[REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design?
At 11:38 AM 12/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I need to build a secure client-side tool in REBOLfor people to upload files >to a remote server. I would like to use REBOL/View so I can offer an easy >GUI for fiel browsing, selection and transfer. An option I see using REBOL >are: I once posted a question which requires synchronisation. To a certain extent, it is similar to the file upload stuff you are talking about. The feedback from the list is to investigate REBOL EXPRESS. However, I am not up-todate on the various products that RT has in the pipeline. Personally, I am still interested in the synching capabilities of Express. YekSoon -- Attached file included as plaintext by Listar -- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 11/24/2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design?
Well if it is a process that you repeat time and time again, View/IOS may be appropriate. As I understand it you would install it and your problem is solved. Alas alack, when / if we are to see it and for what cost of the various installations I know not. Brett. - Original Message - From: "Jason Cunliffe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:38 AM Subject: [REBOL] Secure file upload tool design? > I need to build a secure client-side tool in REBOLfor people to upload files > to a remote server. I would like to use REBOL/View so I can offer an easy > GUI for fiel browsing, selection and transfer. An option I see using REBOL > are: > > - insist they buy REBOL/ViewPro and use encryption for login+password > handling and then FTP on a special port for data transfer. On the server I > should at least run /ViewPro or /Command. > > Does anyone have improvements to this approach, perhaps one which can be > built using the free REBOL/View or even REBOL/Core? > Examples/caveats? > > thanks > ./Jason > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Network Guru...
Brett, At 01:22 PM 12/19/2001 +1100, you wrote: > > What is > > concerning me is that, while security is relaxed, a hacker might enter my > > computer and do mischief. But you are saying that while the script with > > the forever loop is running, it alone has control of any port it (or the > > script it calls) opens. Is that correct? > >I believe so. Great! that is the answer I was hoping to hear. I appreciate you time in answering. Thanks, Louis -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design?
Jason, another idea is to send the 'sister emails' (broken up data) over different transportation protocols. Enjoy!! Ammon - Original Message - From: "Jason Cunliffe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design? > > Hi Jason, > > > > encryption can be achive with just core > > but it is better not discuss it on the list > > (per RT request) > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Hi Tom > > Thanks for your reply. I am listening ... > > ./Jason > > > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Jason Cunliffe wrote: > > > > > > You could always implement encryption yourself and > > > > send the files between REBOL client program to > > > > REBOL server using a custom protocol. There are any > > > > number of free sources describing cryptographic > > > > algorithms on the web; the main problem with > > > > implementing them in REBOL may be performance, > > > > since REBOL isn't entirely a speed demon for > > > > math, as I understand it. > > > > > > Thanks. Yes I tend to believe the easiest adn often most effective > security > > > is simply small customized tools designed to play together on both > client > > > and server. For that one can use almost anything, images, flash, rebol > .. 6 > > > different sister emails designed to be re-assembled etc. > > > > > > Am I right in understanding that the cryptographic needs are only for > > > generating codes? They do not need to run all the time? If so, REBOL's > math > > > crunching speed is not really an obstacle. > > > > > > Today I upgraded my version of F-Secures SSH-Telnet Client. They ahave a > > > really cool installation tool. It opens a window and then tells you to > move > > > the mouse around. As you do so, a fuel guauge graphic fills pregresses. > The > > > softwar uses the manually genrated, random, hard-to-reproduce mouse xy > > > coordinates as seed data for the SSH code. This takes only about 7 > seconds > > > to complete. Seems like a very neat way to create secure pascodes on the > > > fly. I hope to try a native REBOL version. > > > > > > Other approaches I have been wondering about: using small photos with > > > embedded data in them. The advantage there is an ancient humanly > readable > > > verification combined with encrypted invisble data. A hybrid woudl be to > > > generate small artworks using the mouse tracking.. in effect genreate > art to > > > craeet imagery which also embdeds encrypted data within. These could > then be > > > used as iconographic security tokens. > > > > > > ./Jason > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > > > subject, without the quotes. > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > > subject, without the quotes. > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Network Guru...
> Are you saying that when security is relaxed to run a script, it is relaxed > only for that script? I wrote my own scripts, and trust them. It is relaxed for the Rebol session the script runs in. It is not something that is associated with the script. Conceptually there is a minimum set of permissions that your script needs in order to complete successfully. If the Rebol session your script runs in has a higher level of security than what you script can run in you will get the dialogue box popping up. Or if you are running the session in quite mode, then the session is terminated because it is treated as a failure. > What is > concerning me is that, while security is relaxed, a hacker might enter my > computer and do mischief. But you are saying that while the script with > the forever loop is running, it alone has control of any port it (or the > script it calls) opens. Is that correct? I believe so. > I did read the documentation, but it did not seem to directly answer my > questions, and I would like direct answers just for peace of mind. Fair enough. The points should be made clear. Keep asking :) Brett. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design?
