Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Hi Jeff: I have had some similar issues with the Kohler generators in recent years, after installing hundreds of air cooled and water cooled generators from them. I have heard that they are less reliable now, and the company is harder to deal with now. Recently, I tried a Generac in an off-grid project, which I have found is even more difficult to work with. They don't warranty the product for off-grid applications, it requires hard wiring a battery charger, and it starts and stops based on utility sensing, which required installation of a relay to switch the sensing circuit on and off. It was a pain to deal with, and required a few more trips to the site than I would have liked. On a similar note, Xantrex provided the Auto Gen Start module, but it did not support 2-wire start! Isn't that the most common gen start configuration? The newer versions do offer that now. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jeff Yago jry...@netscape.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, March 29, 2010 7:53:18 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Although we have specified and included Kohler RES models in all our off-grid and battery based solar projects for over 15 years, we have seen a real decline in the suitability of the Kohler line in the past few years for use in solar/battery/generator applications. First they killed off the 1800 RPM units under 15 kW. We had many older systems that would not work when we replaced an aging 1800 RPM unit with their same kW size new 3600 RPM units, which made inverters go nuts with under-voltage and over-current errors. Then several years ago they got rid of the battery charging alternator or whatever that re-charged the battery when the generator was running as a way to reduce costs, so now the only way to keep the battery charged was to plug in a full time float charger. This 24/7 electrical load is not a good idea for smaller off-grid systems and requires another set of wires out to the generator to supply this outlet. Finally, Kohler added a diagnostic electronics panel that adds another 24/7 electrical load. We kill this off during installation on any off-grid application as we cannot justify this 24/7 standby load. There is a software switch to do this, but its not easy to find in the instructions. Funny thing was the other day I received a call from the main Kohler factory about some marketing issues and I finally let loose with the above rant. I really complained that so far they have done everything they could NOT to serve this very large and growing off-grid market, and I pointed out that most of their recent design improvements made their generators LESS suitable for this market, not better. This guy was absolutely dumb-struck, and it appears to me that they have made no effort to understand this market. Their more recent efforts to void warranties is just another reason to look for a different generator supplier. Has anyone on this list had any contact from Kohler central office about finding out what features this industry needs? The guy I talked with may be just blowing smoke, but he promised to have a followup call in next few weeks to learn more about what they can do. According to him, he thinks they can add a software switch in the programming for little or no cost like on/grid - off/grid that we could access during setup that would adjust generator parameters and standby losses when used in an inverter-battery application. In case he really does followup, are there any other rants I could include from you guys that have been a problem for you when using Kohler generators. I will assume we are limiting this to their non-water cooled units under 15 kW. While ranting on generators, the main reason we liked to use Kohler was the easy 2-wire start/stop connections you can connect to the aux relay in most inverters, while many other generator brands were not easy to remote start from an inverter or required multi-step starting relays. Has this changed, and are there now other brands of generators in the 8 to 15 kW range that work well for backup of solar/battery charging applications and the manufacturer does not have warranty issues when used in off-grid applications? Thanks, Jeff Yago _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Jeff: I have had some similar issues with the Kohler generators in recent years, after installing hundreds of air cooled and water cooled generators from them. I have heard that they are less reliable now, and the company is harder to deal with now. Recently, I tried a Generac in an off-grid project, which I have found is even more difficult to work with. They don't warranty the product for off-grid applications, it requires hard wiring a battery charger, and it starts and stops based on utility sensing, which required installation of a relay to switch the sensing circuit on and off. It was a pain to deal with, and required a few more trips to the site than I would have liked. On a similar note, Xantrex provided the Auto Gen Start module, but it did not support 2-wire start! Isn't that the most common gen start configuration? The newer versions do offer that now. Is this no warranty if used off grid in writing from these manufacturers, or is it just some salespeople saying this ? Why would you need a generator if you have grid available ? boB Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 *From:* Jeff Yago jry...@netscape.