Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator question

2023-09-26 Thread Kienan Maxfield via RE-wrenches 
The Victron idea for controlling gen start is an interesting one for sure.

The idea Mac proposed as far as triggering gen start based on DC current is 
easy to do, but as he mentioned it's flawed because the PV input would 
effectively reduce the DC current that the shunt sees.

The alternative is slightly more complicated, but with a Victron Cerbo-s GX and 
an AC meter (such as the EM530), you could totally do this based on AC Load 
amperage. You'd need a RS485-USB cable to connect the two devices together, and 
you'd probably have to do the programming in Node-Red (all stuff I'd be happy 
to help with and walk you through).

You'd still have the other general Solark limitations (no warm-up or 
cool-down)...
Then again, you could potentially control a second contactor with the Cerbo-S 
in order to provide warm-up and cool-down... and then again on the other hand, 
if you're firing up the generator because the inverter can't support the 
demand, then maybe you need it to take the load over before it has a 
substantial warmup time...

Cheers,

Kienan Maxfield
Technical sales, Technical Support

Green-Go Solar Distribution
kienan@dist.solar<https://kienan@dist.solar/>
(801) 631-5584 (Cell)
www.distribution.solar<https://www.distribution.solar/>

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Mac 
Lewis via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 5:58 AM
To: offgridso...@sti.net ; RE-wrenches 

Cc: Mac Lewis 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator question

Hello Chris,

I think you will find that the generator interaction with the Sol-Ark is very 
basic and you won't have much flexibility to do this.

As far as ancillary equipment to do a load start, one idea that comes to mind 
is a Victron shunt, Cerbo and GX device.  I'm brainstorming a little bit here 
but if you add the shunt into the battery negative cabling, the Cerbo can be 
sent the battery current measurement.  The Cerbo could then be programmed to 
start based on battery current.  This is a little different than standard AC 
load start but it may cover what you need.  Unfortunately, if the inverter is 
getting overloaded while its sunny, battery current alone can't catch the solar 
current that is being sent directly to the loads and shutdowns will still occur.

Before you do this, I would suggest contacting Kienan Maxfield of Green-go 
Solar Distribution (he's on this list) and knows Victron equipment really well. 
 He can probably tell you if I'm off in the weeds...

Let us know what you find out.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 11:25 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
I would trigger genset on Soc. Is that what you are doing?



Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
<http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net<mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>
text 209 813 0060


On 2023-09-25 9:20 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote:

 Hi folks:



We have a situation where the Sol-Ark 12kW Inverter isn’t able to adequately 
manage the loads and perform auto-gen start other than low battery level.   And 
despite thorough understanding of the customer’s initial loads, after he’s 
bought the system, he’s continued to add more and more loads – a severe case of 
load creep.



He’s got a 38KW generator and we’re looking for the components to make the 
generator load responsive instead of just kicking on when the battery voltage 
is low.  Are there any ideas on switching equipment that can do this and work 
with the Sol-Ark?  We’re waiting for a reply from Sol-Ark, but thought you 
folks may have some ideas.



The original design was for a larger solar system and inverter, but the 
customer balked at the cost and said he’d reduce his loads accordingly.  
Unfortunately, that has not happened!   Now we’re trying to bend the laws of 
physics and have his 38KW  generator make up the difference. We need to come up 
with a means of accommodating the compromised design and now are faced with 
additional loads -- along with a significantly reduced solar array.   Is there 
a way to make this (2 wire start) generator more load responsive?



Thanks for any and all advice!



 Chris Daum

 Oasis Montana Inc.

 406-777-4309 or 4321

 www.oasismontana.com<http://www.oasismontana.com>







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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator question

2023-09-26 Thread Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
Hello Chris,

I think you will find that the generator interaction with the Sol-Ark is
very basic and you won't have much flexibility to do this.

As far as ancillary equipment to do a load start, one idea that comes to
mind is a Victron shunt, Cerbo and GX device.  I'm brainstorming a little
bit here but if you add the shunt into the battery negative cabling, the
Cerbo can be sent the battery current measurement.  The Cerbo could then be
programmed to start based on battery current.  This is a little different
than standard AC load start but it may cover what you need.  Unfortunately,
if the inverter is getting overloaded while its sunny, battery current
alone can't catch the solar current that is being sent directly to the
loads and shutdowns will still occur.

