Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[jay]

HI Drake,

Yes the issue with rebulk setting effects both AGS and manual.  

Raise it way up and  they won’t have any issues with it not charging


jay

> On Jan 9, 2021, at 8:02 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
> 
> Jay,
> 
> The generator is manual start.
> 
> Drake
> 
> ---
> 
> 
> On 2021-01-08 15:39, Jay wrote:
>> Is it ags start and is it starting on volts or %, or load?
>>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>>  wrote:
>>> You said both, it will go into absorb for an hour only and it will net go
>>> into absorb. Which one please?
>>> Is there an AGS?
>>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>>> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
>>> text 209 813 0060
 On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:33:56 -0500, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
 wrote:
 Hello Wrenches,
 An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked
 flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go
 into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was
 previously to absorb for 2 hours.
 He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The
 inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.
 During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about
 80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.
 I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware
 problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by
 the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?
 Thank you,
 Drake
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[drake . chamberlin]

Jay,

The generator is manual start.

Drake

---


On 2021-01-08 15:39, Jay wrote:

Is it ags start and is it starting on volts or %, or load?


On Jan 8, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
 wrote:


You said both, it will go into absorb for an hour only and it will 
net go

into absorb. Which one please?

Is there an AGS?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:33:56 -0500, 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org

wrote:
Hello Wrenches,

An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has 
worked



flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go
into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was
previously to absorb for 2 hours.

He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The
inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.

During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to 
about



80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.

I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware
problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by
the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?

Thank you,

Drake

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[frenergy]

The only thing I would add to William's list of things to do to solve 
this issue is that there is a proper sequence in shutting down and 
rebooting the inverter, found in Outback  docs.  There is also firmware 
for the HUB but not sure if that would help or is necessary in this 
situation.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 1/8/2021 11:54 AM, William Miller wrote:


Drake:

I would suggest the following course of action:

1.Reboot Mate

2.Reboot inverter

3.Reset all equipment to factory defaults and manually reprogram each item

4.Update Mate Firmware

5.Update Inverter Firmware.

We have solved mystery Radian problems with a firmware update.

Good luck!

William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com>

CA Lic. 773985

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org 
<mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>

Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 10:34 AM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>

Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

Hello Wrenches,

An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked

flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go

into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was

previously to absorb for 2 hours.

He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The

inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.

During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about

80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.

I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware

problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by

the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?

Thank you,

Drake



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[Steve Higgins]

I don't know if this will help, but there is a setting under the AGS menus
called DC Generator.

There is DC Absrob timer and DC Absrob Votlage.

It's imperative that this is left alone if you are using an AC source, I
find many systems that are doing this the customer or installer freaked out
because the DC Genset Voltage is set at the default of 76 volts.

Make sure that this setting is back to 76 volts and left alone if you are
using an AC Generator.

Even if this is set to No and you have the voltage set too low it will mess
with your absorb timers.


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
<#SignatureSanitizer_SafeHtmlFilter_> 
 






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On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:17 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> Same page with you Jay, as usual...
>
> Does the battery system go to absorb with solar still even if it is
> cloudy?  Maybe a bad battery?   Tis the season!
> Can the user go thru the set-points and make sure nothing has changed? Gen
> sets can do weird surges that can corrupt settings.
>
> If he has to leave, shut down the inverter? Is that an option? It is only
> a week right.
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsola
> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 13:39:40 -0700, Jay  wrote:
> > Is it ags start and is it starting on volts or %, or load?
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 8, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> You said both, it will go into absorb for an hour only and it will net
> >> go
> >> into absorb. Which one please?
> >>
> >> Is there an AGS?
> >>
> >>
> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> >> "we go where powerlines don't"
> >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
> >> text 209 813 0060
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:33:56 -0500,
> drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
> >>> wrote:
> >>> Hello Wrenches,
> >>>
> >>> An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has
> worked
> >>
> >>> flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go
> >>> into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was
> >>> previously to absorb for 2 hours.
> >>>
> >>> He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The
> >>> inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.
> >>>
> >>> During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to
> about
> >>
> >>> 80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.
> >>>
> >>> I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware
> >>> problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by
> >>> the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?
> >>>
> >>> Thank you,
> >>>
> >>> Drake
> >> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[jay]

Lones is correct as usual

The newer Mate3 when battery charging with the generator has to have time below 
rebuik or it won’t work.

