Re: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING
I'm also testing the Envi and so far, I have identified 2 problems. The first is that it does not show you kilowatt hours, only cumulative cost. The second is that the power display is called "instantaneous energy." Isn't that an awful lot like power? ;-) So far, I'm underwhelmed by the Envi Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV& wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. === The 6th Annual Small Wind Conference A Gathering of small wind industry stakeholders June 15 and 16, 2010 Stevens Point, Wisconsin i...@smallwindconference.com http://www.smallwindconference.com On 5/21/2010 10:17 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: We have had serious interference issues with TED installations. One small office was completely unable to transmit MTU->gateway signals. TED tech support just blamed it on interference from fluorescent lights and UPS systems. I would say their tech support leaves a lot to be desired, although it is easy to get them on the line. I just think the product is inherently problematic, and there is not much they can do to assist. We were unable to isolate any circuits that were causing the interference. The same unit worked perfectly at another location. On a larger home, it took hours of trial and error to find a suitable gateway location (especially given that it needs to be close to a LAN connection). It's really hard to sell a product when you have to tell customers that it may or may not work in their home/business. And wasting time trying it, only to fail is time/money spent. We have been evaluating the Envi as an alternative. It is completely wireless and can monitor up to 9 circuits with the same base. The web interface is not as robust, and the MTUs are insanely huge, but it does have many advantages (and it costs less). The Google Powermeter is pretty lame. It does not provide the granularity that we need to make useful analyses. Hopefully they update and improve the product. Finally, I am not convinced about the accuracy of any of these devices. Under normal conditions, the Envi seems to read low, the TED seems to read high. At very low current, the opposite is true. Each one seems to have a sweet spot for accuracy. Strangely enough, although instantaneous readings often do not appear right, our TED test unit matched our meter over the last two months within the specs of 2% error. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar http://fafcosolar.com -Original Message- Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 12:04:07 -0700 From: i2p To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING Message-ID:<930bbe08.6c44.43d1.a848.110bcbdff...@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I was intrigued by a previous thread on Google Powermeter and the TED 5000 and tried to setup on two system. In both cases, they did not work. ?I know they were installed correctly and factory support has me moving wires, getting noise filters, using different branch circuits, etc. In other word they make it my problem. Their out is "you have too much noise". Who else has given the TED a try and what are your results? At this point no comment on Google Power meter since I have not gotten to that point in the setup yet. ?My suspicion is the TED is not up to speed design wise.? Don Lowerburg Offline Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options& settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules& etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING
We have had serious interference issues with TED installations. One small office was completely unable to transmit MTU->gateway signals. TED tech support just blamed it on interference from fluorescent lights and UPS systems. I would say their tech support leaves a lot to be desired, although it is easy to get them on the line. I just think the product is inherently problematic, and there is not much they can do to assist. We were unable to isolate any circuits that were causing the interference. The same unit worked perfectly at another location. On a larger home, it took hours of trial and error to find a suitable gateway location (especially given that it needs to be close to a LAN connection). It's really hard to sell a product when you have to tell customers that it may or may not work in their home/business. And wasting time trying it, only to fail is time/money spent. We have been evaluating the Envi as an alternative. It is completely wireless and can monitor up to 9 circuits with the same base. The web interface is not as robust, and the MTUs are insanely huge, but it does have many advantages (and it costs less). The Google Powermeter is pretty lame. It does not provide the granularity that we need to make useful analyses. Hopefully they update and improve the product. Finally, I am not convinced about the accuracy of any of these devices. Under normal conditions, the Envi seems to read low, the TED seems to read high. At very low current, the opposite is true. Each one seems to have a sweet spot for accuracy. Strangely enough, although instantaneous readings often do not appear right, our TED test unit matched our meter over the last two months within the specs of 2% error. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar http://fafcosolar.com -Original Message- Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 12:04:07 -0700 From: i2p To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING Message-ID: <930bbe08.6c44.43d1.a848.110bcbdff...@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I was intrigued by a previous thread on Google Powermeter and the TED 5000 and tried to setup on two system. In both cases, they did not work. ?I know they were installed correctly and factory support has me moving wires, getting noise filters, using different branch circuits, etc. In other word they make it my problem. Their out is "you have too much noise". Who else has given the TED a try and what are your results? At this point no comment on Google Power meter since I have not gotten to that point in the setup yet. ?My suspicion is the TED is not up to speed design wise.? Don Lowerburg Offline Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING
