[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
XFML looks to be quite interesting - based on RDF, which has the potential to tie it to the Semantic Web. There's been some criticism however that 1) RDF is less rich than RSS, and that the Semantic Web is doomed to failute if it uses RDF, and 2) that topic maps don't use the full potential of RDF. I dunno, gotta read more. I WILL play with this stuff in REBOL. K. -Original Message- From: Jason Cunliffe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: September 12, 2002 1:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey Hi Kemp, Sorry about the delay in responding. Yes I like your version... I'll dive into dublin core. Meanwhile, have your heard about Peter Van Dijck's XFML? I'd like to get you opinion since you know about XFML, and how well you think it relates to REBOL metadata engineering XFML: [EXchangeable Facet Map Language ] http://xfml.org/ XFML allows for easy creation of advanced, automatically generated navigation for your website. You can even automatically generate links to related topics on other websites. It also allows for merging of metadata between different websites. XFML is designed to be easy to understand, and easy to code for, yet powerful and flexible. XFML is an open, free format, like SOAP or RSS, and is based on the topicmaps standard. The tutorials are handy.. http://xfml.net/index.php?page=XfmlTutorials ./Jason Another crack at it: REBOL [ File:%index.r Description: Rebsite index with MetaData in block header Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date:2002-09-08 Metadata:[ %rebsites.net/dublincoreengine.r [ title some title creator K. Watson subject Rebsite, indexing description Rebsite index with MetaData in block header publisher K. Watson Friends Inc. contributor J. Smith contributor Hay Uthere date/created 2002-09-04 date/modified 2002-09-08 type Software identifier http://wherethislives.com language en-US rights K. Watson Friends Inc. ] %anotherrebsite.org/generickeyvalueengine.r [ 'somekey 5 'someotherkey a text value 'anotherkey [ block values ] 'andonemore 'key ] ] ] -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
The Weblog MetaData Initiative http://www.truthlaidbear.com/blogmd/ConceptualDM.html -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
Hi Kemp, Sorry about the delay in responding. Yes I like your version... I'll dive into dublin core. Meanwhile, have your heard about Peter Van Dijck's XFML? I'd like to get you opinion since you know about XFML, and how well you think it relates to REBOL metadata engineering XFML: [EXchangeable Facet Map Language ] http://xfml.org/ XFML allows for easy creation of advanced, automatically generated navigation for your website. You can even automatically generate links to related topics on other websites. It also allows for merging of metadata between different websites. XFML is designed to be easy to understand, and easy to code for, yet powerful and flexible. XFML is an open, free format, like SOAP or RSS, and is based on the topicmaps standard. The tutorials are handy.. http://xfml.net/index.php?page=XfmlTutorials ./Jason Another crack at it: REBOL [ File:%index.r Description: Rebsite index with MetaData in block header Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date:2002-09-08 Metadata:[ %rebsites.net/dublincoreengine.r [ title some title creator K. Watson subject Rebsite, indexing description Rebsite index with MetaData in block header publisher K. Watson Friends Inc. contributor J. Smith contributor Hay Uthere date/created 2002-09-04 date/modified 2002-09-08 type Software identifier http://wherethislives.com language en-US rights K. Watson Friends Inc. ] %anotherrebsite.org/generickeyvalueengine.r [ 'somekey 5 'someotherkey a text value 'anotherkey [ block values ] 'andonemore 'key ] ] ] -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
XFML looks to be quite interesting - based on RDF, which has the potential to tie it to the Semantic Web. There's been some criticism however that 1) RDF is less rich than RSS, and that the Semantic Web is doomed to failute if it uses RDF, and 2) that topic maps don't use the full potential of RDF. I don't quite follow that last sentence. Probably bacause my grasp is still slim on the most of these XML meta-kits. Can you elaborate please Here's some brief comments about XfmlAndOtherTechnologies http://xfml.net/index.php?page=XfmlAndOtherTechnologies I dunno, gotta read more. me too.. Peter Van Dijk has set up a mailing list for XFML. A good place to put any of your questions, since there is small but appreciative audience who are really in to this stuff. His site and blog are worth visiting: http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/ [yesteday's account of his MS interview] http://petervandijck.net/ I WILL play with this stuff in REBOL. K. Great to hear that:-) My impression is that XFML might be very well suited to a REBOL implementation and vice versa ./Jason -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
