Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Wrenches,Follow up from the mfgr (Surrette) for new batteries, SG and electrolyte levels should level out after a few cycles and do not add water until after an initial charge. The "rise" of the low electrolyte levels can be 'surprising'.No comment on adding acid, or not. Had a great Saturday installing that 48V, 2400Ah bank. Thanks for all comments. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Hello Rob, I agree. I did not read where he said the electrolyte was spilled out, simply that he was "considering" adding acid. Let me extend my statement... There is never a reason to add acid unless the electrolyte has been spilled. Thanks, Larry - Original Message - From: Rob Shappell To: 'RE-wrenches' Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries With all due respect Larry, you must add acid, not water, if you know acid has been lost. Otherwise you can charge, charge, charge and never reach full SG. Rob Shappell Northwest Energy Storage Solar-One Batteries From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:12 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Benn, First off, there is never a reason to add acid. The acid/water mixture is very specific and should not be changed. From the moment a battery has been activated (electrolyte added), it is in a discharge mode. The sulfuric acid in the electrolyte starts to be absorbed into the plates (electrochemical process) creating lead sulfate. All new batteries need to be initially charged to reverse this. Only then can you get an accurate SG base reading to record in the log book. New flooded battery charging process: Start by charging the new battery at a relatively high voltage, about 2.47vpc @ 77 degrees, until the current drops to about 0.5 amps per 100AH capacity. As long as the plates are covered, you do not need to add any water during this process. Turn the voltage up to about 2.6 volts per cell for at least a couple hours. You will notice heavy gassing so make sure they are vented well. Let batteries rest a while and take your SG reading. Only if necessary, add water to the proper level. Long battery life note: Do not discharge new batteries very deep until they have been cycled about 10 to 15 times. About battery manufacture dates: Too often we have received batteries that have set for many months after manufacturing. We return these because the amorphous lead sulfate ions may have formed bonds to the plate that are (or may be) irreversible. This same effect is caused by undercharging a battery for long periods and it usually leads to premature failure. Any flooded battery setting for over 30 days should be fully recharged. To answer your question about liquid volume, the plates are absorbent. They absorb acid while discharging and the acid is recombined with water when charging. So the level is in constant flux. That is why you should not add water to a discharged battery except to cover the plates; charge it first. Much more than 2 cents but that's just me. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems www.starlightsolar.com 928-342-9103 - Original Message - From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Mick n' Nick, Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says they were mfgrd the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the 8th week. So they haven't been sitting too long. I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will take their advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty valid), but you cannot deny the value of the hands-on experience and insight from this list. They said to add distilled water after the initial charge, which is why i was only "considering" adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than water. Waiting for reply. Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level once all batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the plates become more or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical reaction change the volume of the liquid. I will watch this closely. cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
With all due respect Larry, you must add acid, not water, if you know acid has been lost. Otherwise you can charge, charge, charge and never reach full SG. Rob Shappell Northwest Energy Storage Solar-One Batteries From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:12 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Benn, First off, there is never a reason to add acid. The acid/water mixture is very specific and should not be changed. >From the moment a battery has been activated (electrolyte added), it is in a discharge mode. The sulfuric acid in the electrolyte starts to be absorbed into the plates (electrochemical process) creating lead sulfate. All new batteries need to be initially charged to reverse this. Only then can you get an accurate SG base reading to record in the log book. New flooded battery charging process: Start by charging the new battery at a relatively high voltage, about 2.47vpc @ 77 degrees, until the current drops to about 0.5 amps per 100AH capacity. As long as the plates are covered, you do not need to add any water during this process. Turn the voltage up to about 2.6 volts per cell for at least a couple hours. You will notice heavy gassing so make sure they are vented well. Let batteries rest a while and take your SG reading. Only if necessary, add water to the proper level. Long battery life note: Do not discharge new batteries very deep until they have been cycled about 10 to 15 times. About battery manufacture dates: Too often we have received batteries that have set for many months after manufacturing. We return these because the amorphous lead sulfate ions may have formed bonds to the plate that are (or may be) irreversible. This same effect is caused by undercharging a battery for long periods and it usually leads to premature failure. Any flooded battery setting for over 30 days should be fully recharged. To answer your question about liquid volume, the plates are absorbent. They absorb acid while discharging and the acid is recombined with water when charging. So the level is in constant flux. That is why you should not add water to a discharged battery except to cover the plates; charge it first. Much more than 2 cents but that's just me. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems www.starlightsolar.com 928-342-9103 - Original Message - From: benn kilburn <mailto:b...