So your options are to raise the rebulk voltage, this allows more time below 
the rebulk, which allows for a complete charge.  
This situation is especially often when someone is trying to keep their 
batteries at a higher SOC.  

So again, raise the rebulk voltage, it doesn’t have any impact on offgrid 
systems.  

It will fix the problem.

jay

> On Jan 8, 2021, at 12:54 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Drake:
>  
> I would suggest the following course of action:
>  
> 1.  Reboot Mate
> 2.  Reboot inverter 
> 3.  Reset all equipment to factory defaults and manually reprogram each 
> item
> 4.  Update Mate Firmware
> 5.  Update Inverter Firmware.
>  
> We have solved mystery Radian problems with a firmware update.
>  
> Good luck!
>  
> William Miller
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> CA Lic. 773985
>  
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of 
> drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org 
> <mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 10:34 AM
> To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day
>  
> Hello Wrenches,
>  
> An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked
> flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go
> into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was
> previously to absorb for 2 hours.
>  
> He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The
> inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.
>  
> During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about
> 80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.
>  
> I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware
> problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by
> the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?
>  
> Thank you,
>  
> Drake
>  
> --
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[jay]

Yes SOC is a calculation and with proper setup it works perfectly.  
This includes changes over its lifespan etc.  

However one issue that I’ve found is if you tie the PV to the SOC it does set 
up problems and usually creates short cycling, sulfation and premature battery 
life.

The fix is:

Go to FLEXnet DC advanced Control
It defaults to:
Enable charge termination control Y

change that to N

That way if you are using OB charge controllers tied to the system via the HUB 
it will not allow the SOC/FLEXnet DC to stop the charge.
The CC will operate as to their own internal programing to absorb time, return 
amps etc.

Cheers

jay




> On Jan 8, 2021, at 4:03 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> I agree with William, SOC is just a calculation, that can change with 
> temperature, age of batteries, and even when the last full charge occurred. 
> We just had trouble with an inherited Sunny Island system that only allows 
> gen start settings based on SOC. The actual battery SOC didn't correspond to 
> the programming after a while, and the dumb thing would shut off due to low 
> voltage, BEFORE starting the generator.  Then being AC coupled, you also have 
> disabled the PV charging source.  Triggering gen start off SOC and having 
> your array AC coupled is a RECIPE for disaster, speaking of Cooks in the 
> Kitchen, William.
> 
>   Ray Walters
> 
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> On 1/8/21 4:24 PM, William Miller wrote:
>> Mick:
>>  
>> Here’s a thought:  If the system has an FNDC, the charging may be programmed 
>> to terminate at a specific SOC.  I have been told by OB tech support, and I 
>> believe this, that using SOC and battery voltage over time and/or charge 
>> taper to control charging is like the old adage, “too many cooks.”
>>  
>> My understanding is the best parameter for terminating an absorption charge 
>> is charge taper, if your system has this option.  Taper is the best 
>> indication of complete charging.  This is typically set at 3% of the 20 hour 
>> AH rating.  All other charge termination options should be disabled.  
>>  
>> Too many charge termination “cooks” may be the cause of your problem, Mick 
>> and the problem Drake posted I believe just today.
>>  
>> I have been meaning to write some thoughts on the very concept of SOC.  As I 
>> understand it, SOC is a calculated value, using AH in versus AH out and 
>> adjusted for charging efficiency.  I believe this process has a high 
>> probability for inaccuracy because the actual efficiency value is a moving 
>> target.  It changes with temperature, battery charge state, battery age and 
>> probably other factors.  This belief is reinforced by the fact all of these 
>> SOC measuring systems must have a built in recalibration that typically 
>> occurs when some voltage over time condition is met.  The default values for 
>> this reset to 100% SOC are deliberately too low to ensure calibration 
>> actually occurs, but it gives clients an inaccurate impression of when 
>> battery charging is fully accomplished.
>>  
>> Way too often I have seen clients manually terminate generator charging of a 
>> battery bank prematurely because they see the SOC is 100% and yet their 
>> generator is still consuming fuel and making noise, something they do not 
>> want to occur unless they know it is required.  This means batteries do not 
>> get the absorption time they need for a long life span.
>>  
>> I have contemplated discontinuing installation of FNDC units for this 
>> reason.  In fact, the only benefit I see to an FNDC unit is to allow battery 
>> parameter logging.  I tell my client to ignore any number followed by a % 
>> sign.  I am BCC-ing several clients on this post because I want them to have 
>> more background on why I say this.
>>  
>> I am interested in what others think about the benefit, or lack thereof, of 
>> using derived SOC values.
>>  
>> William
>>  
>> PS:  I would not assume a recently purchased system has the latest firmware.
>>  
>> Wm
>>  
>> Miller Solar
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>> 805-438-5600
>> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>  
>>  
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Mick Abraham
>> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 12:46 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day
>>  
>> Happy Friday, Mechanix~
>>  
>> Drake Chamberlin wrote about the Radian inverter that began running a "too 
&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[Ray]

