[REBOL] Re: Curl
Sorry for sending some of you on a disappointing download goosechase. I was in a hurry, but probably should have added some as netiquette comments. I thought Curl was interesting as a comparative tool and one which could help highlight REBOL's virtues. On the surface seems to be offering some interesting stuff, but then there's all this heavy baggage etc. For example, how to make a simple Curl button: http://www.curl.com/html/developers/code.jsp?name=Button&path=samples%2FdynamicC ontent%2Fbuttons%2Fstart.curl compared to: view layout [button "vote rebol"] woof!! cURL is also very interesting as someone also mentioned: http://curl.haxx.se/ free openSource etc.. http://curl.haxx.se/docs/comparison-table.html and it is nice and small [300kb] http://curl.haxx.se/download.html cheers ./Jason - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:30 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Curl Hi all! The same is for me! My CURL installation dir is fairly large! And it seems more similar to a Java applet than an independent full-featured application like Rebol can do! -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
Hi all! The same is for me! My CURL installation dir is fairly large! And it seems more similar to a Java applet than an independent full-featured application like Rebol can do! -- Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Cambia le casse del tuo Pc! Scegli i potentissimi speaker Hercules XPS510 Qualità elevata e costo contenuto! Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=360&d=10-4 -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
On Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:12:57 +0200 "Cyphre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I had simmilar experience, I downloaded about 400Kb > executable thinking that > it is all I need to run Curl but that was just some kind > of loader which > wanted to download about 4MB beast (if I remember) !!! Nope. I downloaded it as well. Came to 30Mb of hard drive space :( But, the demo chess game was pretty cool, and quite strong - just not strong enough :) Note that curl is not to be confused with cURL. -- Graham Chiu -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
Hi Oldes, I had simmilar experience, I downloaded about 400Kb executable thinking that it is all I need to run Curl but that was just some kind of loader which wanted to download about 4MB beast (if I remember) !!! You can hardly find so much power in such little binary like Rebol is ;) regards, Cyphre - Original Message - From: "rebol-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jason Cunliffe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Curl > Hello Jason, > > Wednesday, April 03, 2002, 6:29:41 AM, you wrote: > > JC> http://www.curl.com/html/ > > > What it should be? I downloaded some installation (plugin?) and tried > to install it offline and it was still trying to connect somewhere and > finally stop with message that I must be conected I don't like > such a software behaviours:-( > > Oldes > > -- > Best regards, > rebol-listmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > > > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
Hello Jason, Wednesday, April 03, 2002, 6:29:41 AM, you wrote: JC> http://www.curl.com/html/ What it should be? I downloaded some installation (plugin?) and tried to install it offline and it was still trying to connect somewhere and finally stop with message that I must be conected I don't like such a software behaviours:-( Oldes -- Best regards, rebol-listmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
Hi David, a few suggestions: 1. Open Source Applications I don't have the time (right now) to pursue this, but REBOL stands to gain in exposure if there are Open Source REBOL projects advertised on SourceForge, SlashDot, FreshMeat, etc. The challenge is to identify attractive, feature-rich applications (backend designs for Websites, for instance), provide intelligent configuration, and processing dialect that enable an interested developer to easily adapt the application to his needs, and actively pursue their implementation. 2. REBOL based productivity tools for popular programming languages: REBOL enables you to easily design dialect based CASE tools that can simplify the construction of programs in other programming languages emphasizing platform independence and reusability (across platforms). By platforms I means programming language platforms, not only hardware platforms. Tools that target the PHP, Java, and ASP community and provide language independence and portability are likely to expose a tremendous number of programmers to REBOL. 3. Traditional commercial applications that integrate REBOL as an automation language. Commercial applications whose success is thoroughly advertised to manager/investor/business media to make the financers and decision makers listen up. Requires financing and support from the REBOL community. David Vydra wrote: > > Elan, > > Do you have any specific suggestions? > > How about a REBOL conference? -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