@daystarsolar.ca> To: Wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Mick n' Nick, Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says they were mfgrd the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the 8th week. So they haven't been sitting too long. I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will take their advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty valid), but you cannot deny the value of the hands-on experience and insight from this list. They said to add distilled water after the initial charge, which is why i was only "considering" adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than water. Waiting for reply. Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level once all batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the plates become more or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical reaction change the volume of the liquid. I will watch this closely. cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Benn, First off, there is never a reason to add acid. The acid/water mixture is very specific and should not be changed. >From the moment a battery has been activated (electrolyte added), it is in a >discharge mode. The sulfuric acid in the electrolyte starts to be absorbed >into the plates (electrochemical process) creating lead sulfate. All new >batteries need to be initially charged to reverse this. Only then can you get >an accurate SG base reading to record in the log book. New flooded battery charging process: Start by charging the new battery at a relatively high voltage, about 2.47vpc @ 77 degrees, until the current drops to about 0.5 amps per 100AH capacity. As long as the plates are covered, you do not need to add any water during this process. Turn the voltage up to about 2.6 volts per cell for at least a couple hours. You will notice heavy gassing so make sure they are vented well. Let batteries rest a while and take your SG reading. Only if necessary, add water to the proper level. Long battery life note: Do not discharge new batteries very deep until they have been cycled about 10 to 15 times. About battery manufacture dates: Too often we have received batteries that have set for many months after manufacturing. We return these because the amorphous lead sulfate ions may have formed bonds to the plate that are (or may be) irreversible. This same effect is caused by undercharging a battery for long periods and it usually leads to premature failure. Any flooded battery setting for over 30 days should be fully recharged. To answer your question about liquid volume, the plates are absorbent. They absorb acid while discharging and the acid is recombined with water when charging. So the level is in constant flux. That is why you should not add water to a discharged battery except to cover the plates; charge it first. Much more than 2 cents but that's just me. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems www.starlightsolar.com 928-342-9103 - Original Message - From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Mick n' Nick, Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says they were mfgrd the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the 8th week. So they haven't been sitting too long. I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will take their advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty valid), but you cannot deny the value of the hands-on experience and insight from this list. They said to add distilled water after the initial charge, which is why i was only "considering" adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than water. Waiting for reply. Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level once all batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the plates become more or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical reaction change the volume of the liquid. I will watch this closely. cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
We got one shipment of thick plate 2V that apparently had been mistakenly shipped with the wrong electrolyte mix.. the Battery folks were pretty good about ponying up.. they sent me everything I needed to get things straightened out.. (Including $$ for the hassle).. Basically they had me set the Charge Controllers a Little Hot to burn off Water, then charge the snot out of them (like on EQ all week end). after the return amps dropped below like 3-5% of the normal charge rate, we'd let things rest for a while and then check SG (temp compensated).. My take away was the notion that the batteries were designed to be "fully charged" when the regulated charge rate dropped below 3-5% and the SG averaged 1.28.. The Tech guy also told me that they used a constant current of like 80A for days for their commissioning charge... The biggest problem I've been having is getting folks head around the scale of the difference between thick plate technology and their old UL16s.. They sure can take a whole lot more to charge when they're down... Good Luck.. dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44 Original Message ---- Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries From: "Dana" <d...@solarwork.com> Date: Thu, March 24, 2011 1:34 pm To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> HUP Solar One batteries recommend topping off the electrolyte and doing an initial EQ cycle prior to use. We always check SG and voltage/cell on arrival and to date never had any discrepancy on either. Additionally we unbolt all connections, polish with a copper pipe wire brush all connecting surfaces [with a respirator on] re-bolt, check voltage & SG, then coat with Vaseline all connecting surfaces. So, total we check volt per cell and SG twice. Considering that this bank will be in place for 16-20 years it is a good place to start. Do it once and do it correctly. This serves as a good baseline. I have mentioned this before but we only use a refractometer for checking specific gravity anymore the accuracy is dead on and not subject to sticking floats and curvature of the electrolyte in the hydrometer. Refractometers are $85-$100 each from a good plumbing wholesale house. Dana OrzelGreat Solar Works, IncE - d...@solarwork.comV - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140C - 970.209.4076web - www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"Do not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through action. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick SoleilSent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:20 AMTo: RE-wrenchesSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick SoleilProject ManagerAdvanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLCPO Box 657Petaluma, CA 94953Cell: 707-321-2937Office: 707-789-9537Fax: 707-769-9037 From: benn kilburn <b...@daystarsolar.ca>To: Wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AMSubject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteriesI'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list,bennDayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Hey Dana, it's EQ then top off. Rob From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dana Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:35 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries HUP Solar One batteries recommend topping off the electrolyte and doing an initial EQ cycle prior to use. We always check SG and voltage/cell on arrival and to date never had any discrepancy on either. Additionally we unbolt all connections, polish with a copper pipe wire brush all connecting surfaces [with a respirator on] re-bolt, check voltage & SG, then coat with Vaseline all connecting surfaces. So, total we check volt per cell and SG twice. Considering that this bank will be in place for 16-20 years it is a good place to start. Do it once and do it correctly. This serves as a good baseline. I have mentioned this before but we only use a refractometer for checking specific gravity anymore the accuracy is dead on and not subject to sticking floats and curvature of the electrolyte in the hydrometer. Refractometers are $85-$100 each from a good plumbing wholesale house. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" Do not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through action. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 _ From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
HUP Solar One batteries recommend topping off the electrolyte and doing an initial EQ cycle prior to use. We always check SG and voltage/cell on arrival and to date never had any discrepancy on either. Additionally we unbolt all connections, polish with a copper pipe wire brush all connecting surfaces [with a respirator on] re-bolt, check voltage & SG, then coat with Vaseline all connecting surfaces. So, total we check volt per cell and SG twice. Considering that this bank will be in place for 16-20 years it is a good place to start. Do it once and do it correctly. This serves as a good baseline. I have mentioned this before but we only use a refractometer for checking specific gravity anymore the accuracy is dead on and not subject to sticking floats and curvature of the electrolyte in the hydrometer. Refractometers are $85-$100 each from a good plumbing wholesale house. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 web - www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" Do not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through action. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 _ From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
I just spoke with Derek at IBE, having just taken delivery of two
sets of 2V industrial cells, one for a customer and the other for my
own home. On the customer's set, installed yesterday, I measured one
cell as .01V lower and .022 SG lower, before hooking up to any
charging source, and asked him whether to be concerned. His advice:
Before any testing and comparing of cells, EQ the bank to conteract
self-discharge. Ignore differences until this has been done.
Don't add acid, as doing so will upset the concentration. After
initial EQ charge, test SG again. Adjust SG to even out the cells by
transferring modest amounts of electrolyte from the cells with the
highest SG to those with lower SG. This will tend to even out acid
concentration. Acid concentration thus takes priority over
electrolyte level in each cell. Later addition of distilled water
will tend to dilute the cells with stronger SG from which
electrolyte was removed.
Allan Sindelar
al...@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic
Installer
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com
On 3/24/2011 12:12 PM, benn kilburn wrote:
Mick n' Nick,
Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says
they were mfgrd the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the
8th week. So they haven't been sitting too long.
I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will
take their advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty
valid), but you cannot deny the value of the hands-on experience
and insight from this list. They said to add distilled water
after the initial charge, which is why i was only "considering"
adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than water.
Waiting for reply.
Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level
once all batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the
plates become more or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical
reaction change the volume of the liquid. I will watch this
closely.
cheers,
benn
DayStar Renewable Energy
Inc.
b...@daystarsolar.ca
780-906-7807
HAVE A SUNNY DAY
From: m...@abrahamsolar.com
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:27:36 -0600
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Benn~ If the company that built those batteries is a major brand
name, I advise that you add neither water nor acid to the new
cells. Check with the mfr, but most of the serious mfrs are
using robotic fill equipment that is very precise.
If some of the cells are older stock they may have self
discharged a bit and the electrolyte level rises & falls
like the tide based on state of charge. I'll bet if you can EQ
the batts to reach equal state of charge, you also will find the
electrolyte level to equalize.
Jolliness,
Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com
Voice: 970-731-4675
On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM,
Nick Soleil <nicksoleilso...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Benn:
Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a
little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking,
if you find that the batteries test reading are a little
low, they are probably just a little discharged. After
recharging the batteries, test them again. If those
readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the
data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers
warranting their defective batteries in warranty.
Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell: 707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax: 707-769-9037
From:
benn kilburn <b...@daystarsolar.ca>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Hi, Benn~ When the batteries are chemically discharged, the plates absorb some of the volume of the electrolyte...and that "lowers the tide". Upon recharge the chemicals that had been absorbed into the plates are driven back into solution...and that "raises the tide". This is why one should never top up the levels on a battery which is electrically discharged. The problem with that is if/when the battery receives a good charge, the electrolyte level will rise, maybe enough to overflow through the cell caps. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 12:12 PM, benn kilburn wrote: > Mick n' Nick, > Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says they were mfgrd > the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the 8th week. So they haven't > been sitting too long. > > I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will take their > advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty valid), but you cannot > deny the value of the hands-on experience and insight from this list. They > said to add distilled water after the initial charge, which is why i was > only "considering" adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than > water. Waiting for reply. > > Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level once all > batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the plates become more > or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical reaction change the volume of the > liquid. I will watch this closely. > > cheers, > benn > > DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. > b...@daystarsolar.ca > 780-906-7807 > HAVE A SUNNY DAY > > > > > > ------ > From: m...@abrahamsolar.com > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:27:36 -0600 > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries > > > Benn~ If the company that built those batteries is a major brand name, I > advise that you add neither water nor acid to the new cells. Check with the > mfr, but most of the serious mfrs are using robotic fill equipment that is > very precise. > > If some of the cells are older stock they may have self discharged a bit > and the electrolyte level rises & falls like the tide based on state of > charge. I'll bet if you can EQ the batts to reach equal state of charge, you > also will find the electrolyte level to equalize. > > Jolliness, > > Mick Abraham, Proprietor > www.abrahamsolar.com > > Voice: 970-731-4675 > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Nick Soleil > wrote: > > Hi Benn: > Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need > a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading > are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After > recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then > contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery > manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. > > Nick Soleil > Project Manager > Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC > PO Box 657 > Petaluma, CA 94953 > Cell: 707-321-2937 > Office: 707-789-9537 > Fax: 707-769-9037 > > > -- > *From:* benn kilburn > *To:* Wrenches > *Sent:* Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries > > I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from > the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load > testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte > level. > > I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to > work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in > 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the > one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. > > What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the > consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and > 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube > with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full > battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. > > Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a > battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? > > I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of > distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? > > Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list,
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Mick n' Nick,Thanks guys. I shoulda mentioned that the date code says they were mfgrd the 7th week of 2011 and the one exception, the 8th week. So they haven't been sitting too long. I have been in contact with the mfgr, and of course i will take their advice over anyone else's (gotta keep the warranty valid), but you cannot deny the value of the hands-on experience and insight from this list. They said to add distilled water after the initial charge, which is why i was only "considering" adding acid. I have asked about adding acid rather than water. Waiting for reply. Mick, you mentioned that the electrolyte levels may level once all batteries are at equal SOC. Can you elaborate? Do the plates become more or less 'absorbent' or does the chemical reaction change the volume of the liquid. I will watch this closely. cheers,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY From: m...@abrahamsolar.com Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:27:36 -0600 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries Benn~ If the company that built those batteries is a major brand name, I advise that you add neither water nor acid to the new cells. Check with the mfr, but most of the serious mfrs are using robotic fill equipment that is very precise. If some of the cells are older stock they may have self discharged a bit and the electrolyte level rises & falls like the tide based on state of charge. I'll bet if you can EQ the batts to reach equal state of charge, you also will find the electrolyte level to equalize. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Addr
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Benn~ If the company that built those batteries is a major brand name, I advise that you add neither water nor acid to the new cells. Check with the mfr, but most of the serious mfrs are using robotic fill equipment that is very precise. If some of the cells are older stock they may have self discharged a bit and the electrolyte level rises & falls like the tide based on state of charge. I'll bet if you can EQ the batts to reach equal state of charge, you also will find the electrolyte level to equalize. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Nick Soleil wrote: > Hi Benn: > Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need > a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading > are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After > recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then > contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery > manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. > > Nick Soleil > Project Manager > Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC > PO Box 657 > Petaluma, CA 94953 > Cell: 707-321-2937 > Office: 707-789-9537 > Fax: 707-769-9037 > > > -- > *From:* benn kilburn > *To:* Wrenches > *Sent:* Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries > > I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from > the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load > testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte > level. > > I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to > work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in > 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the > one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. > > What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the > consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and > 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube > with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full > battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. > > Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a > battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? > > I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of > distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? > > Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list, > benn > > DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. > b...@daystarsolar.ca > 780-906-7807 > HAVE A SUNNY DAY > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