> Hi Jason, > > encryption can be achive with just core > but it is better not discuss it on the list > (per RT request) > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Tom Thanks for your reply. I am listening ... ./Jason > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Jason Cunliffe wrote: > > > > You could always implement encryption yourself and > > > send the files between REBOL client program to > > > REBOL server using a custom protocol. There are any > > > number of free sources describing cryptographic > > > algorithms on the web; the main problem with > > > implementing them in REBOL may be performance, > > > since REBOL isn't entirely a speed demon for > > > math, as I understand it. > > > > Thanks. Yes I tend to believe the easiest adn often most effective security > > is simply small customized tools designed to play together on both client > > and server. For that one can use almost anything, images, flash, rebol .. 6 > > different sister emails designed to be re-assembled etc. > > > > Am I right in understanding that the cryptographic needs are only for > > generating codes? They do not need to run all the time? If so, REBOL's math > > crunching speed is not really an obstacle. > > > > Today I upgraded my version of F-Secures SSH-Telnet Client. They ahave a > > really cool installation tool. It opens a window and then tells you to move > > the mouse around. As you do so, a fuel guauge graphic fills pregresses. The > > softwar uses the manually genrated, random, hard-to-reproduce mouse xy > > coordinates as seed data for the SSH code. This takes only about 7 seconds > > to complete. Seems like a very neat way to create secure pascodes on the > > fly. I hope to try a native REBOL version. > > > > Other approaches I have been wondering about: using small photos with > > embedded data in them. The advantage there is an ancient humanly readable > > verification combined with encrypted invisble data. A hybrid woudl be to > > generate small artworks using the mouse tracking.. in effect genreate art to > > craeet imagery which also embdeds encrypted data within. These could then be > > used as iconographic security tokens. > > > > ./Jason > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > > subject, without the quotes. > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
> But the goal is to not keep making the example shown with the C, MatLab, and > Pearl smaller, but to make a more verbose accurate portrayal of the original > puzzle in Rebol. Here is a very verbose version of my original solution with Sunanda's explanation idea incorporated: REBOL [] box: [Box1 Box2 Box3] wins: 0 loop number-of-games: 100 [ pick-a: func [what] [copy/part random what 1] prize: pick-a box choice1: pick-a box remaining-box: exclude box opened-box: exclude box union prize choice1 choice2: pick-a remaining-box if win: equal? prize choice2 [ wins: wins + 1 ] print join "I choose " [ choice1 ". " opened-box " opened. I switch to " choice2 ". Prize in " prize ". I " either win ["win"]["lose"] "." ] ] print wins / number-of-games > I'm then going to go see if they can do the same in Pearl, or language of > choice. The choice of variable name is going to impact on the goal of the smallest verbose program. For this goal I believe one should use a meaningful name - something that does not require a legend to understand it immediately in it's own context. Brett. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design?
Hi Jason, encryption can be achive with just core but it is better not discuss it on the list (per RT request) [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Jason Cunliffe wrote: > > You could always implement encryption yourself and > > send the files between REBOL client program to > > REBOL server using a custom protocol. There are any > > number of free sources describing cryptographic > > algorithms on the web; the main problem with > > implementing them in REBOL may be performance, > > since REBOL isn't entirely a speed demon for > > math, as I understand it. > > Thanks. Yes I tend to believe the easiest adn often most effective security > is simply small customized tools designed to play together on both client > and server. For that one can use almost anything, images, flash, rebol .. 6 > different sister emails designed to be re-assembled etc. > > Am I right in understanding that the cryptographic needs are only for > generating codes? They do not need to run all the time? If so, REBOL's math > crunching speed is not really an obstacle. > > Today I upgraded my version of F-Secures SSH-Telnet Client. They ahave a > really cool installation tool. It opens a window and then tells you to move > the mouse around. As you do so, a fuel guauge graphic fills pregresses. The > softwar uses the manually genrated, random, hard-to-reproduce mouse xy > coordinates as seed data for the SSH code. This takes only about 7 seconds > to complete. Seems like a very neat way to create secure pascodes on the > fly. I hope to try a native REBOL version. > > Other approaches I have been wondering about: using small photos with > embedded data in them. The advantage there is an ancient humanly readable > verification combined with encrypted invisble data. A hybrid woudl be to > generate small artworks using the mouse tracking.. in effect genreate art to > craeet imagery which also embdeds encrypted data within. These could then be > used as iconographic security tokens. > > ./Jason > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
Hi, Ladislav, Ladislav Mecir wrote: > > But > > w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] > > is 34 bytes... > ... > > what should the (random 2 / 3) do? > It returns a random real number bounded (on both sides ;-) by 0.667 The post was, of course, tongue-in-cheek. I was simply demonstrating a program that was so compact that all traces of reasoning about its behavior and correctness had long since evaporated. As to what (random 2 / 3) *should* do, as opposed to what it actually *does* do, we find the following: USAGE: RANDOM value /seed /secure /only DESCRIPTION: Returns a random value of the same datatype. RANDOM is an action value. ARGUMENTS: value -- Maximum value of result (Type: any) which might lead one to assume that (random 2 / 3) would yield a random decimal value between 0.0 and 0.6... However, I've been vigorously scolded for believing that zero is a number and that consistency is a virtue, so I'll have to say simply that I have no officially publishable opinion on what it *should* do. ;-) -jn- -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design?
