Re: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question
Allan, According to Wikipedia, it is not a typo. It is, however, an excellent example of lousy technical writing / documentation. You are correct to zero in on it What Outback seems to have done, is switch from a four line drawing on the input side of the circuit to a one line drawing on the output. Bad. And, it was a confusing drawing to begin with. However, I think 120VAC to Neutral was correctly meant to mean, as measured from that point to the neutral bar. Your proposed 120VAC output to Inverter is much better. Allow me to digress point out, most consumers, homeowners, tradesmen, and engineers only read the owners manuals when forced to. One reason, perhaps, the manuals, more often than not, suck. A pet peeve of mine. Great documentation takes time and talent. Both cost real money. I agree. Your solution works. It really is that simple. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question
I'd just launder the tool thru the sw wid another X240 on its own switch. db Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question From: Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com Date: Sat, September 7, 2013 2:56 pm To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Wrenches, Here's a small issue on which I need help. It concerns the best functional way to wire up an Outback PSX-240 balancing autotransformer for a specific purpose. I have somehow succeeded in transferring the wiring diagram on page 6 of Outback's PSX-240 installation manual into this message. This is for a step-down/generator balancing function. The situation: 8kW 240V AC generator serving an older system with a single Trace SW4024. The 240V from the generator enters the PSX240 as wired according to the diagram. The primary role of the generator is to provide occasional backup charging to the batteries through the inverter. The specific issue is that the client also wants 240V AC from the generator to be available to a single shop receptacle to run a stationary woodworking tool. The generator is not large enough to both run the tool and charge at full (33A @120V AC / 120A @24V DC) AC2 amps in setting, and we don't want to reduce the charge rate, as it's currently ideal for the new HUP industrial flooded batteries. We initially tapped 240V off of the generator feed ahead of the 25A two-pole breaker in the PSX-240. We instructed the customer to turn off this 25A breaker when using the power tool (the tool circuit has its own separate two-pole breaker). What we discovered, which is obvious in hindsight, is that one of the generator's 120V AC legs continues to feed the inverter AC2 input with the breaker off. This causes the inverter to try to draw too much current from that AC generator leg only. My question: could I solve this by simply moving the 120VAC to Neutral output feed (now tapped off of L2) shown on the drawing below to the other side of the 25A circuit breaker; that is, to point 4 in the drawing? It seems to me that this would work, and would not intrinsically overload either of the two 25A poles of the breaker. The 120V AC output to the inverter could in theory draw 50A; 25A from L2 and 25A through the windings of the transformer. But this solution seems almost too simple. What am I missing, please? -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question
I've got a similar situation with an old SW-4024. The house is wired entirely for 120vac and is still an off-grid home but at some point the new owners received grid power which they want to use as a back-up. They also want to add a back-up 240vac genny. At first I thought of doing as Dan suggest, using two X240's. But as I mulled over the design I decided to use a single manual transfer switch and one X240. The transfer switch is 1/2 the price of the 2nd PSX240. Thus on the primary of the transfer switch will be either the grid or genny with the secondary side of the switch to be the PSX240. I'm doing the upgrade next week. Christopher -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of d...@foxfire-energy.com Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 16:00 To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question I'd just launder the tool thru the sw wid another X240 on its own switch. db Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question From: Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com Date: Sat, September 7, 2013 2:56 pm To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Wrenches, Here's a small issue on which I need help. It concerns the best functional way to wire up an Outback PSX-240 balancing autotransformer for a specific purpose. I have somehow succeeded in transferring the wiring diagram on page 6 of Outback's PSX-240 installation manual into this message. This is for a step-down/generator balancing function. The situation: 8kW 240V AC generator serving an older system with a single Trace SW4024. The 240V from the generator enters the PSX240 as wired according to the diagram. The primary role of the generator is to provide occasional backup charging to the batteries through the inverter. The specific issue is that the client also wants 240V AC from the generator to be available to a single shop receptacle to run a stationary woodworking tool. The generator is not large enough to both run the tool and charge at full (33A @120V AC / 120A @24V DC) AC2 amps in setting, and we don't want to reduce the charge rate, as it's currently ideal for the new HUP industrial flooded batteries. We initially tapped 240V off of the generator feed ahead of the 25A two-pole breaker in the PSX-240. We instructed the customer to turn off this 25A breaker when using the power tool (the tool circuit has its own separate two-pole breaker). What we discovered, which is obvious in hindsight, is that one of the generator's 120V AC legs continues to feed the inverter AC2 input with the breaker off. This causes the inverter to try to draw too much current from that AC generator leg only. My question: could I solve this by simply moving the 120VAC to Neutral output feed (now tapped off of L2) shown on the drawing below to the other side of the 25A circuit breaker; that is, to point 4 in the drawing? It seems to me that this would work, and would not intrinsically overload either of the two 25A poles of the breaker. The 120V AC output to the inverter could in theory draw 50A; 25A from L2 and 25A through the windings of the transformer. But this solution seems almost too simple. What am I missing, please? -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
Re: [RE-wrenches] PSX-240 wiring question
Hi Allan I have had to address this issue before. My two choices are either a mechanical disconnect or a relay ahead of the Tformer. Whether its a cool custom interlock,simple switch or relay, you get the fun call on that one. And yes if there was room for an addition 60 amp breaker in the box it would really help. Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Sep 7, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: Wrenches, Here's a small issue on which I need help. It concerns the best functional way to wire up an Outback PSX-240 balancing autotransformer for a specific purpose. I have somehow succeeded in transferring the wiring diagram on page 6 of Outback's PSX-240 installation manual into this message. This is for a step-down/generator balancing function. The situation: 8kW 240V AC generator serving an older system with a single Trace SW4024. The 240V from the generator enters the PSX240 as wired according to the diagram. The primary role of the generator is to provide occasional backup charging to the batteries through the inverter. The specific issue is that the client also wants 240V AC from the generator to be available to a single shop receptacle to run a stationary woodworking tool. The generator is not large enough to both run the tool and charge at full (33A @120V AC / 120A @24V DC) AC2 amps in setting, and we don't want to reduce the charge rate, as it's currently ideal for the new HUP industrial flooded batteries. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
