[recoznet2] AAP: Greens senator attacks PM over apology issue
Greens senator attacks PM over apology issue Source: AAP | Published: Thursday August 26 10:35:26 AM Australian Greens Senator Bob Brown has accused Prime Minister John Howard of failing as a leader on the issue of an apology to the stolen generation. "He cannot say ... he is not big enough to say, I am sorry, on behalf of the nation," Senator Brown told reporters. "Every other parliament in the nation, almost every other politician and people right across this country have been able to say I am sorry. "But John Howard is not big enough to do that," Brown said. Australian Democrats Senator Aden Ridgeway's maiden speech last night called on the government to express deep and sincere regret for the hurt and trauma suffered by indigenous Australians. Australia's only Aboriginal federal MP omitted the word sorry in a compromise Howard seems likely to accept. But Brown believes this had come about because Howard had not offered an alternative. "Thank goodness we have an indigenous community that is big enough to find ground for this leader who has failed in this context," Brown said. "I have said I am sorry. I feel deeply sorry about the whole history since the invasion as far as the Aboriginal people are concerned and the stolen generation in more recent history, in particular. "However, I remain also sorry that we don't have a prime minister who could give ground," he said. --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
[recoznet2] SMH - Motion not enough: Beazley
Motion not enough: Beazley Source: SMH | Published: Thursday August 26 1:22:50 PM Opposition Leader Kim Beazley today said Prime Minister John Howard did not go far enough with his expression of deep and sincere regret to indigenous Australians. Mr Beazley moved a number of amendments to Mr Howard's motion to ensure it contained an unreserved apology and reference to adequate compensation. His amendment calls for the motion to: "unreservedly apologise to indigenous Australians for the injustice they have suffered and for the hurt and trauma that many indigenous people continue to suffer as a consequence of that injustice." Mr Beazley said the stolen generation was not a matter of historical record, but contemporary history which extended well into the 1970s and the lives of many current politicians. He criticised Mr Howard for forcing Australia's indigenous people to assume responsibility for the wording of the prime minister's motion. "It is unfair to make them the arbitrators of our apology," he told parliament. "That is our job. That is the job of every person in this house. It is unfair to compromise them in relation to other members of the Aboriginal community for whom this will not be satisfactory." --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
[recoznet2] Non-apology
From what Howard is saying it is obvious he hasn't learnt anything at all. He still doesn't understand and is defending the 'well-meaning' and the present generation. Daryl Melham is right - this is a political deal. Trudy ABC News: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:32 AEST Present generations not responsible for the past: Howard The Prime Minister, John Howard, says the greatest blemish on Australia's national story is the treatment of its indigenous people. Mr Howard has tabled a motion in Parliament which expresses deep regret for the injustices suffered by indigenous people under past practices. It also expresses a belief that Australians can now move forward for the benefit of all. In his speech to Parliament, Mr Howard reiterated his belief that present generations should not be held accountable for the mistakes of the past. "Nor should we ever forget that many people who were involved in some of the practices that caused hurt and trauma felt at the time that those practices were properly based and to apply retrospectively the standards of today to their behaviour does some of those people who were sincere an immense injustice," he said. But Labor has refused to support the resolution and has moved an amendment to upgrade it to an unreserved apology. The Shadow Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, Daryl Melham, says unless the Prime Minister makes a full apology, the trauma of indigenous people will continue. "This is a political deal, I'm not signing up to it, and nor is the Labor Party," he said. "That's why we're moving the amendment and we say to the Prime Minister you accept our two paragraphs, then it doesn't stop there, you can't have an apology like this," Mr Melham said. © 1999 Australian Broadcasting Corporation --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
[recoznet2] Pat Dodson:
Here is an extract of an ABC item on what Pat Dodson had to say: "The former chair of the Reconciliation Council, Patrick Dodson, has condemned the resolution, saying it does little to advance reconcilitation. "When people pass away in our society we cry with them. We siddown and we cry with them to express our sorrow, to show our sorrow. And we mourn with those people, we show that feeling," he said. "There's no feeling in this. There's nothing in this that says to the people who've suffered that yes we are genuinely sorry that this has happened to you."" --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] pm or PM?
