex batteries.
Contact me off list if interested.

John Blittersdorf
john.blittersd...@gmail.co



On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 12:30 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> William,
>
> I am sure that I am not the only one on the list that appreciates your
> willingness to share your experience, well thought out analysis, and
> solutions.  As always, thank you for your insights and ideas. And thanks
> for taking the time to highlight your positive interactions with Fortress.
>
> I too have had generally good experience with Fortress's support, which is
> no small part of why I've chosen to install many eVault Max cabinets,
> particularly for off grid systems. This is also,  in part, why I chose to
> try their Envy inverter in my off-grid house that currently has an older
> 1300 ah lead acid battery bank (whenever I have the opportunity to try new
> to me equipment in my own place, I do so).
>
> I have used Sol-Ark in many installs, and have been generally pleased with
> them, but am growing weary of firmware updates that cause problems and
> errors between disparate brands. This issue has only grown more critical
> and troublesome with the advent of closed loop communications between
> hybrid inverters and Lithium BMSs.
>
> So I was anxious to try the Envy,  which is promoted as working with many
> Lithium batteries in closed loop, as well as Lead acid, both on and off
> grid. I should have done more research before buying it for use in this
> setting.
>
> In short,  in my opinion, the Envy is woefully inadequate for use with
> lead acid batteries. The programming and capabilities for use with a Lead
> Acid battery bank are on the verge of useless. And regrettably, in trying
> to understand how to set it up and dealing with what turned out to be
> serious shortcomings, talking with their support for many hours over
> several calls about this, was even more abysmal.  I was basically  told
> that I should not use the Envy with L-A  batteries, it wasn't  designed for
> such use, and if i did so, that was at my own peril (not their exact
> words). This inspite of their sales team and advertising saying otherwise.
> It was one of the worst support  interactions I've  had since talking with
> Xantrex (about issues with their TM500 meter interfering with the C40's
> functionality) 20 years ago. This was not the experience I was hoping for.
>
> I don't typically bad mouth a company here, especially one that I've
> enjoyed good results with. My preference is to highlight
> companies/equipment that have worked well for me. However, I have made
> multiple attempts to email their support team, their sales team and their
> higher level tech,  with absolutely no response.  Crickets. Now I am
> frustrated, hence this missive.
>
> I will be replacing the Envy with another more appropriately designed
> inverter. Hopefully, I will be able to do something useful with it.
>
> Howie Michaelson
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 10:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of
>> Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled
>> system.  If not, here
>> 
>> is the case study.
>>
>>
>>
>> The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to
>> short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause
>> a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect
>> the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste
>> some solar capability.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch
>> and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to
>> find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists.
>>
>>
>>
>> To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress
>> products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to
>> know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to
>> use, which is the reason for this post.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi William,
>>
>>
>>
>> Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still
>> actively working on this case to provide you with a solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not
>> resolve the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams
>> are in discussions to 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches]

William,

I am sure that I am not the only one on the list that appreciates your
willingness to share your experience, well thought out analysis, and
solutions.  As always, thank you for your insights and ideas. And thanks
for taking the time to highlight your positive interactions with Fortress.

I too have had generally good experience with Fortress's support, which is
no small part of why I've chosen to install many eVault Max cabinets,
particularly for off grid systems. This is also,  in part, why I chose to
try their Envy inverter in my off-grid house that currently has an older
1300 ah lead acid battery bank (whenever I have the opportunity to try new
to me equipment in my own place, I do so).

I have used Sol-Ark in many installs, and have been generally pleased with
them, but am growing weary of firmware updates that cause problems and
errors between disparate brands. This issue has only grown more critical
and troublesome with the advent of closed loop communications between
hybrid inverters and Lithium BMSs.

So I was anxious to try the Envy,  which is promoted as working with many
Lithium batteries in closed loop, as well as Lead acid, both on and off
grid. I should have done more research before buying it for use in this
setting.