Elan, Do you have any specific suggestions? How about a REBOL conference? David --- Elan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi David, > > let's make REBOL succeed! > > Elan > > David Vydra wrote: > > > > Christian, > > > > Thanks for informing us about Curl. After spending > an > > hour looking at it, I am sure that: > > 1. I like REBOL better in most cases > > 2. I am worried about REBOL's future > > > > Why $52M? For the marketing department, of course. > > > > We have all seen many great technologies shelved > due > > to competitors better marketing. > > > > My personal complaints for REBOL are: > > 1. R/View is not marketed as a GUI component for > > large client/server systems, specifically servers > > written in Java. > > > > 2. REBOL is not being ported to Java. Curl > announced > > their intention to do so. > > > > > > Several years ago, I joined Forte Software, which > had > > "technically" the best solution for 3-tier > > client/server systems. When Sun announced their > Java > > EJB spec, Forte stock plummeted from $40 to $3. > > Ironically, Sun bought the company for $20/share a > few > > years later, but the original Forte TOOL language > > seems to be dying off. > > > > Forte was very proprietory -- not a single book on > the > > TOOL language has been published, so REBOL is > doing > > better in that department. > > > > For all of the evils of Java, one has to admit > that > > there are many useful toolkits available, a few > very > > nice IDEs and Java does run on more platforms than > > REBOL. > > > > > > I hope 2 years from now I will program in REBOL, > not > > Curl. > > > > Regards, > > > > David > > > > --- Christian Langreiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > Curl seems to be quite similar in scope and > > > direction to REBOL: > > > > > > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > > > http://www.curl.com > > > > > > They just got $52m in funding. > > > > > > Any opinions? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Chris > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an > email > > > to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in > the > > > subject, without the quotes. > > > > > > > = > > please reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an > email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > > subject, without the quotes. > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email > to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > = please reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
Hi David, let's make REBOL succeed! Elan David Vydra wrote: > > Christian, > > Thanks for informing us about Curl. After spending an > hour looking at it, I am sure that: > 1. I like REBOL better in most cases > 2. I am worried about REBOL's future > > Why $52M? For the marketing department, of course. > > We have all seen many great technologies shelved due > to competitors better marketing. > > My personal complaints for REBOL are: > 1. R/View is not marketed as a GUI component for > large client/server systems, specifically servers > written in Java. > > 2. REBOL is not being ported to Java. Curl announced > their intention to do so. > > > Several years ago, I joined Forte Software, which had > "technically" the best solution for 3-tier > client/server systems. When Sun announced their Java > EJB spec, Forte stock plummeted from $40 to $3. > Ironically, Sun bought the company for $20/share a few > years later, but the original Forte TOOL language > seems to be dying off. > > Forte was very proprietory -- not a single book on the > TOOL language has been published, so REBOL is doing > better in that department. > > For all of the evils of Java, one has to admit that > there are many useful toolkits available, a few very > nice IDEs and Java does run on more platforms than > REBOL. > > > I hope 2 years from now I will program in REBOL, not > Curl. > > Regards, > > David > > --- Christian Langreiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Curl seems to be quite similar in scope and > > direction to REBOL: > > > > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > > http://www.curl.com > > > > They just got $52m in funding. > > > > Any opinions? > > > > Best regards, > > Chris > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email > > to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > > subject, without the quotes. > > > > = > please reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
David Vydra wrote: > Christian, > > Thanks for informing us about Curl. After spending an > hour looking at it, I am sure that: > 1. I like REBOL better in most cases > 2. I am worried about REBOL's future > > Why $52M? For the marketing department, of course. > > We have all seen many great technologies shelved due > to competitors better marketing. > > My personal complaints for REBOL are: > 1. R/View is not marketed as a GUI component for > large client/server systems, specifically servers > written in Java. OK - as for Rebol strategy (and I hope Dan reads it to correct me if I am wrong :-): 1) If I understand it correctly - Express is the priority - it's very good product imo for small-to-middle businesses 2) Carl once said Rebol is complementary technology to web ones , so I think we need - a) /shell and /library /at least for non-commercial purposes) ASAP to become part of /Core, /View (or it's replacement /Link lite), to allow community in general spread the word about Rebol and its coolness! b) develop and market /Apache module - few reviews would help. The scenario could possibly be: - if /shell and /library are present in /Core, basic /Apache could be free - I am not sure when/if rebol plans on module support, as Jeff once expressed it could help /Apache performance (technical reasons) - /Apache based upon /Command - proper SQL support, with paid technical assistance from RT. The solution for RT is to have dynamic components and per-component pricing. RT expressed themselves its the way they want to go, it just needs time to get there c) RT released beta of browser plug-in. It just knows how to launch Rebol, once .r file is invoked via URL, or website contains some specific code IIRC, but it lacks one very serious feature, which WILL imo have direct impact on acceptance of such plug-in - it can't draw inside browser's window. Maybe I am wrong but I regard it pretty essential issue. PPL regard everything what's displayed in their browser being standard. 