Before you do this, I would suggest contacting Kienan Maxfield of Green-go
Solar Distribution (he's on this list) and knows Victron equipment really
well.  He can probably tell you if I'm off in the weeds...

Let us know what you find out.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 11:25 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
RE-wrenches  wrote:

> I would trigger genset on Soc. Is that what you are doing?
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2023-09-25 9:20 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
>  Hi folks:
>
>
>
> We have a situation where the Sol-Ark 12kW Inverter isn’t able to
> adequately manage the loads and perform auto-gen start other than low
> battery level.   And despite thorough understanding of the customer’s
> initial loads, after he’s bought the system, he’s continued to add more and
> more loads – a severe case of load creep.
>
>
>
> He’s got a 38KW generator and we’re looking for the components to make the
> generator *load responsive* instead of just kicking on when the battery
> voltage is low.  Are there any ideas on switching equipment that can do
> this and work with the Sol-Ark?  We’re waiting for a reply from Sol-Ark,
> but thought you folks may have some ideas.
>
>
>
> The original design was for a larger solar system and inverter, but the
> customer balked at the cost and said he’d reduce his loads accordingly.  
> Unfortunately,
> that has not happened!   Now we’re trying to bend the laws of physics and
> have his 38KW  generator make up the difference. We need to come up with
> a means of accommodating the compromised design and now are faced with
> additional loads -- along with a significantly reduced solar array.   Is
> there a way to make this (2 wire start) generator more load responsive?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any and all advice!
>
>
>
>  Chris Daum
>
>  Oasis Montana Inc.
>
>  406-777-4309 or 4321
>
>  www.oasismontana.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator question

2023-09-25 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 


I would trigger genset on Soc. Is that what you are doing?

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-09-25 9:20 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi folks:

We have a situation where the Sol-Ark 12kW Inverter isn't able to 
adequately manage the loads and perform auto-gen start other than low 
battery level.   And despite thorough understanding of the customer's 
initial loads, after he's bought the system, he's continued to add more 
and more loads - a severe case of load creep.


He's got a 38KW generator and we're looking for the components to make 
the generator _load responsive_ instead of just kicking on when the 
battery voltage is low.  Are there any ideas on switching equipment 
that can do this and work with the Sol-Ark?  We're waiting for a reply 
from Sol-Ark, but thought you folks may have some ideas.


The original design was for a larger solar system and inverter, but the 
customer balked at the cost and said he'd reduce his loads accordingly. 
 Unfortunately, that has not happened!   Now we're trying to bend the 
laws of physics and have his 38KW  generator make up the difference. We 
need to come up with a means of accommodating the compromised design 
and now are faced with additional loads -- along with a significantly 
reduced solar array.   Is there a way to make this (2 wire start) 
generator more load responsive?


Thanks for any and all advice!

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

www.oasismontana.com [1]

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Links:
--
[1] http://www.oasismontana.com
[2] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator question

2023-09-25 Thread Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches 
Generators are load responsive.  They can not be back feed, one approach is
to take heavy loads and have the inverter drop these loading heav load
situations.  bring these loads on line with a PLC

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 11:22 AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

>  Hi folks:
>
>
>
> We have a situation where the Sol-Ark 12kW Inverter isn’t able to
> adequately manage the loads and perform auto-gen start other than low
> battery level.   And despite thorough understanding of the customer’s
> initial loads, after he’s bought the system, he’s continued to add more and
> more loads – a severe case of load creep.
>
>
>
> He’s got a 38KW generator and we’re looking for the components to make the
> generator *load responsive* instead of just kicking on when the battery
> voltage is low.  Are there any ideas on switching equipment that can do
> this and work with the Sol-Ark?  We’re waiting for a reply from Sol-Ark,
> but thought you folks may have some ideas.
>
>
>
> The original design was for a larger solar system and inverter, but the
> customer balked at the cost and said he’d reduce his loads accordingly.  
> Unfortunately,
> that has not happened!   Now we’re trying to bend the laws of physics and
> have his 38KW  generator make up the difference. We need to come up with
> a means of accommodating the compromised design and now are faced with
> additional loads -- along with a significantly reduced solar array.   Is
> there a way to make this (2 wire start) generator more load responsive?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any and all advice!
>
>
>
>  Chris Daum
>
>  Oasis Montana Inc.
>
>  406-777-4309 or 4321
>
>  www.oasismontana.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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