> You could always implement encryption yourself and > send the files between REBOL client program to > REBOL server using a custom protocol. There are any > number of free sources describing cryptographic > algorithms on the web; the main problem with > implementing them in REBOL may be performance, > since REBOL isn't entirely a speed demon for > math, as I understand it. Thanks. Yes I tend to believe the easiest adn often most effective security is simply small customized tools designed to play together on both client and server. For that one can use almost anything, images, flash, rebol .. 6 different sister emails designed to be re-assembled etc. Am I right in understanding that the cryptographic needs are only for generating codes? They do not need to run all the time? If so, REBOL's math crunching speed is not really an obstacle. Today I upgraded my version of F-Secures SSH-Telnet Client. They ahave a really cool installation tool. It opens a window and then tells you to move the mouse around. As you do so, a fuel guauge graphic fills pregresses. The softwar uses the manually genrated, random, hard-to-reproduce mouse xy coordinates as seed data for the SSH code. This takes only about 7 seconds to complete. Seems like a very neat way to create secure pascodes on the fly. I hope to try a native REBOL version. Other approaches I have been wondering about: using small photos with embedded data in them. The advantage there is an ancient humanly readable verification combined with encrypted invisble data. A hybrid woudl be to generate small artworks using the mouse tracking.. in effect genreate art to craeet imagery which also embdeds encrypted data within. These could then be used as iconographic security tokens. ./Jason -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
Hi, <> But w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] is 34 bytes... Limbo, anyone? ;-) -jn- -- What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult. -- Sigmund Freud joel}dot}neely}at}FIX}PUNCTUATION}fedex}dot}com <> what should the (random 2 / 3) do? Cheers Ladislav -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Secure file upload tool design?
--- Jason Cunliffe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I need to build a secure client-side tool in > REBOLfor people to upload files > to a remote server. I would like to use REBOL/View > so I can offer an easy > GUI for fiel browsing, selection and transfer. An > option I see using REBOL > are: > > - insist they buy REBOL/ViewPro and use encryption > for login+password > handling and then FTP on a special port for data > transfer. On the server I > should at least run /ViewPro or /Command. > > Does anyone have improvements to this approach, > perhaps one which can be > built using the free REBOL/View or even REBOL/Core? > Examples/caveats? You could always implement encryption yourself and send the files between REBOL client program to REBOL server using a custom protocol. There are any number of free sources describing cryptographic algorithms on the web; the main problem with implementing them in REBOL may be performance, since REBOL isn't entirely a speed demon for math, as I understand it. Chris Dicely __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Dynamically adding boxes to layout
On 19-Dec-01, Robert M. Muench wrote: > Hi, I have to followig problem: I'm doing some calculation that > results in some object positions. Now I want to draw boxes with > these calculcated positions. The number of boxes is not known until > run-time. > It's easy to do it statically: > view layout [ > box 25x25 > box 10x10 > ] > Ok, but how do I add further boxes at run-time? Robert Depending on what you're after, using View's Draw dialect may be the way to go... view layout [ b: box black 400x200 effect [draw[]] button "Add Box" [ append b/effect/draw reduce [ 'pen random 255.255.255 'fill-pen random 255.255.255 'box random 399x199 random 399x199 ] show b ] ] Each click of the button there adds a box and its color definitions to b's 'draw block, and with it being a block, you can add and remove its contents at will, not to mention adding lines, circles, polygons, text and images too. -- Carl Read -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
Carl Read wrote: > Like to write the English dialect Andrew? (: I'm still learning the English dialect... :-) How about the stock broker dialect? Stockbroker-Dialect [ sell all shares of Microsoft buy shares in Rebol - get loan if necessary - to maximum of $11.00 ] I think specialist or expert language would be easier. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/ -><- -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
Hi, Romano, Romano Paolo Tenca wrote: > > > c) Humans are excellent at recognizing patterns, even in the > > presence of noise, many kinds of errors, and considerable > > variation (even of the never-seen-before kind). When I'm > > writing to another human being, I can move quickly because > > I can trust her/him to understant me even if I make a tpyo. > > Humans have at least two levels of redundancy: syntactic and > semantic. Humans understand much from contexts, and they can > correct transmission errors understanding contexts. It is something > that many could call "intuition". Without AI (if it is possible, i > am all except an Hofstander fan), problems like telephone numbers > are insoluble. > I'm sure we are in agreement. I've tended to state it as "not 100% solvable", but of course I'm always open to a nice way to get 95% without too much cost! -jn- -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Dynamically adding boxes to layout
Hi Robert, REBOL [] window: layout/size [ box 25x25 gray box 10x10 green button "Click Me!" [ append window/pane make-face/spec 'box [offset: 140x140 size: 20x20 color: red] append window/pane make-face/spec 'box [offset: 180x140 size: 20x20 color: blue] append window/pane make-face/spec 'box [offset: 220x140 size: 20x20 color: yellow] show window ] ] 400x200 view window -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
