Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Kent via RE-wrenches]

Ray,

Thanks for the clarification on the photo. Years ago Solar World stopped 
making modules with the metal strip on the frame for back mounting; 
folks complained and they brought back the provision for back mounting. 
But as you say the frames are very thin these days and the module area 
is huge - especially compared to the 75 watt modules I started with.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 3/10/2024 1:14 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


That's just distortion in the image, from when I zoomed and cropped 
it.  Its module frame direct to the 2" angle aluminum support rail. 
Nothing in between.  High winds ripped two other modules completely 
off the rack leaving all the hardware still attached with a bit of 
module frame still under the washers .


This is on a mountain top in Wyoming.   Believe me, when I tell you 
that bottom mounting is no longer a safe method with today's big 
modules, at least not in high wind situations (> 90 mph).  I measured 
the thickness of the module frame, and its about 1/2 the thickness of 
an old Siemens SP75 that I compared it to.  These were Solar World 
modules, but I've noticed most modules today have significantly less 
robust frames than the old days.


More surface area to catch the wind + thinner metal = failure at high 
enough wind speed.


BTW, the rack is a DPW high wind model, both the rack and the 4" pole 
didn't budge at all, just the modules themselves.  I've had a second 
system, same configuration have similar damage in a wind storm just 
last year.  Its just on the top modules, not all of them.  I have 
quite a few MT Solar racks with the top down mounting, and no 
losses.   I've been  suspicious of top down module racking; and I was 
quite satisfied with actual bolts and hardware to hold modules in 
place.  But its just not true anymore.    I added 3/4" angle stainless 
steel to reinforce the attachments on the top modules.



Ray Walters

On 3/9/2024 12:44 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:


Ray,

It appears that there is something between the module frame and rail 
that may have introduced the frame crack. Perhaps as it was 
tightened, and not due to the wind. What is the light material that 
looks like it is sandwiched between the module and rail?


Kent Osterberg

On 3/8/2024 4:23 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Here's another mount at the edge of failure, from the same system. 
Hardware is tight.  Like many, I had lots of love for good ol' 
fashion bottom mounting vs top mount, until this happened about 5 
years ago.


This is how we learn.


On 3/8/2024 5:15 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


I've had several modules pull off of bottom mount racking in high 
winds, but never top mount racking.  Newer modules have much 
thinner frames, but are much more surface area than the old days.



Ray Walters
Remote Solar


On 3/8/2024 3:50 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:
and for the life of me I don't understand the logic of of a top 
mount clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

That's just distortion in the image, from when I zoomed and cropped it.  
Its module frame direct to the 2" angle aluminum support rail. Nothing 
in between.  High winds ripped two other modules completely off the rack 
leaving all the hardware still attached with a bit of module frame still 
under the washers .


This is on a mountain top in Wyoming.   Believe me, when I tell you that 
bottom mounting is no longer a safe method with today's big modules, at 
least not in high wind situations (> 90 mph). I measured the thickness 
of the module frame, and its about 1/2 the thickness of an old Siemens 
SP75 that I compared it to.  These were Solar World modules, but I've 
noticed most modules today have significantly less robust frames than 
the old days.


More surface area to catch the wind + thinner metal = failure at high 
enough wind speed.


BTW, the rack is a DPW high wind model, both the rack and the 4" pole 
didn't budge at all, just the modules themselves.  I've had a second 
system, same configuration have similar damage in a wind storm just last 
year.  Its just on the top modules, not all of them.  I have quite a few 
MT Solar racks with the top down mounting, and no losses.   I've been  
suspicious of top down module racking; and I was quite satisfied with 
actual bolts and hardware to hold modules in place.  But its just not 
true anymore.    I added 3/4" angle stainless steel to reinforce the 
attachments on the top modules.



Ray Walters

On 3/9/2024 12:44 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:


Ray,

It appears that there is something between the module frame and rail 
that may have introduced the frame crack. Perhaps as it was tightened, 
and not due to the wind. What is the light material that looks like it 
is sandwiched between the module and rail?


Kent Osterberg

On 3/8/2024 4:23 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Here's another mount at the edge of failure, from the same system. 
Hardware is tight.  Like many, I had lots of love for good ol' 
fashion bottom mounting vs top mount, until this happened about 5 
years ago.


This is how we learn.


On 3/8/2024 5:15 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


I've had several modules pull off of bottom mount racking in high 
winds, but never top mount racking.  Newer modules have much thinner 
frames, but are much more surface area than the old days.