I agree that its not really an apology Sandy, but I worry that continuing to argue about the matter might not be particularly astute tactics. It was interesting listening to the Parliamentary debate . Apart from the contributions from Beasley and Snowdon, both of which were very good, I thought the Labor party wanted to have a bob each way. One ALP contributor (I've forgotten who) was very big on the line that "saying sorry doesn't mean that you accept personal responsibility" (or something very similar). This seemed to me to reduce the value of an apology quite dramatically. Yes, its a motherhood staement, but it will never be anything more than this anyway. Won't the statement itself never be anything more than "completely useless in coming to grips with the concerns" regardless of whether it contains the word "sorry" or not. What counts is whether it can be used to pressure the government to do something genuinely useful. Nobody should be patting Johnny over the back about this stuff, but I'm inclined to the view expressed by Pat Dodson and others in recent weeks. The "sorry" debate is diverting us all from the underlying issues. OK, say you ultimately win. Johnny says "sorry". So what. Unless he is prepared to actually DO something any victory compared to the current situation will be a pyric one. He will have "given ground" and Indigenous people will have to accept less becaiuse of it. All that will have been achieved is an improved motherhood statement! Ultimately, by NOT saying sorry he simply keeps another opportunity to "give" without doing anything up his sleeve. Hit him with the real issues. Land, Stolen Generation, Health, Equity. At 03:21 PM 26/8/99, Sandy Sanders wrote: No, no, no. There's a huge gap between clause (f) and clause (g) in Howard's parliamentary motion. That's where the apology has to go. Regret is not apology. Even remorse, which would be a far better word than "regret", is not apology. This motion is just a shallow motherhood statement intended to get Howard and his government off the hook with the majority of Australians. It's completely useless in coming to grips with the concerns of indigenous Australians and non-indigenous Australians who care about these issues. ~~~ Sandy Sanders Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
[recoznet2] Re: The Australian: Ridgeway shows way to be sorry
There often, in media reports, is a reference to "Aboriginal leaders". This is a worry to me. Aden Ridgeway is now being touted as a "leader". Yet Aden, a man I admire and respect, is no more an "Aboriginal leader" than I am. He was not elected by Aboriginal people to enter the Senate. He was elected by Democrat voters and other preferences. But the owners of information have conferred upon him the title of leader. The same can be said of other "Aboriginal leaders". Many are leaders of their people. But just as many are crowned by the media, politicians, organisations and individuals who have very little contact with Aboriginal people. I am sure that some indigenous people will see some of these people as leaders. And these leaders will talk about what they see as Reconciliation and an apology and all other aspects of indigenous life. But they may not necessarily be leaders and they may not necessarily be really speaking for indigenous peoples. Many of the people that the dominants elect as leaders have not been elected to that position by indigenous peoples. But so many take up the term as if they have been. A government appointment or an election by the whole Australian public should not confer that title on anyone. Aden's job will be extremely difficult without that title being placed on him I think. There will be expectations from all people placed on him. Let him be what he is - A member of the Democrats elected by the Australian public. Don Clark President Indigenous Social Justice Association PO Box K555 HAYMARKET NSW 1240 There can be no real reconciliation without social justice [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Trudy Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: news-clip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 26 August 1999 11:28 Subject: The Australian: Ridgeway shows way to be sorry Ridgeway shows way to be sorry By DENNIS SHANAHAN and MEGAN SAUNDERS 26aug99 ADEN Ridgeway, one of the nation's newest senators, has ensured the passage of a federal parliamentary apology by seeking an expression of "deep and sincere regret" - a phrase that appears acceptable to the government parties. In a measured speech before packed galleries in the Senate last night, the Australian Democrats senator said an apology was a key to reconciliation between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians. "Whilst others may not agree on wording, there should be no confusion about intent. We must get the wheels of reconciliation turning again," Senator Ridgeway said. Prime Minister John Howard and his deputy, John Anderson, as leader of the National Party, have committed their parties to considering Senator Ridgeway's call for a parliamentary apology. Members of the Government said last night the matter of an apology would have to be considered by the Coalition partyrooms. National Party Senate leader Ron Boswell described the speech as powerful and something of which all Australians could be proud. But Labor Aboriginal Affairs spokesman Daryl Melham said last night that Senator Ridgeway's formula of a "deep regret" did not go far enough. "We believe there should be an unreserved apology," he said. "It's got to come from the heart on behalf of the nation." Aboriginal leaders were reluctant yesterday to be drawn into discussing the speech, but Kimberley Land Council executive director Peter Yu said "sorry" was a word Aboriginal people understood. The Prime Minister and the Coalition were opposed to an official government apology and there was opposition within the Coalition ranks to a parliamentary apology that suggested today's Australians were guilty of past wrongs. Previous attempts to gain a national public apology, as recommended in the Bringing Them Home report in 1997, have failed and are slowing the reconciliation process. But Senator Ridgeway, with the support of the Democrats in the Senate, and with a standing ovation from a gallery including many Aboriginal leaders, specifically ruled out implying guilt. Senator Ridgeway said that he was not a "stolen generation" member - his mother was prominent in the public gallery - but "I am mindful of my duty as a human being to acknowledge their past, their hurt and the consequences of poor decisions, which left scars in families and an indelible stain on a national character". "These are the results of misguided past policy, but I am now mindful of a moral duty to acknowledge those miseries and to call upon conscience to put these matters to rest and, through reconciliation, render justice to all," he said. In the "national interest", Senator Ridgeway called on the Government to: RENEW its commitment to reconciliation between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians; REAFFIRM its commitment to addressing the economic and social disadvantage of indigenous Australians; and EXPRESS its deep and sincere regret for the hurt
[recoznet2] more pm or PM