Hi Joel, > "An article in the 23-Oct-2000 issue of the New York Times > ... talks about how Microsoft has eliminated words from its > thesaurus so as to "not suggest words that may have offensive > uses or provide offensive definitions for any words". Entering > a word like "idiot" yields no hits in Word 2000 unlike the > numerous hits in Word 97." Perhaps Bill Gates has seen the South Park film. > c) Humans are excellent at recognizing patterns, even in the > presence of noise, many kinds of errors, and considerable > variation (even of the never-seen-before kind). When I'm > writing to another human being, I can move quickly because > I can trust her/him to understant me even if I make a tpyo. Humans have at least two levels of redundancy: syntactic and semantic. Humans understand much from contexts, and they can correct transmission errors understanding contexts. It is something that many could call "intuition". Without AI (if it is possible, i am all except an Hofstander fan), problems like telephone numbers are insoluble. --- Ciao Romano -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Dynamically adding boxes to layout
Robert - the help in the ref-words has a pretty good example on this under the View -> Show keyword out: layout [ h1 "Show Example" t1: text "Text 1" t2: text "Text 2" ] view/new out wait 1 remove find out/pane t2 show out wait 1 remove find out/pane t1 show out wait 1 append out/pane t2 show out wait 1 unview I'd expect you could append out/pane with something if you want to add an item. - Porter - Original Message - From: "Robert M. Muench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Rebollist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: [REBOL] Dynamically adding boxes to layout > Hi, I have to followig problem: I'm doing some calculation that results in some > object positions. Now I want to draw boxes with these calculcated positions. The > number of boxes is not known until run-time. > > It's easy to do it statically: > > view layout [ > box 25x25 > box 10x10 > ] > > Ok, but how do I add further boxes at run-time? Robert > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Objects, references & values
Hi Robert, > IMO the concept of a get-path is missing. I would like to write: > > value: to-get-path obj1/name > > This should result in a reference to obj1/name and not the value. If i have understand well what you ask, this my answer: nameref: in obj1 'name Now 'nameref is a pointer to a word which is linked to the field called "name" in the object 'obj1. obj1/name: "robert3" == "robert3" To retrieve the changed value: >> get nameref == "robert3" To change it: set nameref "robert4" == "robert4" Proof: >> get nameref == "robert4" >> obj1/name == "robert4" Another method: x: bind [name] in obj1 'self Now x is a block which contains as the first item the word 'name linked to the object obj1: x: bind [name] in obj1 'self == [name] >> get first x == "robert4" I can reach the same result inserting the word pointed by nameref in a void block, the word always conserves its link with obj1: >> x2: head insert copy [] nameref == [name] >> get first x2 == "robert4" or with reduce: >> x3: reduce [nameref] == [name] >> get first x3 == "robert4" If we want to make things more difficult, we can use the third of obj1: >> third obj1 == [name: "robert4" note: "Rebol"] >> set first third obj1 "robert5" == "robert5" >> third obj1 == [name: "robert5" note: "Rebol"] >> get nameref == "robert5" >> get first x == "robert5" >> get first x2 == "robert5" >> get first x3 == "robert5" --- Ciao Romano -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Dynamically adding boxes to layout
Hi, I have to followig problem: I'm doing some calculation that results in some object positions. Now I want to draw boxes with these calculcated positions. The number of boxes is not known until run-time. It's easy to do it statically: view layout [ box 25x25 box 10x10 ] Ok, but how do I add further boxes at run-time? Robert -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: What computers are for (was: Perl is to stupid ...)
--- Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I hope this is a tongue-in-cheek comment! If not, > you are making the fatal error that practically > every computer scientist has made at one point or > another: expecting that human beings will modify > their behaviour to suit the computer rather than > the opposite. That always happens with technology, to a degree, so I'm not sure why it shouldn't happen with computers. Consumers always expect to minimize their changes, and often those making the tool expect them to make more than is reasonable; reality ends up being somewhere in between. > This isn't impossible (voice-recoginition > software was, and to a large extent still is, > a good example of this), I'm not sure it is; the requirement to change behavior is one of the (many) reasons no one I know personally uses voice recognition software. > but it is far from ideal. It appears to me > that the computing industry seems to have > lost sight of the real purpose of computers: > they are (or at least were) supposed to make > life easier for the user. Different tools *usually* require changes of behavior and still make life easier. > It's more than a bit of a kludge when you > tell a user "this program can understand > your documents, but only provided that you > write them in this very constrained, > artificial form which allows little > of the form and structure you typical > documents contain". Perhaps it is. Its better than nothing at all, and may still have use in limited markets, though. Arguably, unless your program is smart enough to understand meaning in language -- a strong AI -- its not going to be as good as a human at recognizing the content in documents. That's just a given. > > It's a bit like expecting a user to learn C just so > that they can type in a letter! (not that I'm > complaining about C you understand - I use it every > day - but it's hardly something you can expect the > average user to learn) > > No, either we solve the problems caused by rule set > size without forcing the user into overly artifical > situations or automatic document parsing will be > constrained to simplistic and case-specific > situations. Well, sure, I'd suspect the latter will remain the case for quite some time. Chris __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Network Guru...
