Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp
Back in '06 I got a nifty roll of stickers that I think were meant to be put inverters. But we put so much (doubtless important) signage on our systems, I stopped using them. Maybe they might be used on plans. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Troy Harvey Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:05 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp I am wondering if anyone has had a NABCEP stamp made to stamp plans. I have a city agency who is comfortable with the NABCEP certification as a qualification, but would like to see a stamp. Has anyone out there done this? Troy ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp
I cannot speak for NABCEP either, but if I understand the intent of the building official, he or she is seeking a level of assurance of the design submittal. I think that would be a misapplication of the concept of NABCEP. NABCEP allows those who have passed the exams to use the NABCEP logo in various ways. But it is not used to certify anything other than that the holder has passed an exam that tests core competencies necessary to correctly install the technology. It is not a substitute for a PE stamp, and obviously even a PE stamp is no guarantee of a flawless design. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp
Bill Peter, Okay, if I have a PE Stamp that means I went to school and worked under a mentor for an amount of time to qualify for the PE exam. Passed the exam and I got my stamp. If I have NABCEP certification that means I worked installing solar electric systems (in my case) for an amount of time and /or went to school to qualify for the NABCEP exam and passed the test. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference here. If NABCEP provided a stamp to it's members that they could use to stamp drawings all it would show is that someone who passed the NABCEP exam reviewed the design and hung his or her name on the job. I don't see where NABCEP would be responsible for the design anymore than the PE board or whoever is in charge of giving out PE stamps would be culpable in a case of a bad design by a PE. I think NABCEP should provide a stamp with the certificated member's # on it. All it would do is identify them as a NABCEP member. My understanding is that NABCEP was formed to help the general public distinguish between fly by nights and real RE professionals. A stamp would help do that. If the city of xyz decides that they've seen a lot of good work from NABCEP members and that NABCEP certification is good enough for them, what's wrong with that? Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. NABCEP PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp
The difference is that comparing the PE exam to the NABCEP exam is like comparing brain surgeon board certification for a doctor to a first aid course exam. PE is not only a professional exam, it also holds legal status in all 50 states, whereas the NABCEP exam does not. From: Greg Egan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:36 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp Bill Peter, Okay, if I have a PE Stamp that means I went to school and worked under a mentor for an amount of time to qualify for the PE exam. Passed the exam and I got my stamp. If I have NABCEP certification that means I worked installing solar electric systems (in my case) for an amount of time and /or went to school to qualify for the NABCEP exam and passed the test. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference here. If NABCEP provided a stamp to it's members that they could use to stamp drawings all it would show is that someone who passed the NABCEP exam reviewed the design and hung his or her name on the job. I don't see where NABCEP would be responsible for the design anymore than the PE board or whoever is in charge of giving out PE stamps would be culpable in a case of a bad design by a PE. I think NABCEP should provide a stamp with the certificated member's # on it. All it would do is identify them as a NABCEP member. My understanding is that NABCEP was formed to help the general public distinguish between fly by nights and real RE professionals. A stamp would help do that. If the city of xyz decides that they've seen a lot of good work from NABCEP members and that NABCEP certification is good enough for them, what's wrong with that? Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. NABCEP PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity from the sun since 1979 Online Solar Store Free Solar Discussion Forum ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp
Greg, I think some states require designers to have a professional engineering license. I know some clients require a licensed engineer with professional liability insurance. You can be rightly proud of your NABCEP certification. It is good that NABCEP supports the practitioner concept and encourages life-long learning, but Bill Brooks is right. What out for slippery slopes. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Greg Egan To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:36 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp Bill Peter, Okay, if I have a PE Stamp that means I went to school and worked under a mentor for an amount of time to qualify for the PE exam. Passed the exam and I got my stamp. If I have NABCEP certification that means I worked installing solar electric systems (in my case) for an amount of time and /or went to school to qualify for the NABCEP exam and passed the test. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference here. If NABCEP provided a stamp to it's members that they could use to stamp drawings all it would show is that someone who passed the NABCEP exam reviewed the design and hung his or her name on the job. I don't see where NABCEP would be responsible for the design anymore than the PE board or whoever is in charge of giving out PE stamps would be culpable in a case of a bad design by a PE. I think NABCEP should provide a stamp with the certificated member's # on it. All it would do is identify them as a NABCEP member. My understanding is that NABCEP was formed to help the general public distinguish between fly by nights and real RE professionals. A stamp would help do that. If the city of xyz decides that they've seen a lot of good work from NABCEP members and that NABCEP certification is good enough for them, what's wrong with that? Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. NABCEP PV Installer -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp
Sorry If I'm off base a bit here. I'm hoping it's sorta related. I was recently asked to meet with a "Staff Architect", to field questions about installing a PV array on a public building. Yes, in all fairness I was deliberately vague about some design specifics (I've lost too many designs to the "Bidding Process"). He did ask about my Credentials and nodded in approval (Or so I thought) when I mentioned NABCEP certification. (I didn't feel I needed to mention any other Degrees or Certifications)..The following is just one of the "Issues" in his 5 page report: B. Electrical Design 1. In concept, the idea of plugging the PV array into the building's electrical system and watching the electric meter run backwards is accurate. However, this needs to be designed carefully by someone who knows what the electrical characteristics of the PV system will be and who can insure that the connections are made properly, that the power coming from existing building the panels is in sync with the 3 phase power in the building, who can select the appropriate circuit breaker for the circuit being used for the connection and who can think through the rest of the system to make sure that we don't damage some other aspect of the existing electrical system. 2. When I asked if there were any possibility that the power coming from the PV array might damage other electrical devices in the building the answer was "no". I'd get that in writing. 3. Again, one option would be to return to the original electrical engineer that designed the building and have them engineer the connections of new to old.I guess it's fair to say I'm new to the political end of running a business.. but more and more I see this kind of posturing from the Vultures circling the Renewable Energy Industry. It's even more hurtful when you see this crap from "Professional" Firms.Rant Off.. dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44 ---- Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp From: "Warren Lauzon" war...@wind-sun.com Date: Thu, March 31, 2011 2:27 pm To: "RE-wrenches" re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org The difference is that comparing the PE exam to the NABCEP exam is like comparing brain surgeon board certification for a doctor to a first aid course exam. PE is not only a professional exam, it also holds legal status in all 50 states, whereas the NABCEP exam does not. From: Greg Egan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:36 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp Bill Peter,Okay, if I have a PE Stamp that means I went to school and worked under a mentor for an amount of time to qualify for the PE exam. Passed the exam and I got my stamp. If I have NABCEP certification that means I worked installing solar electric systems (in my case) for an amount of time and /or went to school to qualify for the NABCEP exam and passed the test. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference here. If NABCEP provided a stamp to it's members that they could use to stamp drawings all it would show is that someone who passed the NABCEP exam reviewed the design and hung his or her name on the job. I don't see where NABCEP would be responsible for the design anymore than the PE board or whoever is in charge of giving out PE stamps would be culpable in a case of a bad design by a PE.I think NABCEP should provide a stamp with the certificated member's # on it. All it would do is identify them as a NABCEP member. My understanding is that NABCEP was formed to help the general public distinguish between fly by nights and real RE professionals. A stamp would help do that. If the city of xyz decides that they've seen a lot of good work from NABCEP members and that NABCEP certification is good enough for them, what's wrong with that?Greg EganRemote Power Inc.NABCEP PV Installer ___ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp
Either way both are just tests, and both are just there solely for the formality of AHJ. I've done enough hiring of engineers to be thoroughly unconvinced any testing, certification, GPA, degree level makes any indication of level of ability. I remember a time a few years back when i hired a 2nd year sophomore over a phD candidate - because he was better in every way. I don't know exactly what the P.E. rate amongst E.E.s is, but is way less than 1% - and there is a reason. The E.E. field has largely driven by innovation, not putting in you dues. Compounding that problem, since there are so few EE PEs, there is a very small chance to get a PE, even if you took your FE exam - because there so few to work under. So I don't see anything about a PE that is so meaningful, just means you happened on a 1-in-100 boss out of college that had a PE, and worked for him/her for 3 years. Meaningless. Only the AHJ cares. Troy Warren Lauzon wrote: The difference is that comparing the PE exam to the NABCEP exam is like comparing brain surgeon board certification for a doctor to a first aid course exam. PE is not only a professional exam, it also holds legal status in all 50 states, whereas the NABCEP exam does not. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp
I am wondering if anyone has had a NABCEP stamp made to stamp plans. I have a city agency who is comfortable with the NABCEP certification as a qualification, but would like to see a stamp. Has anyone out there done this? Troy ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp
Troy - I have not encountered this before but would you mind sharing what city agency you are refering to? NABCEP is always interested in hearing about these types of unconventional uses of the certification. For a brighter energy future, Andrew Truitt Principal Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting NABCEP Certified PV Installer™ (ID# 032407-66) (202) 486-7507 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-truitt/8/622/713 [image: 24 copy.jpg] Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless! ~William McDonough On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Troy Harvey tahar...@heliocentric.orgwrote: I am wondering if anyone has had a NABCEP stamp made to stamp plans. I have a city agency who is comfortable with the NABCEP certification as a qualification, but would like to see a stamp. Has anyone out there done this? Troy ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org 24 copy.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp
Troy, On Mar 30, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Troy Harvey wrote: I am wondering if anyone has had a NABCEP stamp made to stamp plans. I have a city agency who is comfortable with the NABCEP certification as a qualification, but would like to see a stamp. Has anyone out there done this? Troy I'm with Andrew here. If a NABCEP stamp of some kind makes the city happy and greases your permit approval, that's OK. If it is a city requirement, then we'd sure like to know about that. IF you do have one made, please remember to follow the NABCEP guidelines as to the use of our Mark. IE, your name -not the company name and not nothing- has to appear next to the Mark. Cheers, bob-O ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp
I hate to mention the evil insurance industry. However, a stamp implies some professional liability insurance to me. There are other professional membership organizations (RESNET) that have developed a tailored professional liability insurance package for its credentialed members with a preferred vendor. Is NABCEP looking toward this? I do not know if there is a need, but may be an advantage under certain circumstances. Peace, Erika REpower SOLUTIONS www.repowersolutions.com P: 216.268.2275 C: 216.402.4458 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bob-O Schultze Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [SPAM] Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp Troy, On Mar 30, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Troy Harvey wrote: I am wondering if anyone has had a NABCEP stamp made to stamp plans. I have a city agency who is comfortable with the NABCEP certification as a qualification, but would like to see a stamp. Has anyone out there done this? Troy I'm with Andrew here. If a NABCEP stamp of some kind makes the city happy and greases your permit approval, that's OK. If it is a city requirement, then we'd sure like to know about that. IF you do have one made, please remember to follow the NABCEP guidelines as to the use of our Mark. IE, your name -not the company name and not nothing- has to appear next to the Mark. Cheers, bob-O ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp
Andrew and Troy, While I can't speak for NABCEP, I would expect that NABCEP should be very opposed to this type of use of their logo. NABCEP does not certify the work that a NABCEP certificant does. They only certify that the installer has met the obligations for certification. There is a HUGE difference between the two. NABCEP cannot, and should not, be held accountable for work that someone does in the field. A contactor's work is covered by the state laws and the licenses required to perform that work in that state. Just because a local jurisdictions thinks that getting a certification from NABCEP means something to the installation, does not mean that the information should be on the plan set. Information about the certification of the installer should be provided separately. Don't make a stamp, whatever you do. Bill. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Truitt Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:57 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Stamp Troy - I have not encountered this before but would you mind sharing what city agency you are refering to? NABCEP is always interested in hearing about these types of unconventional uses of the certification. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
