Re: [RE-wrenches] SPI 2014
Hi Daniel, You should patent that magic box idea. Better yet, patent the J-box with an embedded addressable semiconductor switch: Permissive signal from the inverter = switch closed; no signal from the inverter = switch open. Bob's your uncle. Touch-safe PV modules without undue cost or complexity. (That was the magic box I was hoping for but did not see.) I am also concerned about the cost impact of 690.12. On the one hand, we have all these great SunShot initiatives to drive down the cost of solar. On the other hand, we have these new Code requirements that are driving a cost back into the BOS. As a result, it sometimes feels like the one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. (That's part of what makes life on the solarcoaster so exciting! ;-) BTW: I ran into one of your customers (virtually)—the one with a 12 kW ground-mounted residential system in Yellow Springs, Ohio—on a coffee nerd forum. I forget how the PV system came up, but the guy clearly has good taste in espresso equipment and PV installers. Keep up the good work! Best regards, David Brearley Senior Technical Editor, SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Check out this AMAZING music video tribute to SolarPro: http://bit.ly/1qfMCCh On Oct 29, 2014, at 2:45 PM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: > > From: "Daniel Young" > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SPI 2014 > Date: October 29, 2014 2:24:09 PM CDT > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Reply-To: RE-wrenches > > > Thanks for the response David, this is what I was kind of expecting. > > I was hoping for some sort of “magic box” that attached to the first, and > last module in the string, and would shut the string down if it lost signal > from the inverter. Similar to how solar edge works, but with only 1-2 > units/string. > > I like Solar Edge, but we try very hard to offer US made equipment as our > primary offering. Right now it seems that 690.12 is just increasing the US > made premium, to the point where I don’t imagine US inverters will be even 5% > of our residential installation base next year when 2014 NEC hits the > majority of our jurisdictions. Makes me sad. > > With Regards, > > Daniel Young, > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 > NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13 > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SPI 2014
Thanks for the response David, this is what I was kind of expecting. I was hoping for some sort of "magic box" that attached to the first, and last module in the string, and would shut the string down if it lost signal from the inverter. Similar to how solar edge works, but with only 1-2 units/string. I like Solar Edge, but we try very hard to offer US made equipment as our primary offering. Right now it seems that 690.12 is just increasing the US made premium, to the point where I don't imagine US inverters will be even 5% of our residential installation base next year when 2014 NEC hits the majority of our jurisdictions. Makes me sad. With Regards, Daniel Young, NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David Brearley Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:26 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SPI 2014 Daniel, Here's some of what I learned about solutions for 690.12. Residential rapid shutdown SMA's TL-US series inverters can meet the 10 second requirement in 690.12 without further mediation. Therefore you can meet 690.12 with these string inverters by adding a ground-level rapid shutdown controller (an e-stop button) and a rooftop rapid shutdown box (a pass-through wiring box w/ contactors to open each source circuit conductor.) While SMA may be working on an in-house solution for these components, Bentek solar has a third-party solution that will be available very soon: http://www.bentek.com/solar-products/disconnect-systems/rapid-shutdown-syste ms/ This same product works w/ ABB UNO-series inverters, which can also meet the 10-second requirement w/out additional mediation. It sounds like these products will run about $700 in the short-term, but are expected to sell for less than $500 as demand scales. Commercial rapid shutdown Many companies are leading with low-profile inverter skids that allow 3-phase string inverters to be located on a commercial rooftop w/in the array field. In some cases, these mounting products are offered from the inverter company (AE), but there are also many third-party providers (SolarBOS, Bentek, etc.) w/ solutions for ABB inverters, SMA inverters, etc. The motivation to put string inverters on commercial rooftops is largely driven by the cost of arc-fault & rapid shutdown enabled combiners. If you want to use a central inverter, it looks like you'll have to spend 2X as much money on your source circuit combiners as you are now in order to meet these code requirements. David Brearley Senior Technical Editor, SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Check out this AMAZING music video tribute to SolarPro: http://bit.ly/1qfMCCh On Oct 29, 2014, at 12:45 PM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: From: "Daniel Young" Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SPI 14 Post Show Request for Comments Date: October 29, 2014 9:34:48 AM CDT To: "'RE-wrenches'" Reply-To: RE-wrenches I too am interested. Especially after the teaser from SMA that they would unveil their solution to the 2014 NEC 690.12 fiasco at the show. I see nothing on SMA's website as of yet. With Regards, Daniel Young, NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13 -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Loesch Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:21 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] SPI 14 Post Show Request for Comments Gentlemen & Ladies, Anyone who went to the LAS show have any comments? Hopefully, not everything that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Thanks for sharing, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 4031/7973 - Release Date: 10/29/14 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SPI 2014
Daniel, Here's some of what I learned about solutions for 690.12. Residential rapid shutdown SMA's TL-US series inverters can meet the 10 second requirement in 690.12 without further mediation. Therefore you can meet 690.12 with these string inverters by adding a ground-level rapid shutdown controller (an e-stop button) and a rooftop rapid shutdown box (a pass-through wiring box w/ contactors to open each source circuit conductor.) While SMA may be working on an in-house solution for these components, Bentek solar has a third-party solution that will be available very soon: http://www.bentek.com/solar-products/disconnect-systems/rapid-shutdown-systems/ This same product works w/ ABB UNO-series inverters, which can also meet the 10-second requirement w/out additional mediation. It sounds like these products will run about $700 in the short-term, but are expected to sell for less than $500 as demand scales. Commercial rapid shutdown Many companies are leading with low-profile inverter skids that allow 3-phase string inverters to be located on a commercial rooftop w/in the array field. In some cases, these mounting products are offered from the inverter company (AE), but there are also many third-party providers (SolarBOS, Bentek, etc.) w/ solutions for ABB inverters, SMA inverters, etc. The motivation to put string inverters on commercial rooftops is largely driven by the cost of arc-fault & rapid shutdown enabled combiners. If you want to use a central inverter, it looks like you'll have to spend 2X as much money on your source circuit combiners as you are now in order to meet these code requirements. David Brearley Senior Technical Editor, SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Check out this AMAZING music video tribute to SolarPro: http://bit.ly/1qfMCCh On Oct 29, 2014, at 12:45 PM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: > > From: "Daniel Young" > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SPI 14 Post Show Request for Comments > Date: October 29, 2014 9:34:48 AM CDT > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Reply-To: RE-wrenches > > > I too am interested. Especially after the teaser from SMA that they would > unveil their solution to the 2014 NEC 690.12 fiasco at the show. I see > nothing on SMA's website as of yet. > > With Regards, > > Daniel Young, > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 > NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13 > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Bill Loesch > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:21 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] SPI 14 Post Show Request for Comments > > > Gentlemen & Ladies, > > Anyone who went to the LAS show have any comments? Hopefully, not everything > that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. > > Thanks for sharing, > > Bill Loesch > Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar > 314 631 1094 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