Andrew and Porter, A virus scan did not find any virus. After looking at the error messages generated by the back up utility, it appears that the ZoneAlarm alert was a result of the backup utility trying to back up rebol and eudora, both of which were online at the time. I think I just being overly cautious due to having some nightmare data losses in the past. Thanks for responding. Louis At 07:49 AM 12/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Or it could just be that since the Tape Backup is a service - it may have >some remote administration hooks in it... Thus it may open itself as a >network "server" in order to accessed via a domain controller, or however it >is that one does remote admin on NT. > >- Porter > > >- Original Message - >From: "Andrew Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:34 AM >Subject: [REBOL] Re: Network Guru... > > > > > I have just started a back up using the NT Tape Backup Utility, and > > > ZoneAlarm is telling me that the backup utility wants to access the > > > internet? Why would the NT Tape Backup Utility need to access the > > internet? > > > > Perhaps you should do a full virus scan? You just might have a virus on > > computer. > > > > Andrew Martin > > ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Secure file upload tool design?
I need to build a secure client-side tool in REBOLfor people to upload files to a remote server. I would like to use REBOL/View so I can offer an easy GUI for fiel browsing, selection and transfer. An option I see using REBOL are: - insist they buy REBOL/ViewPro and use encryption for login+password handling and then FTP on a special port for data transfer. On the server I should at least run /ViewPro or /Command. Does anyone have improvements to this approach, perhaps one which can be built using the free REBOL/View or even REBOL/Core? Examples/caveats? thanks ./Jason -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Network Guru...
Hi Brett, I really appreciate your help. At 03:10 PM 12/18/2001 +1100, you wrote: >Security is relaxed for the lifetime of the Rebol interpreter instance you >started - unless you set it back. You wording makes me think that you >believe %sendfiles.r is the script that you are apply the security setting >to. This is not the case. You are applying the security setting to the Rebol >interpreter instance that is evaluating the script that has the "forever" >loop in it, or whatever calls it. > > > Is there some > > way the script itself can set security---open the door, do its work, then > > shut and lock the door? > >I'm not sure you need that because I'm presuming you know exactly what your >scripts are doing, probably because you >wrote them yourself and so you trust them. If you run your trusted scripts >in a relaxed security setting and are confident that those trusted scripts >have no possibility of calling or evaluation untrusted scripts or code then >I don't think you have a problem. Just let them do their work. > >If you are using someone else's scripts and you are not confident it is trus >tworthy in regards to security, then consider >asking about the suspect code on the Rebol mailing list. Security in >relation to Rebol hasn't been discussed too much yet. > >I suggest you read the security section of the Core manual and create some >dummy test scripts to see what happens in various situations. Are you saying that when security is relaxed to run a script, it is relaxed only for that script? I wrote my own scripts, and trust them. What is concerning me is that, while security is relaxed, a hacker might enter my computer and do mischief. But you are saying that while the script with the forever loop is running, it alone has control of any port it (or the script it calls) opens. Is that correct? I did read the documentation, but it did not seem to directly answer my questions, and I would like direct answers just for peace of mind. Louis -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
Hi, Cal, You caught me with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek! Cal Dixon wrote: > > > But > > > > w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] > > > > is 34 bytes... > > doesn't really compute correctly, it gives a constant result. > But it's the CORRECT constant result! ;-) > >>> w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] >== 33.2 >>> w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] >== 33.2 >>> w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] >== 33.2 > > if that counted we could use: > >w: random 2 / 3 ?? w > > 20 bytes ;-) > Or even 2 / 3 FIVE BYTES! -- In some countries being a foriegner who is likely to be carrying cash is a traffic violation. -- Aaron Watters joel'dot'neely'at'fedex'FIX'PUNCTUATION'dot'com -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
Hi, James, Interesting point... James Marsden wrote: > > It seems everyone since Gabriele has removed the randomness > factor from their equations! > > random/seed now > > or some similar quasi-random seed value needs to be chosen or > you repeat the same pattern every time! > That's why Perl adopted the convention that, if you haven't seeded the PRNG before the first use, it will do so automatically, based on TOD and other hard-to-predict-or-replicate data. The other side of the coin is that you may WANT your PRNG to give the same values every time you run your code (at least during development and testing) so that you can see the effect of any changes in a reliable way. Finally, whether freshly seeded or not, if the PRNG is unbiased the long-term statistics will converge to the same answer. -jn- -- Now when you say that souls don't develop because people become distracted... hey, has anyone noticed that building there before? -- Steve Chapel joel|dot|FIX|PUNCTUATION|neely|at|fedex|dot|com -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