Hi Jason, You've made very good points. I guess a lot revolves around what people imagine the Desktop is used for (or can be used for). I'd suggest that most rebsites (including mine) have at least initially seen it as a type of static browser, but if you add the dynamic/interactive element then it could gain far more use. E.g I've added a codeconscious.com folder inside of my local folder - the icons there represent automated aspects of codeconscious.com website management. So in this case, the desktop becomes a task based launcher. In some ways, in these days of flash interfaces (or at least the possibility of such), it might be considered nice to have more custom visual control over the desktop by a specific rebsite. E.g if you enter codeconscious.com you'd pick up the look and feel of codeconscious.com. On the other hand, the constrained layout we have now allows a user to move around different rebsites without getting confused on how to operate them. Blue sky Desktop in my mind should point to a common working space for disparate items. It would be interesting to investigate how different rebsites could offer up resources to the desktop such that the user via the desktop could combine them in different ways. E.g if rebsites offer web services how could the desktop enable a user to connect different services together? /blue sky As far as status items go the still present reality of dial-up constrains certain possibilities. The google issue is interesting. Some of my rebsite content on codeconscious.com is already the source for generated website HTML. I aim to make all content on codeconscious.com available via HTML and View/Desktop. Maybe some sort of generalised rebsite to HTML generator could made. Interestingly, if a production REBOL browser plugin was available it would likely work against View/Desktop. Overall I think the View/Desktop needs somehow to be incorporated into people's daily routines. Right now you could probably divide up Desktop into three major territories - RT, Sites, Library. Library because it allows community additions and downloads is probably the closet thing to a service in Desktop right now. Maybe desktop needs more services, but which perhaps are built on top/via community collaboration. This is where your suggestions of annotate and share come in, I'm just suggestnig an overall name and a place to plug em in conceptually. So these services things like: Knowledge Base - searchable archive (distributed hopefully). Online Expert - e.g chat to a really keen contributor(s). Code Works - build an app in real time with others. It would probably be easier to build these on top of IOS, if IOS became more widely spread. But while that is true, much of the look and feel can be the same. My comments are a bit disjointed but I wanted throw in my AUD$0.05 in so there you have em/it :^) Regards, Brett. - Original Message - From: Jason Cunliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:02 AM Subject: [REBOL] informal /View desktop survey I'd love to hear what other rebolers think about View/Desktop. What's best/worst about it? How much do you use it? What would like to improve? New features? Is it being surpassed by wikiblogs+xmlrpc/rss/soap ideas? ??? When I first downloaded REBOL/View, I was thrilled especially by the View/Desktop and the potential for a networked community of rebsites. But as time went by I found I stopped using it. I feel it is a great prototype design.. but needs work imo. I do not think it can succeed until some issues are addressed. RT are focused on IOS. Perhaps it is a lot of work to improve View, perhaps not. My impression is that needs a design document describing improvements, how and why. And marking those which are within easy reach as opposed to the hard ones. There are likely all sorts of scripts out there now which can be used to improve Desktop. Like many aspects of REBOL, there is so much untapped potential already, just using existing tools and characteristics more intelligently. What do you think? What can we do about it? - search hard to find things/scripts/sites with it. google is blind to it - presentation one issue is that it only presents rebsites + content as icons. With small numbers this is fine, but the interface soon becomes a victim of its own success. To handle larger numbers one needs the option to present content as lists. Filters for type, metadata, date, source, size etc.. All standard features in multimedia browsers, but also ones which REBOL could enhance easily. - history/memory/documentary hard to see what's new, changed, off-line, deleted, ... This a big time waster. It should not be hard for Desktop to get status and provide some graphic feedback upfront about access [colored typestyle or similar]. - annotate + share so you find some cool stuff - what's the best way to add metadata, notes
[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
The desktop is extremely flexible http://www.rebol.com/docs/desktop.html I've used the View/Desktop for custom delivery. By editing the index and bookmark files, removing the rebsites list and tools etc, creating custom backgrounds and all the reblets the client needed for their workflow. So they have all the scripts they need in a simple convenient space and they are always uptodate. Their major tasks are listed on the Left (Replacing REBOL.Com, Local, Console etc) while under each task are the scripts and documentation required. Cheers, Allen K -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in the subject, without the quotes.
