Re: [RE-wrenches] California NEM3 specific question
In the early days of California net metering, PGE distributed the net metering agreement as pdfs that were scans of printouts of the forms, meaning essentially that each page was an image, and short of using image-to-text software, one couldn't extract from, nor do a search on, the text. This meant that (in the days of dialup internet), the forms were large and slow to download. To automate fill-out with client info (instead of printing our PGE's forms and hand-writing them) I copied word-by-word the the official forms. This discussion prompted me to look for them. The net metering agreement says on the last page: 12. TERM OF AGREEMENT This Agreement shall become effective as of the last date set forth in Section 5 of the Declarations and shall continue in full force and effect until terminated by either Party providing 30-days prior written notice to the other Party in accordance with Section 11. This Agreement may be terminated prior to 30 days notice by agreement of both Parties. 13. GOVERNING AUTHORITY This contract shall at all times be subject to such changes or modification by the Public Utilities Commission of the State of California as said Commission may, from time to time, direct in the exercise of its jurisdiction. I have attached an .rtf (rich text format) version if interested. Antony Tersol E79-854_template.rtf Description: Binary data ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] California NEM3 specific question
The NEM2 / NBT transition is only mandated for the three investor-owned utilities in California. Other privately or municipally owned utilities play by their own rules - I believe there are several such as Palo Alto, SMUD, Alameda Municipal Power, LADWP, etc that aren't necessarily changing their rules at this time or may have already changed their rules over time. August On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 3:44 PM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My 2005 yearly billing, net metering agreement with Pacific Power says > nothing about it being only valid for 20 years. > > > > Todd > > > > > > On Friday, March 3, 2023 8:46am, "William Miller via RE-wrenches" < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> said: > > To my Friends on the Wrenches forum: > > > > This is a question that likely can only be answered by a California based > grid-tied contractor. The subject itself may be of more general interest > as it is demonstrative of a trend that has dogged the industry and may be > more prevalent in the future. The subject has many layers to discuss, but > I have a very specific question: > > > > The new NEM3.0 legislation applies to current and future grid-tied > customers connected to Investor Owned Utilities (IOU) in California. It > specifies in part that when NEM3 takes effect on 4/14/23, all customers > that are currently categorized as NEM1 and NEM2 keep their existing status > for 20 years from date of system commission. After that 20 years these > customers will be demoted to NEM3. The reality of NEM3 is that it sucks > for customers. > > > > My home system was commissioned in October of 2003. That means that in > eight months I will be forced into significantly worse terms for trading > kWh with PG It’s not just me-- we installed a lot of grid-tied systems > in the early 2000s and I want to do what I can to protect my clients. I > worry for all people that supported solar when it was much more expensive. > This is really a sad result for early adopters. > > > > BTW, everyone is talking about the poor people that have yet to install > solar but don’t want to get the future bad deal. The hidden story is this > sunset provision. As I said above, this part seems pretty unfair. > > > > I called PG today and was told that there is no way to extend NEM1 or 2 > status, short of removing all solar, having the roof inspected, and > re-installing. > > > > So do any of you California wrenches know what options there are to keep > NEM1 and NEM2 accounts off of NEM3? Any advice is appreciated. > > > > If you agree that this is a problem, spread the word and give your > customers a heads up. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] California NEM3 specific question
Pacific power is not an investor owned utility. On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 3:44 PM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My 2005 yearly billing, net metering agreement with Pacific Power says > nothing about it being only valid for 20 years. > > > > Todd > > > > > > On Friday, March 3, 2023 8:46am, "William Miller via RE-wrenches" < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> said: > > To my Friends on the Wrenches forum: > > > > This is a question that likely can only be answered by a California based > grid-tied contractor. The subject itself may be of more general interest > as it is demonstrative of a trend that has dogged the industry and may be > more prevalent in the future. The subject has many layers to discuss, but > I have a very specific question: > > > > The new NEM3.0 legislation applies to current and future grid-tied > customers connected to Investor Owned Utilities (IOU) in California. It > specifies in part that when NEM3 takes effect on 4/14/23, all customers > that are currently categorized as NEM1 and NEM2 keep their existing status > for 20 years from date of system commission. After that 20 years these > customers will be demoted to NEM3. The reality of NEM3 is that it sucks > for customers. > > > > My home system was commissioned in October of 2003. That means that in > eight months I will be forced into significantly worse terms for trading > kWh with PG It’s not just me-- we installed a lot of grid-tied systems > in the early 2000s and I want to do what I can to protect my clients. I > worry for all people that supported solar when it was much more expensive. > This is really a sad result for early adopters. > > > > BTW, everyone is talking about the poor people that have yet to install > solar but don’t want to get the future bad deal. The hidden story is this > sunset provision. As I said above, this part seems pretty unfair. > > > > I called PG today and was told that there is no way to extend NEM1 or 2 > status, short of removing all solar, having the roof inspected, and > re-installing. > > > > So do any of you California wrenches know what options there are to keep > NEM1 and NEM2 accounts off of NEM3? Any advice is appreciated. > > > > If you agree that this is a problem, spread the word and give your > customers a heads up. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] California NEM3 specific question