I agree with William, SOC is just a calculation, that can change with 
temperature, age of batteries, and even when the last full charge 
occurred. We just had trouble with an inherited Sunny Island system that 
only allows gen start settings based on SOC. The actual battery SOC 
didn't correspond to the programming after a while, and the dumb thing 
would shut off due to low voltage, BEFORE starting the generator.  Then 
being AC coupled, you also have disabled the PV charging source.  
Triggering gen start off SOC and having your array AC coupled is a 
RECIPE for disaster, speaking of Cooks in the Kitchen, William.


  Ray Walters

Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 1/8/21 4:24 PM, William Miller wrote:


Mick:

Here’s a thought:  If the system has an FNDC, the charging may be 
programmed to terminate at a specific SOC.  I have been told by OB 
tech support, and I believe this, that using SOC and battery voltage 
over time and/or charge taper to control charging is like the old 
adage, “too many cooks.”


My understanding is the best parameter for terminating an absorption 
charge is charge taper, if your system has this option.  Taper is the 
best indication of complete charging. This is typically set at 3% of 
the 20 hour AH rating.  All other charge termination options should be 
disabled.


Too many charge termination “cooks” may be the cause of your problem, 
Mick and the problem Drake posted I believe just today.


I have been meaning to write some thoughts on the very concept of 
SOC.  As I understand it, SOC is a calculated value, using AH in 
versus AH out and adjusted for charging efficiency.  I believe this 
process has a high probability for inaccuracy because the actual 
efficiency value is a moving target.  It changes with temperature, 
battery charge state, battery age and probably other factors.  This 
belief is reinforced by the fact all of these SOC measuring systems 
must have a built in recalibration that typically occurs when some 
voltage over time condition is met.  The default values for this reset 
to 100% SOC are deliberately too low to ensure calibration actually 
occurs, but it gives clients an inaccurate impression of when battery 
charging is fully accomplished.


Way too often I have seen clients manually terminate generator 
charging of a battery bank prematurely because they see the SOC is 
100% and yet their generator is still consuming fuel and making noise, 
something they do not want to occur unless they know it is required.  
This means batteries do not get the absorption time they need for a 
long life span.


I have contemplated discontinuing installation of FNDC units for this 
reason.  In fact, the only benefit I see to an FNDC unit is to allow 
battery parameter logging.  I tell my client to ignore any number 
followed by a % sign.  I am BCC-ing several clients on this post 
because I want them to have more background on why I say this.


I am interested in what others think about the benefit, or lack 
thereof, of using derived SOC values.


William

PS: I would not assume a recently purchased system has the latest 
firmware.