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Mon, March 29, 2010 7:53:18 AM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Although we have specified and included Kohler RES models in all our off-grid and battery based solar projects for over 15 years, we have seen a real decline in the suitability of the Kohler line in the past few years for use in solar/battery/generator applications. First they killed off the 1800 RPM units under 15 kW. We had many older systems that would not work when we replaced an aging 1800 RPM unit with their same kW size new 3600 RPM units, which made inverters go nuts with under-voltage and over-current errors. Then several years ago they got rid of the battery charging alternator or whatever that re-charged the battery when the generator was running as a way to reduce costs, so now the only way to keep the battery charged was to plug in a full time float charger. This 24/7 electrical load is not a good idea for smaller off-grid systems and requires another set of wires out to the generator to supply this outlet. Finally, Kohler added a diagnostic electronics panel that adds another 24/7 electrical load. We kill this off during installation on any off-grid application as we cannot justify this 24/7 standby load. There is a software switch to do this, but its not easy to find in the instructions. Funny thing was the other day I received a call from the main Kohler factory about some marketing issues and I finally let loose with the above rant. I really complained that so far they have done everything they could NOT to serve this very large and growing off-grid market, and I pointed out that most of their recent design improvements made their generators LESS suitable for this market, not better. This guy was absolutely dumb-struck, and it appears to me that they have made no effort to understand this market. Their more recent efforts to void warranties is just another reason to look for a different generator supplier. Has anyone on this list had any contact from Kohler central office about finding out what features this industry needs? The guy I talked with may be just blowing smoke, but he promised to have a followup call in next few weeks to learn more about what they can do. According to him, he thinks they can add a software switch in the programming for little or no cost like on/grid - off/grid that we could access during setup that would adjust generator parameters and standby losses when used in an inverter-battery application. In case he really does followup, are there any other rants I could include from you guys that have been a problem for you when using Kohler generators. I will assume we are limiting this to their non-water cooled units under 15 kW. While ranting on generators, the main reason we liked to use Kohler was the easy 2-wire start/stop connections you can connect to the aux relay in most inverters, while many other generator brands were not easy to remote start from an inverter or required multi-step starting relays. Has this changed, and are there now other brands of generators in the 8 to 15 kW range that work well for backup of solar/battery charging applications and the manufacturer does not have warranty issues when used in off-grid applications? Thanks, Jeff Yago _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Bob, I guess you don't live in a hurricane prone area! Grid-tied or off-grid, backup generators are common in this neck of the woods. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Southwest Florida Original Message Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:07:28 -0700 From: boB Gudgel b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Message-ID: 4bb24bf0.7000...@midnitesolar.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowe Is this no warranty if used off grid in writing from these manufacturers, or is it just some salespeople saying this ? Why would you need a generator if you have grid available ? boB ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Jason Szumlanski wrote: Bob, I guess you don't live in a hurricane prone area! Grid-tied or off-grid, backup generators are common in this neck of the woods. Yes, of course, Jason. But, wouldn't it be more of a generator run time issue ?? After all, the grid isn't really there when the power is out... is it ? I guess that's subject to interpretation. We deal with generator installations so I would still like to know if there is something in writing or if it has been only verbal at this point. Something sounds fishy to me. Oh, and 3 tubs of tartar with that fish, please. Thanks guys. boB Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar Southwest Florida Original Message Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:07:28 -0700 From: boB Gudgel b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Message-ID: 4bb24bf0.7000...@midnitesolar.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowe Is this no warranty if used off grid in writing from these manufacturers, or is it just some salespeople saying this ? Why would you need a generator if you have grid available ? boB ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Hi boB, The issue is whether the generator is rated for use as prime power or rated as back-up power. Prime power units will get considerably more run-time hours on them then generators used in back-up. At least that is what the generator manufacturers think. Once upon a time it didn't matter. The engines were heavy cast iron, and running at slow speeds, usually 1800RPM, but sometimes as low as 1200RPM, and lasted for thousands of hours of run time. As the manufacturers switched to cheaper aluminum engines running at 3600, the amount of hours before a major rebuild was required decreased. Honda, and others, were able to bring aluminum engines back up to fairly long life-spans, but they are still not as rugged as those old hunks of iron. Emission regulations further destroyed the old iron engines, unless you get one big enough to have 4-cylinders. There is no reason, other than cost, for Kohler to not make a 4-cylinder, cast iron, 1800RPM, prime-power unit, but maybe they feel that there just isn't enough of a market for them to build it. I think that they are wrong, but I don't know the true numbers. The real problem is that the generator manufacturers don't understand how off-grid systems work these days. 20 years ago, you could expect an off-grid generator to rack up considerable hours in a short time. These days, we get PV to do that, and the genny is just used for back-up. If the system is designed properly, the genny should get minimal hours per year, and the manufacturer should be able to warranty them. They need to be educated. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of boB Gudgel Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:07 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Jeff: I have had some similar issues with the Kohler generators in recent years, after installing hundreds of air cooled and water cooled generators from them. I have heard that they are less reliable now, and the company is harder to deal with now. Recently, I tried a Generac in an off-grid project, which I have found is even more difficult to work with. They don't warranty the product for off-grid applications, it requires hard wiring a battery charger, and it starts and stops based on utility sensing, which required installation of a relay to switch the sensing circuit on and off. It was a pain to deal with, and required a few more trips to the site than I would have liked. On a similar note, Xantrex provided the Auto Gen Start module, but it did not support 2-wire start! Isn't that the most common gen start configuration? The newer versions do offer that now. Is this no warranty if used off grid in writing from these manufacturers, or is it just some salespeople saying this ? Why would you need a generator if you have grid available ? boB Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 *From:* Jeff Yago jry...@netscape.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Mon, March 29, 2010 7:53:18 AM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Although we have specified and included Kohler RES models in all our off-grid and battery based solar projects for over 15 years, we have seen a real decline in the suitability of the Kohler line in the past few years for use in solar/battery/generator applications. First they killed off the 1800 RPM units under 15 kW. We had many older systems that would not work when we replaced an aging 1800 RPM unit with their same kW size new 3600 RPM units, which made inverters go nuts with under-voltage and over-current errors. Then several years ago they got rid of the battery charging alternator or whatever that re-charged the battery when the generator was running as a way to reduce costs, so now the only way to keep the battery charged was to plug in a full time float charger. This 24/7 electrical load is not a good idea for smaller off-grid systems and requires another set of wires out to the generator to supply this outlet. Finally, Kohler added a diagnostic electronics panel that adds another 24/7 electrical load. We kill this off during installation on any off-grid application as we cannot justify this 24/7 standby load. There is a software switch to do this, but its not easy to find in the instructions. Funny thing was the other day I received a call from the main Kohler factory about some marketing issues and I finally let loose with the above rant. I really complained that so far they have done everything they could NOT to serve this very large and growing off-grid market, and I
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Brian Teitelbaum wrote: Hi boB, The issue is whether the generator is rated for use as prime power or rated as back-up power. Prime power units will get considerably more run-time hours on them then generators used in back-up. At least that is what the generator manufacturers think. Once upon a time it didn't matter. The engines were heavy cast iron, and running at slow speeds, usually 1800RPM, but sometimes as low as 1200RPM, and lasted for thousands of hours of run time. As the manufacturers switched to cheaper aluminum engines running at 3600, the amount of hours before a major rebuild was required decreased. Honda, and others, were able to bring aluminum engines back up to fairly long life-spans, but they are still not as rugged as those old hunks of iron. Emission regulations further destroyed the old iron engines, unless you get one big enough to have 4-cylinders. There is no reason, other than cost, for Kohler to not make a 4-cylinder, cast iron, 1800RPM, prime-power unit, but maybe they feel that there just isn't enough of a market for them to build it. I think that they are wrong, but I don't know the true numbers. The real problem is that the generator manufacturers don't understand how off-grid systems work these days. 20 years ago, you could expect an off-grid generator to rack up considerable hours in a short time. These days, we get PV to do that, and the genny is just used for back-up. If the system is designed properly, the genny should get minimal hours per year, and the manufacturer should be able to warranty them. They need to be educated. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar Thanks Brian. Yes, I do believe they need to be educated that these days, their generators, even backup rather than prim power classes, are more of a backup. If they wanted to, they could just use the run time meter to decide if it is warranty or not, maybe. Thanks again, boB -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of boB Gudgel Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:07 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Jeff: I have had some similar issues with the Kohler generators in recent years, after installing hundreds of air cooled and water cooled generators from them. I have heard that they are less reliable now, and the company is harder to deal with now. Recently, I tried a Generac in an off-grid project, which I have found is even more difficult to work with. They don't warranty the product for off-grid applications, it requires hard wiring a battery charger, and it starts and stops based on utility sensing, which required installation of a relay to switch the sensing circuit on and off. It was a pain to deal with, and required a few more trips to the site than I would have liked. On a similar note, Xantrex provided the Auto Gen Start module, but it did not support 2-wire start! Isn't that the most common gen start configuration? The newer versions do offer that now. Is this no warranty if used off grid in writing from these manufacturers, or is it just some salespeople saying this ? Why would you need a generator if you have grid available ? boB Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 *From:* Jeff Yago jry...