Hi, Carl, [Metaphysicomputational rambling ahead; proceed at your own risk!] Carl Read wrote: > > On 18-Dec-01, Joel Neely wrote: > > > Whether a human manufactures the rules, or a piece of AI > > software attempts to do so (and I suspect the human will > > do a better job at this point in history), the problem > > remains that the size of the rule set itself undergoes a > > combinatorial explosion as we try to take into account the > > variations in the data. > > Perhaps, instead of trying to make software understand documents > written any old which way by humans, we should create strictly > formal versions of current human languages that can be tested for > correctness by computer? We'd then be able to have documents that > could be examined by computer without the need to worry about an > infinate number of special cases. > That's been tried before. It was called COBOL. ;-) More recently, it's been tried again, and called mS Word. =8-0 Seriously, I think the proposal breaks down for two main reasons: 1) It merely displaces the issue -- whatever tool(s) enforce your "formal versions" and "correctness" rules would *STILL* need the rules to be defined, and users would *STILL* be annoyed with poor performance, false positives, and false negatives. 2) It assumes that we know in advance which rules are to be enforced based on possible future uses of the text being created/vetted. To elaborate (optional reading ;-)... 1) Word tries to vet spelling, grammar, punctuation, and typography "on the fly" as the user is typing. This process is a) is incredibly annoying/distracting, especially when writing a draft of a document I know I will subsequently revise and tidy up, but am trying to get "on paper" quickly; b) merely displaces the recognition problem to mS, because code/rules *still* must be designed to determine when something resembles e.g., a date or phone number closely enough that it can be put in "standard" format or challenged with a "Did you really mean...?" message (see point (1.a) above!); and this is even more annoying/frustrating when the rules are wrong, incomplete, or inadequate; and c) frightening, as I don't want a commercial entity taking control of my language, regardless of their own agenda. See http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/26/1334257&mode=thread for a story titled "Microsoft Edits English" that begins "An article in the 23-Oct-2000 issue of the New York Times ... talks about how Microsoft has eliminated words from its thesaurus so as to "not suggest words that may have offensive uses or provide offensive definitions for any words". Entering a word like "idiot" yields no hits in Word 2000 unlike the numerous hits in Word 97." d) problematic due to international/cultural variation; consider the controversy over conversion of all European currencies to the Euro, and the decades-old-and-still-barely-begun efforts to get the US public to use the metric system. It is quite clear to me that the *ONLY* reasonable way to write dates is 2001/12/18, and I can't understand why you haven't already figured that out for yourself (...I'm JOKING!!! ;-) 2) Human language is "living" and dynamic in the same sense as other human activities. a) We may not know in advance that we'd need to scan my memos from last year to find all of the email addresses, dates, phone numbers, street addresses, names of people who worked in the department then but have transferred to other jobs, program names and version numbers, hostnames for servers in one of our labs... b) New usages, abbreviations, conventions, etc. are being created all the time, because what we have to say, and the frequency with which we have to say it, is constantly changing; rigid standardization stifles expressivity and leaves us in a bland, barren, and plastic-laminated mental landscape -- ya' want fries with that memo? c) Humans are excellent at recognizing patterns, even in the presence of noise, many kinds of errors, and considerable variation (even of the never-seen-before kind). When I'm writing to another human being, I can move quickly because I can trust her/him to understant me even if I make a tpyo. Finally, the discussion of how dates appear in running text is IMHO only a basic exemplar of a much more pervasive issue: whenever we (and especially our programs/systems) interact with human beings in the "real world" the burden should be on *us*and*our*artifacts* to do the adapting to their way of doing/expressing things. That's as true in the design of physical workflow as it is in the design of computational artifacts. As you can tell from my email address, I work for a big company that employs lots of people in lots of places/cultures to do lots of work that must happen
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
> But > > w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] > > is 34 bytes... doesn't really compute correctly, it gives a constant result. >> w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] == 33.2 >> w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] == 33.2 >> w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] == 33.2 if that counted we could use: w: random 2 / 3 ?? w 20 bytes ;-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Network Guru...
Or it could just be that since the Tape Backup is a service - it may have some remote administration hooks in it... Thus it may open itself as a network "server" in order to accessed via a domain controller, or however it is that one does remote admin on NT. - Porter - Original Message - From: "Andrew Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:34 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Network Guru... > > I have just started a back up using the NT Tape Backup Utility, and > > ZoneAlarm is telling me that the backup utility wants to access the > > internet? Why would the NT Tape Backup Utility need to access the > internet? > > Perhaps you should do a full virus scan? You just might have a virus on > computer. > > Andrew Martin > ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/ > -><- > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > w: 100 loop w[w: w - last random[0 0 1]] > > 40 bytes, and counting, > But w: 100 loop w[w: w - random 2 / 3] is 34 bytes... Limbo, anyone? ;-) -jn- -- What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult. -- Sigmund Freud joel}dot}neely}at}FIX}PUNCTUATION}fedex}dot}com -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BY TES
Hallo Sunanda, Rebolers all, it looks like you are having a lot of fun with this kind of puzzles. Maybe this site will interest you: Monty: http://www.cut-the-knot.com/hall.html Home: http://www.cut-the-knot.com/ Other similar links: http://cartalk.cars.com/Tools/monty.pl http://www.shodor.org/interactivate/activities/monty3/ http://www.google.com/search?q=Monty+Hall > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > The program as presented is about 350 bytes I reserve the > right to reduce it > to under 250 bytes for a "final version". I am also fairly > confident that I > can do a full GUI implementation in under 1K Uhm, sounds interesting! A small interactive math puzzles with animated man and sliding doors... Mario -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Objects, references & values