Wm

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of 
*Mick Abraham

*Sent:* Friday, January 8, 2021 12:46 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

Happy Friday, Mechanix~

Drake Chamberlin wrote about the Radian inverter that began running a 
"too short" absorption interval after several years of normal 
operations. Drake said the possible culprit is inverter firmware per 
Outback; I wish to add a data point & follow up questions:


I sold an Outback SE-830BLU-300AFCI Systemedge Package--which includes 
Outback batteries & all for quick deployment--to a longtime retail 
client in the Autumn of 2020. Firmware seems likely to be the latest 
version on all components since it shipped from OB so recently. The 
client's internet service to the site was lost along with everything 
else in a CA wildfire--so I can't look in remotely & I can't 
physically travel to the site. He has much prior experience with 
inverter/chargers, off grid living etc. but he's new to the Radian, 
Mate3s, etc.


My off grid client reports his new Radian is shifting to float before 
the Absorption target voltage is even reached & the shift occurs 
around 56.1 volts battery voltage on the way up. The battery is cool, 
not warm. He's been through the menus & couldn't find a likely suspect 
for this behavior. The FM100 PV controller on the same system is able 
to push the battery to the absorption target then hang there as would 
be expected before it shifts to float. That's if the daylight lasts 
long enough, of course. As with Drake's client, my friend needs to be 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[William Miller]

Drake:



I would suggest the following course of action:



1.  Reboot Mate

2.  Reboot inverter

3.  Reset all equipment to factory defaults and manually reprogram each
item

4.  Update Mate Firmware

5.  Update Inverter Firmware.



We have solved mystery Radian problems with a firmware update.



Good luck!



William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985







-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 10:34 AM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day



Hello Wrenches,



An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked

flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go

into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was

previously to absorb for 2 hours.



He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The

inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.



During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about

80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.



I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware

problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by

the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?



Thank you,



Drake



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[Jay]

Is it ags start and is it starting on volts or %, or load?


> On Jan 8, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>  wrote:
> 
> You said both, it will go into absorb for an hour only and it will net go
> into absorb. Which one please?
> 
> Is there an AGS?
> 
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
> 
>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:33:56 -0500, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
>> wrote:
>> Hello Wrenches,
>> 
>> An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked
> 
>> flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go 
>> into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was 
>> previously to absorb for 2 hours.
>> 
>> He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The 
>> inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.
>> 
>> During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about
> 
>> 80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.
>> 
>> I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware 
>> problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by 
>> the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Drake
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[William Miller]

Mick:



Here’s a thought:  If the system has an FNDC, the charging may be
programmed to terminate at a specific SOC.  I have been told by OB tech
support, and I believe this, that using SOC and battery voltage over time
and/or charge taper to control charging is like the old adage, “too many
cooks.”



My understanding is the best parameter for terminating an absorption charge
is charge taper, if your system has this option.  Taper is the best
indication of complete charging.  This is typically set at 3% of the 20
hour AH rating.  All other charge termination options should be disabled.



Too many charge termination “cooks” may be the cause of your problem, Mick
and the problem Drake posted I believe just today.



I have been meaning to write some thoughts on the very concept of SOC.  As
I understand it, SOC is a calculated value, using AH in versus AH out and
adjusted for charging efficiency.  I believe this process has a high
probability for inaccuracy because the actual efficiency value is a moving
target.  It changes with temperature, battery charge state, battery age and
probably other factors.  This belief is reinforced by the fact all of these
SOC measuring systems must have a built in recalibration that typically
occurs when some voltage over time condition is met.  The default values
for this reset to 100% SOC are deliberately too low to ensure calibration
actually occurs, but it gives clients an inaccurate impression of when
battery charging is fully accomplished.



Way too often I have seen clients manually terminate generator charging of
a battery bank prematurely because they see the SOC is 100% and yet their
generator is still consuming fuel and making noise, something they do not
want to occur unless they know it is required.  This means batteries do not
get the absorption time they need for a long life span.