Ray Walters
Remote Solar


On 3/8/2024 3:50 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:
and for the life of me I don't understand the logic of of a top 
mount clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Kent via RE-wrenches]

Ray,

It appears that there is something between the module frame and rail 
that may have introduced the frame crack. Perhaps as it was tightened, 
and not due to the wind. What is the light material that looks like it 
is sandwiched between the module and rail?


Kent Osterberg

On 3/8/2024 4:23 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


Here's another mount at the edge of failure, from the same system. 
Hardware is tight.  Like many, I had lots of love for good ol' fashion 
bottom mounting vs top mount, until this happened about 5 years ago.


This is how we learn.

On 3/8/2024 5:15 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


I've had several modules pull off of bottom mount racking in high 
winds, but never top mount racking.  Newer modules have much thinner 
frames, but are much more surface area than the old days.



Ray Walters
Remote Solar


On 3/8/2024 3:50 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:
and for the life of me I don't understand the logic of of a top 
mount clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Allan Sindelar via RE-wrenches]

In my experience, trackers have never made sense in off grid residential applications. In general terms, an expensive dual-axis Wattsun tracker offers a ~35% potential increase in daily solar gain around the summer solstice, and only a 10-15% gain in winter, due to seasonal sunpath variation. Any off grid residence has maximum load in winter, not summer - for most folks summer produces an excess, if sized well for winter loads. If you need more solar input, add panels rather than a tracker.  With specific exceptions, I would design for winter loads, with a pole top rack for easy (and usually one-person) seasonal adjustment. I also advised clients to set the PT rack tilt angle to latitude from around the 10th of February to the 10th of November, and latitude +15 degrees for the six weeks either side of the winter solstice, December 22. This was instead of adjusting tilt angle on the equinoxes. My installations were in the desert southwest but the principles apply anywhere. Also, my experience with Solar Rackworks has been top tier for decades. Jeff Randall cut his teeth at Zomeworks in solar’s early days, was the engineer who designed Direct Power and Water’s racks, waited out his non-compete after PLP bought DP, then started SR with 30 years’ production experience. And he was always willing to modify a design for a specific client or project. Allan Sindelar Fully retired, finallyNABCEP & Journeyman licenses expiredOn Mar 8, 2024, at 3:50 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:Spendy for the right client, Jeff and Kyle still support/sell the best trackers out there.
https://www.wattsun.com/
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
On 2024-03-08 3:27 pm, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:



Another one out there that is worth looking at is MT Solar. 
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 5:51 PM Kent via RE-wrenches  wrote:

Jeremy,I think the Solar RacksWorks TPMs are virtually identical to the DPW TPMs. My go to TPM is General Specialties; They are a solid design and I think they are easier to assemble. They also have UL listed TPMs but they have top mounting clamps, and for the life of me I don't understand the logic of of a top mount clamp on a TPM.Kent OsterbergBlue Mountain Solar
On 3/8/2024 2:30 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:

With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range. 
I looked in the archives, but no luck. 
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them. 

Jeremy Rodriguez 
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St. 
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches]

Adding in my vote for MT Solar.  Quality product, quality customer service.
I saw someone mention Wattsun as well but their product is trackers not
simply pole mounts.  They too have superb customer service but not for
static racking.

- Sam
OnSite Energy, Inc.
Bozeman, MT
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Chris Daum via RE-wrenches]

Hear hear!  www.mtsolar.us <http://www.mtsolar.us> Great folks with whom to 
do business.
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com/>  
 
 
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2024 4:28 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Dave Tedeyan 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search
 
Another one out there that is worth looking at is MT Solar. 
Cheers,
Dave
On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 5:51 PM Kent via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:
Jeremy,

I think the Solar RacksWorks TPMs are virtually identical to the DPW TPMs. My 
go to TPM is General Specialties <https://www.generalspecialtiesmfg.com/> ; 
They are a solid design and I think they are easier to assemble. They also have 
UL listed TPMs but they have top mounting clamps, and for the life of me I 
don't understand the logic of of a top mount clamp on a TPM.

Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
 
On 3/8/2024 2:30 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:
With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending for 
a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range. 
I looked in the archives, but no luck. 
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them. 
 
Jeremy Rodriguez 
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St. 
Penrose Colorado 81240
 
Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

Here's another mount at the edge of failure, from the same system. 
Hardware is tight.  Like many, I had lots of love for good ol' fashion 
bottom mounting vs top mount, until this happened about 5 years ago.


This is how we learn.

On 3/8/2024 5:15 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


I've had several modules pull off of bottom mount racking in high 
winds, but never top mount racking.  Newer modules have much thinner 
frames, but are much more surface area than the old days.