I would say on TED, which i have a limited exposure to, that they need to do some real work on their documentation because it took me a long time to find their "firmware" update for mac installation, among others, and wow, providing a 3 inch cd rom which is un-usable on most computers instead of your standard 6 inch CD is problematic to say the least. Also, it seems they are getting a lot of tech calls and the guy i deal with hung up on me when I said I was installing on a mac, and took a quite abrupt attitude in the next call for the whole session, which didnt make me feel like it is a very professional solution. It is also problematic in my opinion to have that type of communication on a piece of gear that is likely right by a computer, which will have a power strip full of switching power supplies. so those are minor gripes which i hope they hear about, but what is pretty major, and I havent found any confirmation of this, is that the rumor mill told me that their CTs lost their UL listing. Has anyone else heard that, or am I wrong? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING
Ironically as I was looking through my TED 5000 package this thread came through. I am looking to use the TED for data logging for an off grid project, and plan on connecting a computer directly to the Gateway, as the client doesn't have internet access. I hope to use the information for system sizing. Have any of you found the logging to be unreliable?? There is no display involved, and loads are powered by a bit of solar, but mostly generator. Jay Pozner Nunatak AES On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Glenn Burt wrote: > As you know, the TED uses a Power Line Carrier communications scheme > where data is impressed on the 60Hz AC waveform for distribution throughout > the house. There are many pitfalls in this method of data comms, but it can > be done and be reliable. > > > > That being said here is my experience with the TED – I have the previous > generation (1000) in my house and have had it for a few years now. It works > well about 80% of the time. It seems to lose communications with the > transducer in the AC load center when a few different circuits in my house > are active – a 3 bulb under cabinet light in the kitchen for example. It > does seem to regain communications within a half hour of the circuit being > turned off. > > > > We have a solar customer that installed a 5000 on his house for an > inexpensive net meter monitor. I happened to visit him last week to install > an SMA Sunny Beam with BlueTooth on his inverters. He told me his experience > with the TED was very similar to mine, it would lose communications with the > display at unpredictable times. > > > > So reliable? Not in my experience. Inexpensive? Yes. > > > > YMMV > > -Glenn Burt > > > > *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: > re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *i2p > *Sent:* Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:04 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING > > > > > > I was intrigued by a previous thread on Google Powermeter and the TED 5000 > and tried to setup on two system. > > > > In both cases, they did not work. I know they were installed correctly and > factory support has me moving wires, getting noise filters, using different > branch circuits, etc. In other word they make it my problem. Their out is > "you have too much noise". > > > > Who else has given the TED a try and what are your results? At this point > no comment on Google Power meter since I have not gotten to that point in > the setup yet. My suspicion is the TED is not up to speed design wise. > > > > Don Lowerburg > > Offline Solar > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING
As you know, the TED uses a Power Line Carrier communications scheme where data is impressed on the 60Hz AC waveform for distribution throughout the house. There are many pitfalls in this method of data comms, but it can be done and be reliable. That being said here is my experience with the TED - I have the previous generation (1000) in my house and have had it for a few years now. It works well about 80% of the time. It seems to lose communications with the transducer in the AC load center when a few different circuits in my house are active - a 3 bulb under cabinet light in the kitchen for example. It does seem to regain communications within a half hour of the circuit being turned off. We have a solar customer that installed a 5000 on his house for an inexpensive net meter monitor. I happened to visit him last week to install an SMA Sunny Beam with BlueTooth on his inverters. He told me his experience with the TED was very similar to mine, it would lose communications with the display at unpredictable times. So reliable? Not in my experience. Inexpensive? Yes. YMMV -Glenn Burt From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of i2p Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:04 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING I was intrigued by a previous thread on Google Powermeter and the TED 5000 and tried to setup on two system. In both cases, they did not work. I know they were installed correctly and factory support has me moving wires, getting noise filters, using different branch circuits, etc. In other word they make it my problem. Their out is "you have too much noise". Who else has given the TED a try and what are your results? At this point no comment on Google Power meter since I have not gotten to that point in the setup yet. My suspicion is the TED is not up to speed design wise. Don Lowerburg Offline Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING
I was intrigued by a previous thread on Google Powermeter and the TED 5000 and tried to setup on two system. In both cases, they did not work. I know they were installed correctly and factory support has me moving wires, getting noise filters, using different branch circuits, etc. In other word they make it my problem. Their out is "you have too much noise". Who else has given the TED a try and what are your results? At this point no comment on Google Power meter since I have not gotten to that point in the setup yet. My suspicion is the TED is not up to speed design wise. Don Lowerburg Offline Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