In short,  in my opinion, the Envy is woefully inadequate for use with lead
acid batteries. The programming and capabilities for use with a Lead Acid
battery bank are on the verge of useless. And regrettably, in trying to
understand how to set it up and dealing with what turned out to be serious
shortcomings, talking with their support for many hours over several calls
about this, was even more abysmal.  I was basically  told that I should not
use the Envy with L-A  batteries, it wasn't  designed for such use, and if
i did so, that was at my own peril (not their exact words). This inspite of
their sales team and advertising saying otherwise. It was one of the worst
support  interactions I've  had since talking with Xantrex (about issues
with their TM500 meter interfering with the C40's functionality) 20 years
ago. This was not the experience I was hoping for.

I don't typically bad mouth a company here, especially one that I've
enjoyed good results with. My preference is to highlight
companies/equipment that have worked well for me. However, I have made
multiple attempts to email their support team, their sales team and their
higher level tech,  with absolutely no response.  Crickets. Now I am
frustrated, hence this missive.

I will be replacing the Envy with another more appropriately designed
inverter. Hopefully, I will be able to do something useful with it.

Howie Michaelson


On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 10:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of
> Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled
> system.  If not, here
> 
> is the case study.
>
>
>
> The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to
> short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause
> a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back.
>
>
>
> I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect
> the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste
> some solar capability.
>
>
>
> I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch
> and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to
> find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists.
>
>
>
> To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress
> products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to
> know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to
> use, which is the reason for this post.
>
>
>
> Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress.
>
>
>
> Hi William,
>
>
>
> Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still
> actively working on this case to provide you with a solution.
>
>
>
> We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not resolve
> the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams are in
> discussions to provide a solution to this battery/inverter compatibility
> issue. We will provide updates on a solution as we receive them. I
> unfortunately do not have a timeline to provide, but we will have one soon.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your patience.
>
>
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Galen Gennaria
>
>
>
> I will update the case study when new developments occur.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Do you have the 42-48 or the newer 55-48, l have used both in off grid AC
Coupled systems with no issues, inverters freq shift and self power down. I
did eliminate the battery temp sensor and use a resistor in its place to
stabilize the charge rate.
Can you again call out the issue you are having with the inverters as this
might help answer or at least even resemble issue we might also be seeing.
Fun times

On Wed, Mar 27, 2024, 7:14 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of
> Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled
> system.  If not, here
> 
> is the case study.
>
>
>
> The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to
> short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause
> a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back.
>
>
>
> I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect
> the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste
> some solar capability.
>
>
>
> I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch
> and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to
> find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists.
>
>
>
> To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress
> products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to
> know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to
> use, which is the reason for this post.
>
>
>
> Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress.
>
>
>
> Hi William,
>
>
>
> Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still
> actively working on this case to provide you with a solution.
>
>
>
> We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not resolve
> the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams are in
> discussions to provide a solution to this battery/inverter compatibility
> issue. We will provide updates on a solution as we receive them. I
> unfortunately do not have a timeline to provide, but we will have one soon.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your patience.
>
>
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Galen Gennaria
>
>
>
> I will update the case study when new developments occur.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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>
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>
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[RE-wrenches] Good tech support

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Friends:



Some of you may remember the problems I am having integrating a set of
Fortress batteries with an off-grid Sunny Island/Sunny Boy ac-coupled
system.  If not, here

is the case study.



The problem has been in abeyance for the last few months because due to
short days and cloudy weather.  There has not been enough sunshine to cause
a recurrence.  Now that spring has sprung the problem is back.



I did come up with a work-around:  I installed a contactor to disconnect
the Sunny Boys whenever the SOC gets to 90%.  This works but it does waste
some solar capability.



I have been working with Fortress on the issue.  They have been in touch
and have been very generous in offering support and spending time trying to
find a solution.  Most important they have admitted the problem exists.



To me this is very refreshing.  This makes me want to use more Fortress
products and sing their praises.  I think my fellow wrenches would want to
know about this great support when contemplating which battery products to
use, which is the reason for this post.



Below is an excerpt from an email received today from Fortress.



Hi William,



Apologies for the lapse in communication on this subject, we are still
actively working on this case to provide you with a solution.



We have confirmed here in our Lab that the older firmware does not resolve
the issue as you have stated and the engineering and product teams are in
discussions to provide a solution to this battery/inverter compatibility
issue. We will provide updates on a solution as we receive them. I
unfortunately do not have a timeline to provide, but we will have one soon.



Thank you for your patience.



Warm regards,

Galen Gennaria



I will update the case study when new developments occur.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985
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