Re: [RE-wrenches] metering an outback system
Yes, you are correct. The Solar pro diagram and article is great for understanding each mode the meter can be in. On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Drake Chamberlin drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: Hi Alex, The one meter hook up always seems confusing to me. I'm still confused. Do we have the AC IN at both the bottom left and top right? To me it seems that the AC OUT from the inverter would go to the upper left and the protected loads panel would be fed from the bottom left. I've never used this method, but would like to use it instead of the two meter method. Thanks, Drake At 12:19 AM 8/10/2010, you wrote: When metering for production here in Washington State, we use both sides in a 12s 120volt meterbase with fifth jaw. * top right inverter ac in*, bottom right ac from grid. top left from battery back up, *bottom left from inverter ac in*, fifth jaw neutral. this set up allows grid tied selling and battery saved energy selling to be metered while subtracting energy used to charge batteries and subtracting any power needed to run the inverter. hope this helps. contact me off list if you need the diagram (in office) -- Alex Cozine NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Brothers Electric Solar brotherselectricsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Alex Cozine NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Brothers Electric Solar brotherselectricsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] metering an outback system
Hi Alex, The one meter hook up always seems confusing to me. I'm still confused. Do we have the AC IN at both the bottom left and top right? To me it seems that the AC OUT from the inverter would go to the upper left and the protected loads panel would be fed from the bottom left. I've never used this method, but would like to use it instead of the two meter method. Thanks, Drake At 12:19 AM 8/10/2010, you wrote: When metering for production here in Washington State, we use both sides in a 12s 120volt meterbase with fifth jaw. top right inverter ac in, bottom right ac from grid. top left from battery back up, bottom left from inverter ac in, fifth jaw neutral. this set up allows grid tied selling and battery saved energy selling to be metered while subtracting energy used to charge batteries and subtracting any power needed to run the inverter. hope this helps. contact me off list if you need the diagram (in office) -- Alex Cozine NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Brothers Electric Solar http://brotherselectricsolar.combrotherselectricsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] metering an outback system
Drake, Chris Freitas wrote an article on this topic in SP1.1, ³Form 12S Metering for Grid-Tied Systems w/ Battery Backup.² Here¹s a link to the article and a wiring diagram: http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP1_1_pg16_QandA_3search= David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine On 8/10/10 7:57 AM, Drake Chamberlin drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: Hi Alex, The one meter hook up always seems confusing to me. I'm still confused. Do we have the AC IN at both the bottom left and top right? To me it seems that the AC OUT from the inverter would go to the upper left and the protected loads panel would be fed from the bottom left. I've never used this method, but would like to use it instead of the two meter method. Thanks, Drake At 12:19 AM 8/10/2010, you wrote: When metering for production here in Washington State, we use both sides in a 12s 120volt meterbase with fifth jaw. top right inverter ac in, bottom right ac from grid. top left from battery back up, bottom left from inverter ac in, fifth jaw neutral. this set up allows grid tied selling and battery saved energy selling to be metered while subtracting energy used to charge batteries and subtracting any power needed to run the inverter. hope this helps. contact me off list if you need the diagram (in office) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] metering an outback system
Hello, I am having trouble metering a system with an Outback 3648 serving a protected loads panel. I need a way to accurately measure the production. I have a dual stator 12s meter installed with the AC in coming in the bottom and out the top and the AC from the inverter going in the top and out the bottom with a neutral from the E-panel connected to the fifth leg. The meter is not reading anything close to the Outback. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Gary Easton Appalachian Renewable Power Systems NABCEP Certified Solar PV NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal 740-277-8498 Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a ³UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate.² You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning company¹s bio as it shows you¹ve done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] metering an outback system
Gary, If this is a new digital meter, it may be accumulating all energy without regard to direction. That is the way the utilities purchase them, to prevent energy theft, so that is the default configuration from the meter manufacturers. When purchasing a digital kWh meter to use for metering production per Outback's instructions, you must specify that the meter is for net metering. Outback should warn about that in their instructions! It is pretty easy to wire the Outback metering scheme incorrectly. To test for that: 1. Disable the solar and battery charger, then confirm that the meter disk does not spin when there is a load is turned on the protected loads panel. 2. Disable the loads and solar, then force a bulk charge and confirm that the meter spins backwards. Even the digital meters show you what way power is flowing with a simulated disk: dots progressing to the right is forward, left is backwards. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar Gary Easton wrote: Hello, I am having trouble metering a system with an Outback 3648 serving a protected loads panel. I need a way to accurately measure the production. I have a dual stator 12s meter installed with the "AC in" coming in the bottom and out the top and the AC from the inverter going in the top and out the bottom with a neutral from the E-panel connected to the fifth leg. The meter is not reading anything close to the Outback. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Gary Easton Appalachian Renewable Power Systems NABCEP Certified Solar PV NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal 740-277-8498 Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate. You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning companys bio as it shows youve done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind" ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: "Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. " Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the "UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate"? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3059 - Release Date: 08/08/10 10:57:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:
Re: [RE-wrenches] metering an outback system
When metering for production here in Washington State, we use both sides in a 12s 120volt meterbase with fifth jaw. top right inverter ac in, bottom right ac from grid. top left from battery back up, bottom left from inverter ac in, fifth jaw neutral. this set up allows grid tied selling and battery saved energy selling to be metered while subtracting energy used to charge batteries and subtracting any power needed to run the inverter. hope this helps. contact me off list if you need the diagram (in office) -- Alex Cozine NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Brothers Electric Solar brotherselectricsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