I have contemplated discontinuing installation of FNDC units for this
reason.  In fact, the only benefit I see to an FNDC unit is to allow
battery parameter logging.  I tell my client to ignore any number followed
by a % sign.  I am BCC-ing several clients on this post because I want them
to have more background on why I say this.



I am interested in what others think about the benefit, or lack thereof, of
using derived SOC values.



William



PS:  I would not assume a recently purchased system has the latest firmware.



Wm



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Mick Abraham
*Sent:* Friday, January 8, 2021 12:46 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day



Happy Friday, Mechanix~



Drake Chamberlin wrote about the Radian inverter that began running a "too
short" absorption interval after several years of normal operations. Drake
said the possible culprit is inverter firmware per Outback; I wish to add a
data point & follow up questions:



I sold an Outback SE-830BLU-300AFCI Systemedge Package--which includes
Outback batteries & all for quick deployment--to a longtime retail client
in the Autumn of 2020. Firmware seems likely to be the latest version on
all components since it shipped from OB so recently. The client's internet
service to the site was lost along with everything else in a CA
wildfire--so I can't look in remotely & I can't physically travel to the
site. He has much prior experience with inverter/chargers, off grid living
etc. but he's new to the Radian, Mate3s, etc.



My off grid client reports his new Radian is shifting to float before the
Absorption target voltage is even reached & the shift occurs around 56.1
volts battery voltage on the way up. The battery is cool, not warm. He's
been through the menus & couldn't find a likely suspect for this behavior.
The FM100 PV controller on the same system is able to push the battery to
the absorption target then hang there as would be expected before it shifts
to float. That's if the daylight lasts long enough, of course. As with
Drake's client, my friend needs to be able to pump the battery to a higher
state of charge with his generator than what he's getting. His upscale (but
lead acid) Outback BLU batteries we bought in the package seem at risk of
harm due to this problem--& I'm sure Drake has similar concerns. I asked
the client to reboot the generator AC (breaker off, then back on) to see if
he could push the battery closer to the absorb voltage that way but I am
still waiting for that answer.



Thanks to the clues & cues from Drake, I'll cut & paste this into a trouble
ticket with OB. While waiting for that to percolate through the system,
here's one more question for the hive mind:



* When a Systemedge Package is purchased complete with batteries & all, are
the chargers & the FNDC battery monitor already pre-programmed for the
battery type & size? Her

Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[drake . chamberlin]

It will initially go into absorb, but only stay there for 1 hour. He has 
tried to get it back in absorb by shutting the generator off.


He turns the generator back on, and it doesn't trigger an absorb charge.

The system will only take a charge from the generator for 1 hour each 
calendar day.


---


On 2021-01-08 15:10, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:
You said both, it will go into absorb for an hour only and it will net 
go

into absorb. Which one please?

Is there an AGS?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:33:56 -0500, 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org

wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has 
worked



flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go
into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was
previously to absorb for 2 hours.

He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The
inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.

During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to 
about



80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.

I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware
problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by
the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?

Thank you,

Drake

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[Tuss, Lones]

Hello Drake
Have the customer initiate a new bulk cycle from the Mate3.
Do this by
Pressing the Charger button on the Mate3
Select Bulk Charge then Start Bulk.
This will initiate a full Bulk/Absorb Cycle as programmed in the inverter.
If the Absorb time is set to 2 hours that is what will happen.

By way of explanation the time on the absorb cycle is incremented up from zero 
when the dc battery voltage is at or below the re-bulk voltage as programmed in 
the inverter.
 So if the batteries were at or below re-bulk for 1 hour that is all the time 
that was incremented back onto the absorb timer.




-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 10:34 AM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

Hello Wrenches,

An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked 
flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go into 
absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was previously to 
absorb for 2 hours.

He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The inverter will 
connect, but not go into absorb.

During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about
80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.

I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware problem. As it 
is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by the list. Does FW this 
seem like the issue?

Thank you,

Drake

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Same page with you Jay, as usual...