@netscape.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Mon, March 29, 2010 7:53:18 AM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Although we have specified and included Kohler RES models in all our off-grid and battery based solar projects for over 15 years, we have seen a real decline in the suitability of the Kohler line in the past few years for use in solar/battery/generator applications. First they killed off the 1800 RPM units under 15 kW. We had many older systems that would not work when we replaced an aging 1800 RPM unit with their same kW size new 3600 RPM units, which made inverters go nuts with under-voltage and over-current errors. Then several years ago they got rid of the battery charging alternator or whatever that re-charged the battery when the generator was running as a way to reduce costs, so now the only way to keep the battery charged was to plug in a full time float charger. This 24/7 electrical load is not a good idea for smaller off-grid systems and requires another set of wires out to the generator to supply this outlet. Finally, Kohler added a diagnostic electronics panel that adds another 24/7 electrical load. We kill this off during installation on any off-grid application as we cannot justify this 24/7 standby load. There is a software switch to do this, but its not easy to find in the instructions
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Jeff, When we purchased a 12K unit for a client, the distributor conveniently waited until after the purchase to mention the fact that Kohler wouldn't warranty off-grid usage, and to instruct our customer to not ever mention anything other than it was used for grid-connected standby. To pacify the perfectly crafted words I had for him, he mentioned that Kohler had an off grid unit coming available in the next couple of months addressing all of the fore-mentioned concerns. This was about 2 years ago, and I now see where he intended his smoke to go. I have never heard of such a unit again. When that same client needed another generator we shopped around and found Cummins-Onan to be great to deal with. Simple start up procedure, quieter than that Kohler 12K, 2-wire start, and their price for a 30K generator was 800.00 cheaper than my Kohler distributor could give to me even though it was our first purchase with them. Thus far I have been pleased with Onan. To answer your question, we have never been contacted by Kohler. Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
I'm told Kohler has an 1800 RPM 10 15K Diesel unit that ties in nicely with a Hot water heating system.Dan BrownPresidentFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues From: jason pozner zzyyzz...@gmail.com Date: Tue, March 30, 2010 5:11 pm To: jry...@netscape.com, RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Jeff,When we purchased a 12K unit for a client, the distributor conveniently waited until after the purchase to mention the fact that Kohler wouldn't warranty off-grid usage, and to instruct our customer to not ever mention anything other than it was used for grid-connected standby. To pacify the perfectly crafted words I had for him, he mentioned that Kohler had an off grid unit coming available in the next couple of months addressing all of the fore-mentioned concerns. This was about 2 years ago, and I now see where he intended his smoke to go. I have never heard of such a unit again. When that same client needed another generator we shopped around and found Cummins-Onan to be great to deal with. Simple start up procedure, quieter than that Kohler 12K, 2-wire start, and their price for a 30K generator was 800.00 cheaper than my Kohler distributor could give to me even though it was our first purchase with them. Thus far I have been pleased with Onan. To answer your question, we have never been contacted by Kohler.Jay PoznerNunatak Alternative Energy Solutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Jeff, check out Gillette Generators. Prime power warranty. and 'ok with inverter' Jeremy - Original Message - From: Jeff Yago jry...@netscape.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Although we have specified and included Kohler RES models in all our off-grid and battery based solar projects for over 15 years, we have seen a real decline in the suitability of the Kohler line in the past few years for use in solar/battery/generator applications. First they killed off the 1800 RPM units under 15 kW. We had many older systems that would not work when we replaced an aging 1800 RPM unit with their same kW size new 3600 RPM units, which made inverters go nuts with under-voltage and over-current errors. Then several years ago they got rid of the battery charging alternator or whatever that re-charged the battery when the generator was running as a way to reduce costs, so now the only way to keep the battery charged was to plug in a full time float charger. This 24/7 electrical load is not a good idea for smaller off-grid systems and requires another set of wires out to the generator to supply this outlet. Finally, Kohler added a diagnostic electronics panel that adds another 24/7 electrical load. We kill this off during installation on any off-grid application as we cannot justify this 24/7 standby load. There is a software switch to do this, but its not easy to