3) Rebol for Java? The discussion was here already :-) Well, we all know Rebol is way cooler than Java. We all know Java takes some 10MB. But ppl don't care of it's size, once they get it with OS/browser install. Rebol for Java or Rebol for Tao Elate could higher general language acceptance ... 4) in some earlier Rebol days, there was some metnion of Rebol Command Toolkit - Rebol in form of libraries. I am not sure if it is technically possible, but if developers could invoke rebol scripts directly from C or Java code, while there would be some kind of API to allow work with some of Rebol datatypes directly (using /library we have to copy all data here and there, no chance to tell library to do something with rebol block directly e.g.) ... but here I just guess what could be possible > > Several years ago, I joined Forte Software, which had > "technically" the best solution for 3-tier > client/server systems. When Sun announced their Java > EJB spec, Forte stock plummeted from $40 to $3. > Ironically, Sun bought the company for $20/share a few > years later, but the original Forte TOOL language > seems to be dying off. > > Forte was very proprietory -- not a single book on the > TOOL language has been published, so REBOL is doing > better in that department. > > For all of the evils of Java, one has to admit that > there are many useful toolkits available, a few very > nice IDEs and Java does run on more platforms than > REBOL. > > Your reflection is good example that sometimes we need more tactics than what product/technology excelence itself means > > I hope 2 years from now I will program in REBOL, not > Curl. > We all hope so ;-) Cheers, -pekr- > Regards, > > David > > --- Christian Langreiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Curl seems to be quite similar in scope and > > direction to REBOL: > > > > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > > http://www.curl.com > > > > They just got $52m in funding. > > > > Any opinions? > > > > Best regards, > > Chris > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email > > to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > > subject, without the quotes. > > > > = > please reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
Christian, Thanks for informing us about Curl. After spending an hour looking at it, I am sure that: 1. I like REBOL better in most cases 2. I am worried about REBOL's future Why $52M? For the marketing department, of course. We have all seen many great technologies shelved due to competitors better marketing. My personal complaints for REBOL are: 1. R/View is not marketed as a GUI component for large client/server systems, specifically servers written in Java. 2. REBOL is not being ported to Java. Curl announced their intention to do so. Several years ago, I joined Forte Software, which had "technically" the best solution for 3-tier client/server systems. When Sun announced their Java EJB spec, Forte stock plummeted from $40 to $3. Ironically, Sun bought the company for $20/share a few years later, but the original Forte TOOL language seems to be dying off. Forte was very proprietory -- not a single book on the TOOL language has been published, so REBOL is doing better in that department. For all of the evils of Java, one has to admit that there are many useful toolkits available, a few very nice IDEs and Java does run on more platforms than REBOL. I hope 2 years from now I will program in REBOL, not Curl. Regards, David --- Christian Langreiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Curl seems to be quite similar in scope and > direction to REBOL: > > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > http://www.curl.com > > They just got $52m in funding. > > Any opinions? > > Best regards, > Chris > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email > to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > = please reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
> Amazingly, Curl has stayed below slashdot's radar screen. It already gets its share of flames on FoRK ;-) > Have they revealed how they intend to make > money off the venture? Will the current beta that will soon be released > as a product be "sold"? Just curious if it is apparent. On their developer site they say something along the lines of "Uhm, open-source great, foundation of the web, will open-source something don't know yet what, non-commercial use will remain free, commercial use will be metered (!) - [by kB transmitted or 'saved', not yet clear to me] - and that's how we'll make $1b/yr." - So well. Nevertheless, the system has some nice aspects - especially the Graphics components _seem_ to be more powerful than R/V's. However, they don't even have anything XML-related in the package - and neither I've seen sound support ... but why bothering about an "application environment" then?! Thanks for the opinions, Chris -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
From: John Sequeira > As a new language junkie, I'm beta testing Curl right now, and I've just > written my first few rebol scripts. Here's some quick thoughts from a > newbie. Thanks, John. That was a very helpful language comparison. I ran across Curl a few days ago and was looking for a quick overview that would allow comparison. Amazingly, Curl has stayed below slashdot's radar screen. Out of curiosity, is it apparent how the Curl folks will be handling shell access and library/dll access? Have they revealed how they intend to make money off the venture? Will the current beta that will soon be released as a product be "sold"? Just curious if it is apparent. --Scott Jones -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
