Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-18 Thread Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
It was a bunch of years ago, but I had seen many of these "snail trails" on
some modules. I actually took a curve tracer to them, and they functioned
essentially the same as the other modules there that did not have the snail
trails. Maybe these will be sources of premature failure in the future, but
surprisingly, they were not affecting the module at the time.
Cheers,
Dave

On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 8:16 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Not sure where this install is located but here in the Sierra, we had a
> near record snowfall and we saw a few failures, very few, but...
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
> CA Lic 874049
> Solar powered since 1982
>
>
> On 7/16/2023 7:10 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Kent
> I can assume there is no backsheet external damage, These look cell
> fractures, more common on poly, they may be cause of manufacturing or a
> result of overheating traces or both. Run an IR Curve test and see if this
> is resulting in decreased output. Sharp had a similar issue when they
> stepped up to the 200 larger modules some 20 years ago.
> Fun times
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2023, 2:59 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules this
>> morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that someone on this
>> list can tell me the cause. I've put several photos of the cells online
>> 
>> so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been some localized
>> heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of damage on the rear of
>> the PV modules. These are on an off grid system charging some 12-volt
>> batteries. Thanks.
>>
>> Kent Osterberg
>> Blue Mountain Solar
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>
>
> 
> Virus-free.www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_5367882735140895904_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>

-- 
[image: Logo] 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 270-0370
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-17 Thread frenergy via RE-wrenches 
Not sure where this install is located but here in the Sierra, we had a 
near record snowfall and we saw a few failures, very few, but...


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.(shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell
CA Lic 874049
Solar powered since 1982


On 7/16/2023 7:10 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote:

Kent
I can assume there is no backsheet external damage, These look cell 
fractures, more common on poly, they may be cause of manufacturing or 
a result of overheating traces or both. Run an IR Curve test and see 
if this is resulting in decreased output. Sharp had a similar issue 
when they stepped up to the 200 larger modules some 20 years ago.

Fun times

On Sun, Jul 16, 2023, 2:59 PM Kent via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules
this morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that
someone on this list can tell me the cause. I've put several
photos of the cells online


so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been some
localized heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of
damage on the rear of the PV modules. These are on an off grid
system charging some 12-volt batteries. Thanks.

Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org




--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-16 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
Kent
I can assume there is no backsheet external damage, These look cell
fractures, more common on poly, they may be cause of manufacturing or a
result of overheating traces or both. Run an IR Curve test and see if this
is resulting in decreased output. Sharp had a similar issue when they
stepped up to the 200 larger modules some 20 years ago.
Fun times

On Sun, Jul 16, 2023, 2:59 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules this
> morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that someone on this
> list can tell me the cause. I've put several photos of the cells online
> 
> so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been some localized
> heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of damage on the rear of
> the PV modules. These are on an off grid system charging some 12-volt
> batteries. Thanks.
>
> Kent Osterberg
> Blue Mountain Solar
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-16 Thread Kent via RE-wrenches 
It took some time digging into internet images but I found a YouTube 
video of the same type of defect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3a9AW24T_o
I can see that microcracks are the likely cause. The prevalence of 45 
degree angles seems weird though. Monocrystalline cells should have a 
random fracture direction.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 7/16/2023 2:58 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:
Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules this 
morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that someone on 
this list can tell me the cause. I've put several photos of the cells 
online 
 
so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been some 
localized heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of damage on 
the rear of the PV modules. These are on an off grid system charging 
some 12-volt batteries. Thanks.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-16 Thread Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
These days modules are so cheap, and so much more efficient, that I just 
reuse the racks, even if the existing modules are good. Racking, wiring, 
excavation all exceed the cost of the mods, so its what ever gets the 
customer the power they need for the lowest cost.


OTOH, if the system is still working, I'd just leave them alone, until 
there's an actual failure.  Funny thing is, those modules could be 
losing all kinds of power, but you might not really notice it, if its a 
non MPPT controller.  I do respect the grey haired folks that can still 
live on a 12 v system, the next generations do not have the patience.


I really don't work on 12 v systems much anymore, except to replace them 
in total.  I've found I can burn up a lot of $$ messing around, and the 
customer is still running on a 20+ year old system, that's never going 
to get younger again.  Grape Solar was not a top brand BTW.


Ray Walters

On 7/16/2023 4:18 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:
I think these modules are about 12 years old. I didn't have a 
voltmeter or ammeter with me this morning when this was discovered so 
I wasn't able to check the output.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 7/16/2023 3:06 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi Kent, How is output and how old are the panels?
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 
209 813 0060*



On 2023-07-16 2:58 pm, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:

Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules this 
morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that someone 
on this list can tell me the cause. I've put several photos of the 
cells online 
 
so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been some 
localized heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of damage 
on the rear of the PV modules. These are on an off grid system 
charging some 12-volt batteries. Thanks.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, 
try the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-16 Thread david quattro via RE-wrenches 
The cells are cracking. The metal traces are victim (not the cause) along
the crack lines--

David Quattro
CA License # 954020. C-10, C-46
ph (415) 312-2661
www.quattrosolar.com
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-16 Thread Kent via RE-wrenches 
I think these modules are about 12 years old. I didn't have a voltmeter 
or ammeter with me this morning when this was discovered so I wasn't 
able to check the output.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar


On 7/16/2023 3:06 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi Kent, How is output and how old are the panels?
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 
209 813 0060*



On 2023-07-16 2:58 pm, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:

Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules this 
morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that someone 
on this list can tell me the cause. I've put several photos of the 
cells online 
 
so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been some 
localized heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of damage 
on the rear of the PV modules. These are on an off grid system 
charging some 12-volt batteries. Thanks.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged PV module cells

2023-07-16 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 


Hi Kent, How is output and how old are the panels?

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-07-16 2:58 pm, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:

Found some damage to a customer's Grape CS-S-180-DJ PV modules this 
morning. Unlike anything I've ever seen; so I'm hoping that someone on 
this list can tell me the cause. I've put several photos of the cells 
online [1] so you can inspect them. While it looks like there has been 
some localized heating on the traces, there isn't any evidence of 
damage on the rear of the PV modules. These are on an off grid system 
charging some 12-volt batteries. Thanks.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Links:
--
[1] 
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nQhTqahEx4whmmWyy89tqaEEGvzkvEps?usp=sharing___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org