Hi, up to now I mostly used Rebol to handle some simple structured data. Now I want to use datastructures to handle more complext data and there I have some problems with. Please keep in mind that I'm an old C++ programmer and might not have switched my mind to see datastructures the rebolized way. Here is my test proggy: Rebol[] myobj!: make object! [ name: string! 0 note: string! 0 ] myobjects1: make hash! [] myobjects2: make hash! [] obj1: make myobj! [name: "Robert" note: "Rebol"] ; this is an obj1 reference insert myobjects1 reduce [1 obj1] ; this is the value obj1/name insert myobjects2 reduce [obj1/name 1] ; this is the value obj1/name value: obj1/name ?? obj1 ?? value ?? myobjects1 ?? myobjects2 ; changing the object obj1 and all of its references obj1/name: "robert" ?? obj1 ?? value ?? myobjects1 ?? myobjects2 halt As you can see, if I reference object-words, I get the value and not the reference to the origianl value. For the C++ developer this means: using obj1 somewhere gives me a pointer using obj1/ gives me the value How can I create datsstructures with objects if I can't get references to the original object all the time? I want to have one single object being the base and than use references to the object or parts of it all over my script. Any idea? IMO the concept of a get-path is missing. I would like to write: value: to-get-path obj1/name This should result in a reference to obj1/name and not the value. -- Robert M. Münch IT & Management Freelancer Mobile: +49 (0)177 2452 802 Fax : +49 (0)721 8408 9112 Web : http://www.robertmuench.de -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BY TES
Hi Riechart, > But the goal is to not keep making the example shown with the C, MatLab, and > Pearl smaller, but to make a more verbose accurate portrayal of the original > puzzle in Rebol. > > I'm then going to go see if they can do the same in Pearl, or language of > choice. Okay, I'm game. Here's a version of the Monty Simulator that plays the game 100 times, and prints the result for each play, and a final total. Our competitor swaps each time. To compare like with like, other programs shou;d exactly replicate the format of the printed lines. The program as presented is about 350 bytes I reserve the right to reduce it to under 250 bytes for a "final version". I am also fairly confident that I can do a full GUI implementation in under 1K Rebol [] N: 100 Loop N [ D: random/secure [Red Green Blue] C: pick D random 3 prin["I pick"D/1] M: next D if find M C[alter M C] prin[". M shows"M/1] either 1 = length? M [prin [". I swap to"C]] [prin [". I swap to"M/2]] prin[". Car was behind" C] either D/1 = C [print ". I lose."N: N - 1] [Print ". I win."] ] print ["Wins:" N] Notes on variables: D - for Doors array C - colour of door that hides the car M - for Monty's two doors N for loop count and wins (using Ryan's ingenious two-for-the-price of one trick) Print line format is: I pick [col]. M shows [col]. I swap to [col]. Car was behind [col]. I [win/lose]. where [col] = colour name. last line: wins: nn Sunanda. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
Hi Carl, having fun, aren't you? This one is shorter: loop w: 100[w: w - any random[0 0 1]] -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
On 18-Dec-01, Carl Read wrote: > Perhaps, instead of trying to make software understand documents > written any old which way by humans, we should create strictly formal > versions of current human languages that can be tested for > correctness by computer? We'd then be able to have documents that > could be examined by computer without the need to worry about an > infinate number of special cases. What a computer understands is a small subset of what a human understands. How would you train people to write in this limited formal language? It is equivalent to learning to communicate with a horse. The best solution here is probably the "form" structure used on web pages. This limits the response to what can be handled automatically, and the syntax of the replies can be checked before being acted on, with an error message back to the user who gives an invalid answer. In other words, database entry for ordinary semi-trained users. However, if you are doing a marketing survey, for instance, you may still want some free text answers. These have to be either analysed by hand or subjected to a fuzzy search for key words (wrong spelling is common). Regards -- Don Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
On 18-Dec-01, Joel Neely wrote: > That's an interesting (although severely non-trivial) approach to > the development issue, but I was describing a property of the > problem space itself. Using myself as a case in point, I made up > a list of the ways I've actually seen US phone numbers written or > typed/typeset: > > 551-1211 > 800-552-1212 >1-800-553-1213 >1+800-554-1214 > 800/555-1215 > (800)556-1216 >(800) 557-1217 > 800.558.1218 >1.800.559.1219 The rule here seems to be "a set of from 2 to 4 strings of 1 to 4 digits, delimited by +, -, (, ), /, . or "ext or EXT". I guess the first thing is to look for any string of 8 to 24 characters containing only the above characters and spaces. The first character must be a digit or (, so you can use them as a trigger to start examining the next few characters. The false positives are a problem as a product code might be formatted exactly like a phone number, especially like your first example. My phone number is 44-1642-881220 Regards -- Don Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
James pointed out: > random/seed now Equivalent code needs to be added to the C/C++ versions too. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/ -><- -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: What computers are for (was: Perl is to stupid ...)
Carl Read wrote:
> Perhaps, instead of trying to make software understand documents
> written any old which way by humans, we should create strictly formal
> versions of current human languages that can be tested for
> correctness by computer? We'd then be able to have documents that
> could be examined by computer without the need to worry about an
> infinate number of special cases.
I hope this is a tongue-in-cheek comment! If not, you are making the fatal
error that practically every computer scientist has made at one point or
another: expecting that human beings will modify their behaviour to suit
the computer rather than the opposite. This isn't impossible
(voice-recoginition software was, and to a large extent still is, a good
example of this), but it is far from ideal. It appears to me that the
computing industry seems to have lost sight of the real purpose of
computers: they are (or at least were) supposed to make life easier for
the user. It's more than a bit of a kludge when you tell a user "this
program can understand your documents, but only provided that you write
them in this very constrained, artificial form which allows little of the
form and structure you typical documents contain".