My 2005 yearly billing, net metering agreement with Pacific Power says nothing about it being only valid for 20 years. Todd On Friday, March 3, 2023 8:46am, "William Miller via RE-wrenches" said: To my Friends on the Wrenches forum: This is a question that likely can only be answered by a California based grid-tied contractor. The subject itself may be of more general interest as it is demonstrative of a trend that has dogged the industry and may be more prevalent in the future. The subject has many layers to discuss, but I have a very specific question: The new NEM3.0 legislation applies to current and future grid-tied customers connected to Investor Owned Utilities (IOU) in California. It specifies in part that when NEM3 takes effect on 4/14/23, all customers that are currently categorized as NEM1 and NEM2 keep their existing status for 20 years from date of system commission. After that 20 years these customers will be demoted to NEM3. The reality of NEM3 is that it sucks for customers. My home system was commissioned in October of 2003. That means that in eight months I will be forced into significantly worse terms for trading kWh with PG It’s not just me-- we installed a lot of grid-tied systems in the early 2000s and I want to do what I can to protect my clients. I worry for all people that supported solar when it was much more expensive. This is really a sad result for early adopters. BTW, everyone is talking about the poor people that have yet to install solar but don’t want to get the future bad deal. The hidden story is this sunset provision. As I said above, this part seems pretty unfair. I called PG today and was told that there is no way to extend NEM1 or 2 status, short of removing all solar, having the roof inspected, and re-installing. So do any of you California wrenches know what options there are to keep NEM1 and NEM2 accounts off of NEM3? Any advice is appreciated. If you agree that this is a problem, spread the word and give your customers a heads up. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 [ www.millersolar.com ]( http://www.millersolar.com/ ) CA Lic. 773985 Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] California NEM3 specific question
I'm not aware of any other option than completely removing and decommissioning the old PV system and installing a new system to lock in NEM2 for a new 20 year term. We are experiencing unprecedented demand for PV right now as people sign up to lock in under NEM2. There are a lot of nuances to getting our clients locked in so we've been working closely with CALSSA and PG to make sure we're following the rules the best we can. That said, the category of clients with old systems are some of the trickiest to deal with. It doesn't seem like PG's internal process is very well baked at this point. PG is holding some NEM2 webinars next week, so we continue to learn more. As far as NBT (Net Billing Tariff, formerly called NEM3) goes - there is no question it is a major step down for new PV-only projects. Projects with PV paired batteries may fare a bit better since they can be programmed to discharge and earn credits at higher rates. We are having a really hard time getting ESS permits in many Bay Area jurisdictions due to challenging fire code and fire code interpretation. That is really slowing us down. Anyway, there are a lot of challenges ahead but at the same time lots of opportunities! I for one have PV and a battery at my house and I love it, although I am benefitting from NEM2. Best, August Luminalt On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 8:49 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > To my Friends on the Wrenches forum: > > > > This is a question that likely can only be answered by a California based > grid-tied contractor. The subject itself may be of more general interest > as it is demonstrative of a trend that has dogged the industry and may be > more prevalent in the future. The subject has many layers to discuss, but > I have a very specific question: > > > > The new NEM3.0 legislation applies to current and future grid-tied > customers connected to Investor Owned Utilities (IOU) in California. It > specifies in part that when NEM3 takes effect on 4/14/23, all customers > that are currently categorized as NEM1 and NEM2 keep their existing status > for 20 years from date of system commission. After that 20 years these > customers will be demoted to NEM3. The reality of NEM3 is that it sucks > for customers. > > > > My home system was commissioned in October of 2003. That means that in > eight months I will be forced into significantly worse terms for trading > kWh with PG It’s not just me-- we installed a lot of grid-tied systems > in the early 2000s and I want to do what I can to protect my clients. I > worry for all people that supported solar when it was much more expensive. > This is really a sad result for early adopters. > > > > BTW, everyone is talking about the poor people that have yet to install > solar but don’t want to get the future bad deal. The hidden story is this > sunset provision. As I said above, this part seems pretty unfair. > > > > I called PG today and was told that there is no way to extend NEM1 or 2 > status, short of removing all solar, having the roof inspected, and > re-installing. > > > > So do any of you California wrenches know what options there are to keep > NEM1 and NEM2 accounts off of NEM3? Any advice is appreciated. > > > > If you agree that this is a problem, spread the word and give your > customers a heads up. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
