Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
I believe the only requirement for single exposed source circuit conductors in an ungrounded PV system (which encompasses TL inverter systems) is that they be listed (PV) wire until they reach an enclosure/raceway. That's a paraphrase of 2011 690.35 (D). Double insulated wires are not mentioned specifically, some listed PV wire is double insulated, some is not. Marco is right, in that some modules have listed PV wire whips, others just use USE-2 or similar. If you don't want to get dinged by the rare inspector that actually checks these things (essentially non-existent here in Ohio), you better make sure your modules comply. This is my understanding at least. Daniel Young, NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 5:54 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire Note that this also assumes that the conductor whips from the modules ARE ALSO double insulated if they're to be used with TL inverters. Some mods have 'em, some do not. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 11:52 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire Marco: Good point. If one can position transition boxes close enough to the modules, you can use only the leads from the modules, avoiding the need to buy any PV wire. It is surprisingly easy to do. See: http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/PV_Cable_wiring/_ PV_Cable_Wiring.html WM double-insulated wire has to be used from the module series string to the first enclosure and enclosed raceway where the transition to standard THHN/THWN wire can be made. marco _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6119 - Release Date: 08/29/13 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
Hola, Any recommendations where I can find rolls of #10 double-insulated PV wire (for use with transformerless inverters) in the South S.F. Bay Area? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
Aee Solar sells it, we bought a lot. Don't forget the normal cable gland holes will be too small, you have to buy special units. I ended up buying those from the UK. On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.comwrote: Hola, ** ** Any recommendations where I can find rolls of #10 double-insulated PV wire (for use with transformerless inverters) in the South S.F. Bay Area? ** ** Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
Thanks. Yeah, the MC connectors, for example, that work with that double-insulated wire are the one with the larger orifices, as in rated for #10 and #8 conductors if memory serves. I called a half a dozen electrical supply warehouses in these here parts and none of them carried the wire and hadn't even heard of it. Leads me to believe that not enough integrators who are now spec'ing out the TL inverters know that double-insulated wire has to be used from the module series string to the first enclosure and enclosed raceway where the transition to standard THHN/THWN wire can be made. marco Aee Solar sells it, we bought a lot. Don't forget the normal cable gland holes will be too small, you have to buy special units. I ended up buying those from the UK. On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.com wrote: Hola, Any recommendations where I can find rolls of #10 double-insulated PV wire (for use with transformerless inverters) in the South S.F. Bay Area? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
Marco, Last we purchased both from USA wire and cable in Austin. Under $5 per mated pair and pins for oversized MC4. Doug Wells The Solar Specialists Morrisville, VT 05661 (p) 802-223-7014 (c) 802-498-5856 www.thesolarspecialists.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
Marco: Good point. If one can position transition boxes close enough to the modules, you can use only the leads from the modules, avoiding the need to buy any PV wire. It is surprisingly easy to do. See: http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/PV_Cable_wiring/_ PV_Cable_Wiring.html WM double-insulated wire has to be used from the module series string to the first enclosure and enclosed raceway where the transition to standard THHN/THWN wire can be made. marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
Note that this also assumes that the conductor whips from the modules ARE ALSO double insulated if they're to be used with TL inverters. Some mods have 'em, some do not. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 11:52 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire Marco: Good point. If one can position transition boxes close enough to the modules, you can use only the leads from the modules, avoiding the need to buy any PV wire. It is surprisingly easy to do. See: http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/PV_Cable_wiring/_ PV_Cable_Wiring.html WM double-insulated wire has to be used from the module series string to the first enclosure and enclosed raceway where the transition to standard THHN/THWN wire can be made. marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
If you're willing to shop outside the bay area Civic Solar http://www.civicsolar.com/product/10-awg-ul-4703-black-pv-wire?utm_source=g oogle_shoppingutm_medium=google_shoppingutm_campaign=google_shoppinggclid =CPa37eGQprkCFbAWMgodtjQARw has black, red, and white PV Wire for a pretty decent price. www.pv-cables.com may also be a good resource for you. Garrison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 1:59 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire Hola, Any recommendations where I can find rolls of #10 double-insulated PV wire (for use with transformerless inverters) in the South S.F. Bay Area? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire
Marco, You might try http://pv-cables.com/ my contact there is Bryan. They sell all kinds of PV wire, connectors, etc for good prices. Do you have 1000 V TL inverters or just 600 V? If you are using 1000 V the whole wiring game changes quite a bit. Best, August Luminalt *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Marco Mangelsdorf *Sent:* Friday, August 30, 2013 2:54 PM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire Note that this also assumes that the conductor whips from the modules ARE ALSO double insulated if they’re to be used with TL inverters. Some mods have ‘em, some do not. *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgre-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *William Miller *Sent:* Friday, August 30, 2013 11:52 AM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] double-insulated PV wire Marco: Good point. If one can position transition boxes close enough to the modules, you can use only the leads from the modules, avoiding the need to buy any PV wire. It is surprisingly easy to do. See: http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/PV_Cable_wiring/_PV_Cable_Wiring.html WM double-insulated wire has to be used from the module series string to the first enclosure and enclosed raceway where the transition to standard THHN/THWN wire can be made. marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] double insulated/PV wire
Sorry for my density..is PV wire necessarily double insulated? Thanks, marco From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 6:52 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] double insulated wire No wiring color convention or code requirement will reduce the need to check (double-, triple-check) polarity during any DC wiring task. I'd almost prefer everything to be black except the grounded conductor (white if present) and grounding conductors in a DC system. (opinions stated without consideration of code or convention) Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 10:09 AM, August Goers aug...@luminalt.com wrote: The most common mistake I've seen is not correctly using white/gray for the grounded conductor on the DC side. I've seen errors most commonly with positive grounded systems (SunPower) but often times installers use black in place of white or something along those lines. It definitely gets confusing. Otherwise, my opinion is that you can basically do what you need with white, black, red, and green for the majority of isolated and non-isolated PV systems with relatively little confusion as long as everything is well labeled. Corey Shalanski's color coding sheet looked good to me. We've tried different colors such as purple and orange and having the extra rolls of wire in the warehouse and other new conventions just causes more confusion. If I'm troubleshooting a system installed by someone else I'm going to check everything with my multimeter before concluding how everything is wired. Wire color isn't going to help that much other than giving me a few hints on what the other installer was thinking. Best, August -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 6:46 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] double insulated wire Ray, I really DO get it. But, after 20 years of mostly working with AC, almost always terminating black conductors to the left of red conductors: black - red, black - red, black - red. I don't think it's much of a mental stretch to see how RED - BLACK might possibly cause some confusion in the heat of the moment. What say the negative conductor was required to be purple or purple with a white stripe when grounded, or some other very infrequently used or even completely new color, or color combination? Some system that immediately screams DC!. Would that not make more sense? It's still a new world, having DC and AC conductors terminated in the same system and enclosure. Thanks for the conversation. And keep an eye on those electricians ;-) Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: Dick; I'm not advocating for a color coding system I invented. It is not dependent on how a wrench's head is wired; its corresponds to how his meter is wired. This is simply combining NEC compliance with almost universal common practice (batteries, automotive, forklifts, multimeters, battery based inverters) R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 tel:303%20505-8760 On 6/30/2013 9:58 AM, Richard L Ratico wrote: Ray, Conductors can be mislabled regardless of the system used. The accident you described had nothing to do with conductor color or labeling. It was caused by a gross violation of sound electrical procedure and plain common sense. Your electricians failed to check for correct polarity before making their terminations. I grant your system works for you and could for others. But until the NEC forces us all onto the same page, an argument can be made that any coding system is as confusing as another. Pardon the pun, it depends on the way a wrenches's head is wired. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: We have standardized on DC markings White negative and Red positive. Chris Mason Comet Systems Anguilla (264) 235-5670 tel:%28264%29%20235-5670 St. Kitts (869) 662-5670 tel:%28869%29%20662-5670 skype netconcepts NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerTM Renewable Energy Systems professional Generac Generators Factory technician On Jun 29, 2013 8:30 PM, David Katz dk...@aeesolar.com wrote: Watch out for accountants who become installers. They always thing red negative and black positive. David Katz Sent from my iPhone On Jun 28, 2013, at 5:40 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Richard, when you use your Fluke 87 to measure Vdc, black is negative, red is positive. The black is labeled common because the meter can also be used for current measurements. (I have a Fluke 89) When you start using black wire for positive, it may be allowed by code, but there just isn't a good reason for it. Its just too easy to make a
[RE-wrenches] double insulated PV wire
Could anyone please pass on the name of a manufacturer or two which produces this wire? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] double insulated PV wire
I am pretty sure you can get it from Multi-Contact USA. Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 http://www.berkeleysolar.com/ www.berkeleysolar.com _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 7:51 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] double insulated PV wire Could anyone please pass on the name of a manufacturer or two which produces this wire? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