Ray Walters
Remote Solar


On 3/8/2024 3:50 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:
and for the life of me I don't understand the logic of of a top mount 
clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

I've had several modules pull off of bottom mount racking in high winds, 
but never top mount racking.  Newer modules have much thinner frames, 
but are much more surface area than the old days.


So to answer Kent's question:

Ray Walters
Remote Solar


On 3/8/2024 3:50 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:
and for the life of me I don't understand the logic of of a top mount 
clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Roy Butler via RE-wrenches]

MT Solar is very much in business.

Anyone going to the NABCEP Conference later this month? They're at booth 
#34.
Hope to see some of you there, I'll be around booth 38 and registration 
most of the time.


Roy Butler
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747

Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you 
don’t.

“The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.”

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.




On 3/8/2024 5:40 PM, Nathan J. Stumpff via RE-wrenches wrote:
It’s been a few years since I bought these but it looks like they are 
still going, I always thought it was a good product when I bought in 
the past:


https://www.mtsolar.us/

Cheers,
-Nathan

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 2:31 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all
recommending for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
I looked in the archives, but no luck.
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Spendy for the right client, Jeff and Kyle still support/sell the best 
trackers out there.

https://www.wattsun.com/

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-03-08 3:27 pm, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:


Another one out there that is worth looking at is MT Solar.
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 5:51 PM Kent via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Jeremy,

I think the Solar RacksWorks TPMs are virtually identical to the DPW 
TPMs. My go to TPM is General Specialties [1]; They are a solid design 
and I think they are easier to assemble. They also have UL listed TPMs 
but they have top mounting clamps, and for the life of me I don't 
understand the logic of of a top mount clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 3/8/2024 2:30 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:

With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all 
recommending for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.

I looked in the archives, but no luck.
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Links:
--
[1] https://www.generalspecialtiesmfg.com/
[2] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[3] https://offgridsolar1.com/___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Another one out there that is worth looking at is MT Solar.
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024, 5:51 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jeremy,
>
> I think the Solar RacksWorks TPMs are virtually identical to the DPW TPMs.
> My go to TPM is General Specialties
> ; They are a solid design and I
> think they are easier to assemble. They also have UL listed TPMs but they
> have top mounting clamps, and for the life of me I don't understand the
> logic of of a top mount clamp on a TPM.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
>
>
> On 3/8/2024 2:30 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending 
> for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
> I looked in the archives, but no luck.
> I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Kent via RE-wrenches]

Jeremy,

I think the Solar RacksWorks TPMs are virtually identical to the DPW 
TPMs. My go to TPM is General Specialties 
; They are a solid design and I 
think they are easier to assemble. They also have UL listed TPMs but 
they have top mounting clamps, and for the life of me I don't understand 
the logic of of a top mount clamp on a TPM.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 3/8/2024 2:30 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:

With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending for 
a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
I looked in the archives, but no luck.
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

Try Solar Rack Works


[Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140]

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables Inc.
989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
Ferndale CA 95536
(707) 923-3000 office
www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/>


 [cid:image002.jpg@01DA17CF.578FC540]  Please print only if necessary.

NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by 
replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message.


From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
Nathan J. Stumpff via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2024 2:40:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Nathan J. Stumpff 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

It’s been a few years since I bought these but it looks like they are still 
going, I always thought it was a good product when I bought in the past:

https://www.mtsolar.us/

Cheers,
-Nathan

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 2:31 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending for 
a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
I looked in the archives, but no luck.
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Nathan J. Stumpff via RE-wrenches]

It’s been a few years since I bought these but it looks like they are still
going, I always thought it was a good product when I bought in the past:

https://www.mtsolar.us/

Cheers,
-Nathan

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 2:31 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending
> for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
> I looked in the archives, but no luck.
> I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St.
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

https://solarrackworks.com/top-of-pole-racks.html

Jeff Randall has been in the business for years and he is as solid as they
come.  He started DPW.

William

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2024 2:31 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Cc: Jeremy Rodriguez
Subject: [RE-wrenches] TPM Search

With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending
for a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range.
I looked in the archives, but no luck.
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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[RE-wrenches] TPM Search

[Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches]

With news that PLP has dropped the TPM line, what are you all recommending for 
a good mount for up to 8 modules , 400 w range. 
I looked in the archives, but no luck. 
I thought there was someone formerly at DPW that was making them. 

Jeremy Rodriguez 
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St. 
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. 
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