Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes?
My vague recollection of a similar problem I saw 10 yrs ago was that the surges and sags of a balancing transformer like the T240 are greater than that of a true isolation transformer. Whereas the T240 has both primary and secondary sides sharing a neutral, the surge that the generator sees becomes too high. I recall we fixed this by using a 2400VA acme isolation transformer. Can’t really remember the engineering explanation, but you may want to explore this avenue. Mike Kocsmiersky Principal Spirit Solar Inc. From: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org [mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 6:50 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes? Hi Jay, The diversion load is AC, and controlled by the Aux output dump load function on the MX 60. The aux output triggers a relay that opens the 1000 W, space heater dump load Since this is an AC coupled system, the dump load is between the inverter and the Stirling generator, fed from the off grid service panel where the AC coupling takes place. The Stirling puts out close to 1000 W. When the Stirling is charging batteries, the FET board on the Outback is working hard, turning the AC into DC. When the batteries reach the programmed voltage level, the relay triggers and the power goes to an electric space heater. The inverter has little to do. A sketch of the setup is attached. The problem seems to occur when there is a change in the load. It can also be other loads that cause the Stirling to go into high voltage shutdown Thanks, Drake - Original Message - From: "RE-wrenches" To: "RE-wrenches" Cc: Sent: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 08:29:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes? Hi Drake, Can you explain the diversion load more. Dc or ac Size, Watts What type of load How is it turned on, off My reasoning is that you seem to point to a connection between diversion load and shut down. Thx Jay > On Mar 19, 2019, at 6:25 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > We have an Outback VFX3648 inverter AC coupled to a Stirling Generator. We > use an Outback autotransformer to get the 240 V needed to match the Stirling. > The Stirling generator must run continuously, as it is difficult to start up > after a shut down. > > The system works flawlessly for many hours. At some point, usually when the > dump load kicks on, the generator shuts down on a high voltage error. High > voltage is about 264 V. We have never seen voltage that high on the system. > > We replaced the control board on the inverter, and the output voltage appears > very stable. The Stirling people say that the Outback must be putting out > high voltage spikes that are so brief that we will not be able to see them > with a voltmeter. > > Can an Outback inverter create such spikes? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes?
Hello all, I work with speed drives, they are an inverter, an abrupt change in load will result in a voltage spike. I have never measured or even tried this event on an FX inverter but it would not surprise me. The inverter is taking load charging the battery then it changes to supplying load from the battery. Perhaps a ramp to load would prevent this from happening. Magnum used to have an AC dump load controller. Also check with Midnight as to a MOV that clips at 260 volts? On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 8:25 AM wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > We have an Outback VFX3648 inverter AC coupled to a Stirling Generator. We > use an Outback autotransformer to get the 240 V needed to match the > Stirling. The Stirling generator must run continuously, as it is difficult > to start up after a shut down. > > The system works flawlessly for many hours. At some point, usually when > the dump load kicks on, the generator shuts down on a high voltage error. > High voltage is about 264 V. We have never seen voltage that high on the > system. > > We replaced the control board on the inverter, and the output voltage > appears very stable. The Stirling people say that the Outback must be > putting out high voltage spikes that are so brief that we will not be able > to see them with a voltmeter. > > Can an Outback inverter create such spikes? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes?
Hi Jay, The diversion load is AC, and controlled by the Aux output dump load function on the MX 60. The aux output triggers a relay that opens the 1000 W, space heater dump load. Since this is an AC coupled system, the dump load is between the inverter and the Stirling generator, fed from the off grid service panel where the AC coupling takes place. The Stirling puts out close to 1000 W. When the Stirling is charging batteries, the FET board on the Outback is working hard, turning the AC into DC. When the batteries reach the programmed voltage level, the relay triggers and the power goes to an electric space heater. The inverter has little to do. A sketch of the setup is attached. The problem seems to occur when there is a change in the load. It can also be other loads that cause the Stirling to go into high voltage shutdown. Thanks, Drake - Original Message - From: "RE-wrenches" To:"RE-wrenches" Cc: Sent:Tue, 19 Mar 2019 08:29:33 -0700 Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes? Hi Drake, Can you explain the diversion load more. Dc or ac Size, Watts What type of load How is it turned on, off My reasoning is that you seem to point to a connection between diversion load and shut down. Thx Jay > On Mar 19, 2019, at 6:25 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > We have an Outback VFX3648 inverter AC coupled to a Stirling Generator. We use an Outback autotransformer to get the 240 V needed to match the Stirling. The Stirling generator must run continuously, as it is difficult to start up after a shut down. > > The system works flawlessly for many hours. At some point, usually when the dump load kicks on, the generator shuts down on a high voltage error. High voltage is about 264 V. We have never seen voltage that high on the system. > > We replaced the control board on the inverter, and the output voltage appears very stable. The Stirling people say that the Outback must be putting out high voltage spikes that are so brief that we will not be able to see them with a voltmeter. > > Can an Outback inverter create such spikes? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Stirling AC Coupling MC.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes?
Hi Drake, Can you explain the diversion load more. Dc or ac Size, Watts What type of load How is it turned on, off My reasoning is that you seem to point to a connection between diversion load and shut down. Thx Jay > On Mar 19, 2019, at 6:25 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > We have an Outback VFX3648 inverter AC coupled to a Stirling Generator. We > use an Outback autotransformer to get the 240 V needed to match the > Stirling. The Stirling generator must run continuously, as it is difficult to > start up after a shut down. > > The system works flawlessly for many hours. At some point, usually when the > dump load kicks on, the generator shuts down on a high voltage error. High > voltage is about 264 V. We have never seen voltage that high on the system. > > We replaced the control board on the inverter, and the output voltage appears > very stable. The Stirling people say that the Outback must be putting out > high voltage spikes that are so brief that we will not be able to see them > with a voltmeter. > > Can an Outback inverter create such spikes? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Outback Voltage Spikes?
Hello Wrenches, We have an Outback VFX3648 inverter AC coupled to a Stirling Generator. We use an Outback autotransformer to get the 240 V needed to match the Stirling. The Stirling generator must run continuously, as it is difficult to start up after a shut down. The system works flawlessly for many hours. At some point, usually when the dump load kicks on, the generator shuts down on a high voltage error. High voltage is about 264 V. We have never seen voltage that high on the system. We replaced the control board on the inverter, and the output voltage appears very stable. The Stirling people say that the Outback must be putting out high voltage spikes that are so brief that we will not be able to see them with a voltmeter. Can an Outback inverter create such spikes? Thanks, Drake ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
