Re: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid
Why not do this system like a AC hydro system. They drive an AC motor, through some control mechanisms, but no inverter, batteries etc. I think that Thompson and Howe is one company that provides such equipment. In working this through a standard inverter, you would have to rectify it, easy. But how do you deal with the MPPT working with the generator output? It wouldn't work like a PV output. I know from experience that trying to use standard batteryless inverters on motors ( such as hydros) doesn't always work. Some inverters ( brands) work, some don't jay peltz power On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:22 AM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: > i saw a commercial unit doing this here in mountshasta about 12 years ago. > > the gas (from gasified wood) was fed into a ford engine, which turned a dc > generator charging a small "buffer bank" of batteries. a standard trace > sw4024 did the selling to the grid. the grid interface was the easy part. > getting the engine to consistently run off of the gasified wood chips was > what nixed the demonstration project. moisture variations and dirt in the > chips was the biggest problem. > > todd > > > > > On Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:08am, "RE Ellison" said: > > > The inverter portion of the process at this point in time would be > > relatively east to do. That's not saying that the inverter will like the > > power quality. Most generators will not put out smooth enough power to allow > > an inverter to connect. The engines that I have seen running on wood gas > > were nowhere near smooth enough to meet an inverters interconnect standards. > > > > > > After all that you get to deal with the regulatory hoops and I doubt that > > would be easy. > > > > Just some thoughts. > > Bob Ellison > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > > Behalf Of Ron Young > > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:51 PM > > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid > > > > I have a customer who wants to use a 50kw generator converted to wood > > gasification to tie into the grid. Any recommendations on the type of grid > > tie gear that will be appropriate? It's a preliminary inquiry but I'm > > guessing a 240v output from the generator, single phase but may be 3ph. I > > see Solectria and SatCon make inverters in this range. Any suggestions > > appreciated > > > > Ron Young > > > > > > > > ___ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > - > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 > > > > - > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 > > > > ___ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid
The comments are interesting and helpful. This is a proposed college research project that will be sponsored by a grant and all these bridges would have to be crossed. Ron On Sep 21, 2014, at 2:08 AM, RE Ellison wrote: > The inverter portion of the process at this point in time would be > relatively east to do. That's not saying that the inverter will like the > power quality. Most generators will not put out smooth enough power to allow > an inverter to connect. The engines that I have seen running on wood gas > were nowhere near smooth enough to meet an inverters interconnect standards. > > > After all that you get to deal with the regulatory hoops and I doubt that > would be easy. > > Just some thoughts. > Bob Ellison > > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Ron Young > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:51 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid > > I have a customer who wants to use a 50kw generator converted to wood > gasification to tie into the grid. Any recommendations on the type of grid > tie gear that will be appropriate? It's a preliminary inquiry but I'm > guessing a 240v output from the generator, single phase but may be 3ph. I > see Solectria and SatCon make inverters in this range. Any suggestions > appreciated > > Ron Young > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid
i saw a commercial unit doing this here in mountshasta about 12 years ago. the gas (from gasified wood) was fed into a ford engine, which turned a dc generator charging a small "buffer bank" of batteries. a standard trace sw4024 did the selling to the grid. the grid interface was the easy part. getting the engine to consistently run off of the gasified wood chips was what nixed the demonstration project. moisture variations and dirt in the chips was the biggest problem. todd On Sunday, September 21, 2014 2:08am, "RE Ellison" said: > The inverter portion of the process at this point in time would be > relatively east to do. That's not saying that the inverter will like the > power quality. Most generators will not put out smooth enough power to allow > an inverter to connect. The engines that I have seen running on wood gas > were nowhere near smooth enough to meet an inverters interconnect standards. > > > After all that you get to deal with the regulatory hoops and I doubt that > would be easy. > > Just some thoughts. > Bob Ellison > > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Ron Young > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:51 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid > > I have a customer who wants to use a 50kw generator converted to wood > gasification to tie into the grid. Any recommendations on the type of grid > tie gear that will be appropriate? It's a preliminary inquiry but I'm > guessing a 240v output from the generator, single phase but may be 3ph. I > see Solectria and SatCon make inverters in this range. Any suggestions > appreciated > > Ron Young > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid
The inverter portion of the process at this point in time would be relatively east to do. That's not saying that the inverter will like the power quality. Most generators will not put out smooth enough power to allow an inverter to connect. The engines that I have seen running on wood gas were nowhere near smooth enough to meet an inverters interconnect standards. After all that you get to deal with the regulatory hoops and I doubt that would be easy. Just some thoughts. Bob Ellison -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ron Young Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:51 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid I have a customer who wants to use a 50kw generator converted to wood gasification to tie into the grid. Any recommendations on the type of grid tie gear that will be appropriate? It's a preliminary inquiry but I'm guessing a 240v output from the generator, single phase but may be 3ph. I see Solectria and SatCon make inverters in this range. Any suggestions appreciated Ron Young ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8211 - Release Date: 09/14/14 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid
That sounds like something the utility would make financially unrealistic to do. Are you sure that your state public service commission and consequently the utility would not see that as purely a competitive generator and require all the normal protective relaying necessary for that? -Original Message- From: "Ron Young" Sent: 9/20/2014 20:50 To: "RE-wrenches" Subject: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid I have a customer who wants to use a 50kw generator converted to wood gasification to tie into the grid. Any recommendations on the type of grid tie gear that will be appropriate? It’s a preliminary inquiry but I’m guessing a 240v output from the generator, single phase but may be 3ph. I see Solectria and SatCon make inverters in this range. Any suggestions appreciated Ron Young ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