It's a bit like expecting a user to learn C just so that they can type in a
letter! (not that I'm complaining about C you understand - I use it every
day - but it's hardly something you can expect the average user to learn)
No, either we solve the problems caused by rule set size without forcing the
user into overly artifical situations or automatic document parsing will be
constrained to simplistic and case-specific situations.
Chris
--
.--{ http://www.starforge.co.uk }-. .--.
=[ Explorer2260, Designer and Coder \=\ P: TexMaker, ROACH, site \
=[___You_will_obey_your_corporate_masters___]==[ Stack: EETmTmTRRSS-- ]
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[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
It seems everyone since Gabriele has removed the randomness factor from their equations! random/seed now or some similar quasi-random seed value needs to be chosen or you repeat the same pattern every time! just my 2c :) James. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
On 18-Dec-01, Andrew Martin wrote: > Reichart wrote: >> 1. Q: CARL WROTE: Perhaps, instead of trying to make software >> understand documents written any old which way by humans, we should >> create strictly formal versions of current human languages that can >> be tested for correctness by computer? We'd then be able to have >> documents that could be >> examined by computer without the need to worry about an infinate >> number of special cases. > Hm. I thought the answer is Rebol! :-) Like to write the English dialect Andrew? (: -- Carl Read -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
On 18-Dec-01, Reichart wrote: > Hey Sunanda and Ryan, > All very cool. > But the goal is to not keep making the example shown with the C, > MatLab, and Pearl smaller, Aw gee... But see below... (: > I really enjoy reading these examples though. I have learned about > three new things about Rebol I did not know! Me too. >> And, losing the readability as you suggest, this is 8 bytes shorter >> still: >> w: 100 loop w[w: w - last random[0 0 1]] >> 40 bytes, and counting, >> Sunanda. w: 100 loop w[w: w - any random[0 0 1]] 39... -- Carl Read -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle (in K)
A discussion involving terseness wouldn't be complete without a K (kx.com) example: `0:$+/(100_draw 3)=1 (20 bytes, including 4 bytes of a print statement) ;-) --Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
Reichart wrote: > 1. Q: CARL WROTE: Perhaps, instead of trying to make software understand > documents written any old which way by humans, we should create strictly > formal versions of current human languages that can be tested for > correctness by computer? We'd then be able to have documents that could be > examined by computer without the need to worry about an infinate number of > special cases. Hm. I thought the answer is Rebol! :-) Andrew Martin Half on and 'alf off the page... ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/ -><- -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner.
1. Q: CARL WROTE: Perhaps, instead of trying to make software understand documents written any old which way by humans, we should create strictly formal versions of current human languages that can be tested for correctness by computer? We'd then be able to have documents that could be examined by computer without the need to worry about an infinate number of special cases. A: And when "people" make mistakes; we debit their bank account! I love your plan. Reichart... [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Be useful." -Original Message- From: Carl Read [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [REBOL] Re: Perl is to stupid to understand this 1 liner. On 18-Dec-01, Joel Neely wrote: > Whether a human manufactures the rules, or a piece of AI software > attempts to do so (and I suspect the human will do a better job at > this point in history), the problem remains that the size of the > rule set itself undergoes a combinatorial explosion as we try to > take into account the variations in the data. Perhaps, instead of trying to make software understand documents written any old which way by humans, we should create strictly formal versions of current human languages that can be tested for correctness by computer? We'd then be able to have documents that could be examined by computer without the need to worry about an infinate number of special cases. -- Carl Read -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES
Hey Sunanda and Ryan, All very cool. But the goal is to not keep making the example shown with the C, MatLab, and Pearl smaller, but to make a more verbose accurate portrayal of the original puzzle in Rebol. I'm then going to go see if they can do the same in Pearl, or language of choice. In agreement Sunanda, making us count Rebol[] should mean they count #includes, etc. But those parts of the arguments hold little meaning to me over all. One simply offers them up and states the facts. 145 with, 138 without for example. I really enjoy reading these examples though. I have learned about three new things about Rebol I did not know! Reichart... [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Be useful." -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [REBOL] Re: A Rebol Challenge. The Monty Hall Puzzle IN 0 BYTES Hi Ryan, > Incedently, > This is 3 bytes shorter: > > w: 100 print loop w [w: w - last random [0 0 1]] > > Of course more could be shave off, at the loss of readablility, but would > better > match the examples from other languages given. > And, losing the readability as you suggest, this is 8 bytes shorter still: w: 100 loop w[w: w - last random[0 0 1]] 40 bytes, and counting, Sunanda. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Network Guru...
> I have just started a back up using the NT Tape Backup Utility, and > ZoneAlarm is telling me that the backup utility wants to access the > internet? Why would the NT Tape Backup Utility need to access the internet? Perhaps you should do a full virus scan? You just might have a virus on computer. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/ -><- -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Network Guru...
Hold on! I have just started a back up using the NT Tape Backup Utility, and ZoneAlarm is telling me that the backup utility wants to access the internet? Why would the NT Tape Backup Utility need to access the internet? Louis -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