Does the battery system go to absorb with solar still even if it is
cloudy?  Maybe a bad battery?   Tis the season!
Can the user go thru the set-points and make sure nothing has changed? Gen
sets can do weird surges that can corrupt settings.

If he has to leave, shut down the inverter? Is that an option? It is only
a week right.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsola
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 13:39:40 -0700, Jay  wrote:
> Is it ags start and is it starting on volts or %, or load?
> 
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You said both, it will go into absorb for an hour only and it will net
>> go
>> into absorb. Which one please?
>> 
>> Is there an AGS?
>> 
>> 
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
>> text 209 813 0060
>> 
>>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:33:56 -0500,
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello Wrenches,
>>> 
>>> An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has
worked
>> 
>>> flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go 
>>> into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was 
>>> previously to absorb for 2 hours.
>>> 
>>> He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The 
>>> inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.
>>> 
>>> During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to
about
>> 
>>> 80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.
>>> 
>>> I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware 
>>> problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by 
>>> the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Drake
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[RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[Mick Abraham]

Happy Friday, Mechanix~

Drake Chamberlin wrote about the Radian inverter that began running a "too
short" absorption interval after several years of normal operations. Drake
said the possible culprit is inverter firmware per Outback; I wish to add a
data point & follow up questions:

I sold an Outback SE-830BLU-300AFCI Systemedge Package--which includes
Outback batteries & all for quick deployment--to a longtime retail client
in the Autumn of 2020. Firmware seems likely to be the latest version on
all components since it shipped from OB so recently. The client's internet
service to the site was lost along with everything else in a CA
wildfire--so I can't look in remotely & I can't physically travel to the
site. He has much prior experience with inverter/chargers, off grid living
etc. but he's new to the Radian, Mate3s, etc.

My off grid client reports his new Radian is shifting to float before the
Absorption target voltage is even reached & the shift occurs around 56.1
volts battery voltage on the way up. The battery is cool, not warm. He's
been through the menus & couldn't find a likely suspect for this behavior.
The FM100 PV controller on the same system is able to push the battery to
the absorption target then hang there as would be expected before it shifts
to float. That's if the daylight lasts long enough, of course. As with
Drake's client, my friend needs to be able to pump the battery to a higher
state of charge with his generator than what he's getting. His upscale (but
lead acid) Outback BLU batteries we bought in the package seem at risk of
harm due to this problem--& I'm sure Drake has similar concerns. I asked
the client to reboot the generator AC (breaker off, then back on) to see if
he could push the battery closer to the absorb voltage that way but I am
still waiting for that answer.

Thanks to the clues & cues from Drake, I'll cut & paste this into a trouble
ticket with OB. While waiting for that to percolate through the system,
here's one more question for the hive mind:

* When a Systemedge Package is purchased complete with batteries & all, are
the chargers & the FNDC battery monitor already pre-programmed for the
battery type & size? Here's hoping, and as always, the Wrench List is the
Bomb!

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Landline: 970-731-4675
Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
ᐧ
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

You said both, it will go into absorb for an hour only and it will net go
into absorb. Which one please?

Is there an AGS?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 13:33:56 -0500, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked

> flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go 
> into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was 
> previously to absorb for 2 hours.
> 
> He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The 
> inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.
> 
> During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about

> 80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.
> 
> I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware 
> problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by 
> the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Drake
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[RE-wrenches] Radian Charges 1 hour per calendar day

[drake . chamberlin]

Hello Wrenches,

An off grid, Radian / Mate 3 system we set up some years back has worked 
flawlessly. The client is now reporting that his system will only go 
into absorption charge for 1 hour per calendar day. The setting was 
previously to absorb for 2 hours.


He has tried shutting off the generator and then restarting. The 
inverter will connect, but not go into absorb.


During this cloudy period, he is only able to get the batteries to about 
80 percent before he needs to leave the site for a week or so.


I finally go through to Outback, and they think it is a Firmware 
problem. As it is a long drive out, it seems worth while to run it by 
the list. Does FW this seem like the issue?


Thank you,

Drake

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