[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
Hi Brett
Thanks for your reply..
Blue sky
Desktop in my mind should point to a common working space for disparate
items. It would be interesting to investigate how different rebsites could
offer up resources to the desktop such that the user via the desktop could
combine them in different ways. E.g if rebsites offer web services how
could the desktop enable a user to connect different services together?
/blue sky
Yes Nice idea.
As far as status items go the still present reality of dial-up constrains
certain possibilities.
The google issue is interesting. Some of my rebsite content on
codeconscious.com is already the source for generated website HTML. I aim to
make all content on codeconscious.com available via HTML and View/Desktop.
Maybe some sort of generalised rebsite to HTML generator could made.
Interestingly, if a production REBOL browser plugin was available it would
likely work against View/Desktop.
Yes there is ummm contradictory irony to it.
rebsites are hard to search either from google, or from rebol.
That's not right.
I have not yet found a decent rebol technique with google.
For example, how do you best search for a script named test.r or index.r ?
Overall I think the View/Desktop needs somehow to be incorporated into
people's daily routines. Right now you could probably divide up Desktop into
three major territories - RT, Sites, Library. Library because it allows
community additions and downloads is probably the closet thing to a service
in Desktop right now. Maybe desktop needs more services, but which perhaps
are built on top/via community collaboration. This is where your suggestions
of annotate and share come in, I'm just suggestnig an overall name and a
place to plug em in conceptually. So these services things like:
Knowledge Base - searchable archive (distributed hopefully).
Online Expert - e.g chat to a really keen contributor(s).
Code Works - build an app in real time with others.
Yes that's good.
I was thinking simple metadata blocks included in rebsites coudl be harnessed in
all sorts of ways, IF Desktop was smarter about looking for them and acting on
them. This is influenced by my ongoing experiments with Vanilla. The structure
is very simple:
content is stored as 'snips' in /space
every .snip file has a matcnhign invisible .metadata file The default Vanilla
uses a small seta of metdata elements for all snips, stored in a block. Thsee
include number oc accesses, the creator and last-editor id etc.. But is is very
easy to add custom fields to the block and write extensions to use them.
Typically these would be invisble 'dyansnips', little rebol scripts stored
moduelarly /apps and exposed to to the rest of the system via a simple syntax:
{brett.list-snips-by-metafield:ideas}
That will call a Vanilla dynascript %apps/brett/list-snips-by-metafield.r and
passit a value ideas. This example script would search though all block in all
the .metadata files looking for a field called ideas:
Then it would reurn linked HTML list for display of the snips matching those.
This is very easy to do. Thanks to REBOL set and get is trivial and very fast.
I can imagine applying the same technique to Desktop and rebsites.
AS you say so that somehow to be incorporated into people's daily routines
It would probably be easier to build these on top of IOS, if IOS became more
widely spread. But while that is true, much of the look and feel can be the
same.
I have still not gotten to grips with IOS.
So manybe I am reinventing some wheels here//
My comments are a bit disjointed but I wanted throw in my AUD$0.05 in so
there you have em/it :^)
No thank you. All comments are welcome.
./Jason
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[REBOL] Re: informal /View desktop survey
I've used the View/Desktop for custom delivery. By editing the index and bookmark files, removing the rebsites list and tools etc, creating custom backgrounds and all the reblets the client needed for their workflow. So they have all the scripts they need in a simple convenient space and they are always uptodate. Their major tasks are listed on the Left (Replacing REBOL.Com, Local, Console etc) while under each task are the scripts and documentation required. Allen Thanks. Can you say more about this please? ./Jason -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in the subject, without the quotes.