find in the instructions. Funny thing was the other day I received a call from the main Kohler factory about some marketing issues and I finally let loose with the above rant. I really complained that so far they have done everything they could NOT to serve this very large and growing off-grid market, and I pointed out that most of their recent design improvements made their generators LESS suitable for this market, not better. This guy was absolutely dumb-struck, and it appears to me that they have made no effort to understand this market. Their more recent efforts to void warranties is just another reason to look for a different generator supplier. Has anyone on this list had any contact from Kohler central office about finding out what features this industry needs? The guy I talked with may be just blowing smoke, but he promised to have a followup call in next few weeks to learn more about what they can do. According to him, he thinks they can add a software switch in the programming for little or no cost like on/grid - off/grid that we could access during setup that would adjust generator parameters and standby losses when used in an inverter-battery application. In case he really does followup, are there any other rants I could include from you guys that have been a problem for you when using Kohler generators. I will assume we are limiting this to their non-water cooled units under 15 kW. While ranting on generators, the main reason we liked to use Kohler was the easy 2-wire start/stop connections you can connect to the aux relay in most inverters, while many other generator brands were not easy to remote start from an inverter or required multi-step starting relays. Has this changed, and are there now other brands of generators in the 8 to 15 kW range that work well for backup of solar/battery charging applications and the manufacturer does not have warranty issues when used in off-grid applications? Thanks, Jeff Yago _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Although the 48 volt output from the Cummings small gen is unusual, I like the Propane option, and perhaps it is suitable. It is small, 5 kW but also batteries last longer on a slow charge. It also has a controlled output to do battery charging. Darryl --- On Mon, 3/29/10, All Solar, Inc. Jeremy Rodriguez allso...@scswifi.net wrote: From: All Solar, Inc. Jeremy Rodriguez allso...@scswifi.net Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues To: jry...@netscape.com, RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 12:52 PM Jeff, check out Gillette Generators. Prime power warranty. and 'ok with inverter' Jeremy - Original Message - From: Jeff Yago jry...@netscape.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues Although we have specified and included Kohler RES models in all our off-grid and battery based solar projects for over 15 years, we have seen a real decline in the suitability of the Kohler line in the past few years for use in solar/battery/generator applications. First they killed off the 1800 RPM units under 15 kW. We had many older systems that would not work when we replaced an aging 1800 RPM unit with their same kW size new 3600 RPM units, which made inverters go nuts with under-voltage and over-current errors. Then several years ago they got rid of the battery charging alternator or whatever that re-charged the battery when the generator was running as a way to reduce costs, so now the only way to keep the battery charged was to plug in a full time float charger. This 24/7 electrical load is not a good idea for smaller off-grid systems and requires another set of wires out to the generator to supply this outlet. Finally, Kohler added a diagnostic electronics panel that adds another 24/7 electrical load. We kill this off during installation on any off-grid application as we cannot justify this 24/7 standby load. There is a software switch to do this, but its not easy to find in the instructions. Funny thing was the other day I received a call from the main Kohler factory about some marketing issues and I finally let loose with the above rant. I really complained that so far they have done everything they could NOT to serve this very large and growing off-grid market, and I pointed out that most of their recent design improvements made their generators LESS suitable for this market, not better. This guy was absolutely dumb-struck, and it appears to me that they have made no effort to understand this market. Their more recent efforts to void warranties is just another reason to look for a different generator supplier. Has anyone on this list had any contact from Kohler central office about finding out what features this industry needs? The guy I talked with may be just blowing smoke, but he promised to have a followup call in next few weeks to learn more about what they can do. According to him, he thinks they can add a software switch in the programming for little or no cost like on/grid - off/grid that we could access during setup that would adjust generator parameters and standby losses when used in an inverter-battery application. In case he really does followup, are there any other rants I could include from you guys that have been a problem for you when using Kohler generators. I will assume we are limiting this to their non-water cooled units under 15 kW. While ranting on generators, the main reason we liked to use Kohler was the easy 2-wire start/stop connections you can connect to the aux relay in most inverters, while many other generator brands were not easy to remote start from an inverter or required multi-step starting relays. Has this changed, and are there now other brands of generators in the 8 to 15 kW range that work well for backup of solar/battery charging applications and the manufacturer does not have warranty issues when used in off-grid applications? Thanks, Jeff Yago _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re