As a new language junkie, I'm beta testing Curl right now, and I've just written my first few rebol scripts. Here's some quick thoughts from a newbie. Where they're the same: Curl and Rebol both provide a low barrier to entry, meaning simple things are simple to do in a way not true of most languages. Simple in Curl is more about moving from simple content presentation (the TeX ancestry) up to full-fledged system programming in an easy way. I think Rebol has achieved similar goals with the View dialect. Both platforms bridge scripting and OO languages - allowing you to mix procedural and oo semantics, with Curl more on the OO side and Rebol more on the scripting side. Curl does have more code-fattening language features that James alluded to, so Rebol still remains the champion of concise coding. Both allow you to implement a type of sandbox for untrusted applets and are working fiercely on rounding out their script-distribution framework. Where they differ: Rebol is very lightweight compared to Curl (~200K vs. ~2M plug-in), and already available on many many platforms (although is View really released?). Curl is just getting ready to launch their browser plugin for Windows. They'll follow with Mac and then Linux, and will provide scripting and application (exe) capability (like Command). They've announced plans to go onto mobile devices. Curl has a built-in 2-d and 3-d graphics library. View has a lot of 2D stuff that's easily accessible, but I don't think it's as powerful as Curl's. Curl includes an IDE with a debugger and object inspector that is very very cool, but it also has an emacs mode. I think the world (okay - at least me) needs a way to distribute applications on many different platforms that does more on the client than HTML+JavaScript or (shudder) DHTML. I'm anti-Java for this purpose, because I just plain don't like being forced to do OO. With Java about to be nuked in browsers as a default (i.e. IE6), I think there's an opening for competing solutions. I hope that one of the aforementioned companies can fill this void (please, no more Flash!). John Sequeira http://www.pobox.com/~johnseq [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Christian Langreiter > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:50 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [REBOL] Curl > > > Curl seems to be quite similar in scope and direction to REBOL: > > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > http://www.curl.com > > They just got $52m in funding. > > Any opinions? > > Best regards, > Chris > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
> "It may not be the best language for all purposes, but it is > perhaps the > best balance of what is > needed to be productive." > > Perfectly said. May I use this in my sig file? :) Heh. Feel free. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
"It may not be the best language for all purposes, but it is perhaps the best balance of what is needed to be productive." Perfectly said. May I use this in my sig file? :) Ryan C. Christiansen Web Developer Intellisol International 4733 Amber Valley Parkway Fargo, ND 58104 701-235-3390 ext. 6671 FAX: 701-235-9940 http://www.intellisol.com Global Leader in People Performance Software _ Confidentiality Notice This message may contain privileged and confidential information. If you think, for any reason, that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it, and we would ask you to notify us immediately by return email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Hague n-inc.com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [REBOL] Re: Curl rebol-bounce@re bol.com 03/14/2001 01:48 PM Please respond to rebol-list -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
How do you get 52M for reinventing the wheel? TB - Original Message - From: "Jeff Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:57 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Curl > > So how the hell do you get $52M in funding for implementing Scheme in > a browser plug-in, with curly braces replacing parens and a TeX > rip-off DOM? > > :shakes head in amazement... > > jb > > Christian Langreiter wrote: > > > Curl seems to be quite similar in scope and direction to REBOL: > > > > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > > http://www.curl.com > > > > They just got $52m in funding. > > > > Any opinions? > > > > Best regards, > > Chris > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > > subject, without the quotes. > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. > > -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
So how the hell do you get $52M in funding for implementing Scheme in a browser plug-in, with curly braces replacing parens and a TeX rip-off DOM? :shakes head in amazement... jb Christian Langreiter wrote: > Curl seems to be quite similar in scope and direction to REBOL: > > http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > http://www.curl.com > > They just got $52m in funding. > > Any opinions? > > Best regards, > Chris > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes. -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: Curl
> http://www.cag.lcs.mit.edu/curl/wwwpaper.html > http://www.curl.com > > They just got $52m in funding. > > Any opinions? Hmmm...this kind of thing seems to be quite frequent :) My gut reactions: 1. It is more academic feeling, right down to the developers thinking being like TeX is a good thing :) 2. They are much more interested in being object-oriented, which I don't see as a good thing. 3. The screenshots were of the horribly ugly UNIX UI variety :) There are a lot of languages out there with ties to the web---Perl, Ruby, Python, Erlang--and just as many others with lots of good ideas, like Objective Caml, Lisp, and Prolog. What the REBOL developers got right is a brilliant combination of smallness, expressiveness, and usefulness, plus a distinct lack of language designer curmudgeonliness. It may not be the best language for all purposes, but it is perhaps the best balance of what is needed to be productive. James -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes.