This is the text of the rest of what Howard said yesterday when introducing the motion into parliament - I got it from the Australian website. Still can't help but feel the whole thing was rushed and somewhat of a political compromise - I agree with Trudy that it's pretty hard to give Howard the benefit of much doubt. I also agree with what Rod said about using what Howard has said and to remind him of it when his actions and future statements don't live up to those words. I can't help but compare yesterday's motion with Keating's Redfern speech which seemed to me a much more sincere attempt at reconciliation. It will be interesting to see how things unfold. Tim + John Howard - It will be no secret to the House or, indeed, to many Australians that over the past few days indeed over the past few weeks I and a number of my colleagues and others have been giving thought to the issues that are the subject of this motion. It is a historic resolution. It is a very important resolution because it goes to the issues of the spirit and the heart and character of our country in a way that many of the issues we debate in this chamber, important though they are, do not. As all members know, we are approaching that momentous event in Australia's history when we will celebrate 100 years of Federation 100 years of the Australian nation. That will be an occasion when all of us will want quite legitimately to focus on what this nation has achieved. We will quite legitimately in the year 2001 celebrate with pride in an unqualified way the immensity and the scale of the Australian achievement. And that has been a great achievement. It has been an achievement that has delivered to our country a reputation for achievement, for tolerance, for understanding, for compassion, for independence of spirit, and an ability to work together to overcome adversity. I would imagine that, whatever our views are on political issues, whatever our ethnic or national origin might be, whether we practice this or that religion, or whether we profess any religion at all, we would want in the Year 2001 to focus overwhelmingly on those things that unite us as Australians and not those things that divide or set us apart as Australians. I have come to the view that an important element of that celebration of the unity of the Australian nation is undoubtedly achieving an effective and lasting reconciliation between indigenous Australians and other members of the Australian community. I know that is a desire that everybody in this chamber shares because, in reality, there is an extent to which the sense of the unity of the Australian nation is qualified and diminished so far as indigenous Australians are concerned unless, in their hearts and in their understanding, here is a proper basis for achievement of reconciliation. It is in that context and against that background the desire on the part of the government to make the maximum contribution towards achieving the conditions of reconciliation which will enable all of us whatever our views are on constitutional forms, whatever our views are on taxation, whatever our views are on foreign policy, health policy or all the other things that we debate so passionately in this chamber to pause in the Year 2001 and reflect unqualifiedly and without any sense that one sector is diminished or restrained because of unfinished business and to celebrate the scale and the immensity of the Australian achievement. We need to do that as a people. We want to do that as a people. I want all of the Australian people to feel an equal measure of pride and satisfaction in the Australian achievement. We in this chamber must recognise that that cannot be done in quite that unqualified way by indigenous Australians without a sense of reconciliation. In approaching this motion today, people are entitled to reflect on what I have said in the past. People are entitled to say that I said this on one occasion. Some will criticise me. Some will say that I have changed my position on some aspects of this. I do not mind if they do. I do not think changing your position on something really matters, unless you are changing to a less worthy position. I have sought to bring to an understanding and a comprehension of this issue what I can to make, as Prime Minister, a practical contribution and a genuine contribution to the cause of reconciliation. When my government was returned in the election last October, I spoke on election night and said I wanted to commit the government to achieving reconciliation between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians. I believe that the motion that I am putting to the House today, if carried, will make a very significant contribution towards that cause. I do not pretend that this is a perfect motion. I know there will be some in this House who would want it expressed in a different way. There will be
[recoznet2] Speeches on the Motion
I have a copy of all the speeches made on the Motion of regret: Howard Beazley Anderson Melham Ruddock Snowdon Andren (reserved the right to speak) It is very interesting reading and brings home in no uncertain terms that this so-called 'regret' has less to do with regret than it has to do with Howard's political time-table and a notch as another "Howard Achievement" Some of the speeches are inspiring and give hope that understanding does exist. Contact me for copies of all or parts. Trudy --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Speeches on the Motion
Thankyou Trudy and Rod for your unceasing committment to this issue, I won't take up the offer for copies of speeches as I'm sure they would only serve to anger me further. This conflagration about words for a preamble, is a beautiful smokescreen for little Johnnie and his ilk. As we have experienced too often, the pathetic political grandstanding of politicians speeches (read :campaign soliloquies), rarely address the heart of the matter, I find their vacuous words far too tedious to contemplate. For me,The fact that the preamble is not actually part of the constitution takes the interest out of this debate. I can't get excited about little Johnnie doing the soft-shoe shuffle about the preamble, trying desperately not to say anything that might undermine his next election campaign, when there is no intelligent political discussion of legislative change that would address SUBSTANTIVE citizenship for Australia's First peoples. As others have mentioned what is the point in expressing "personal sorrow" or "sincere regret" for those abducted from their homes, while simultaneously opposing claims for compensation from the very people that little Johnnie would have accept this token of regret, this insincere lie? Dispossession and genocide continue while we waffle on about little Johnnie and reconciliation. Many consider reconciliation a sell-out, a sick joke, while sovereignty , land rights and substantive citizenship are ignored. Where's the fucking treaty? shove your apologies! An abject apology with little Johnnie laying prostrate before the nation might be amusing, but would not be worth jack-shit while structural white priviledge remains as solid and exclusive as ever. Try telling a young Indigenous boy in an adults jail that little Johnnie is gonna make it all up to him. Aden Ridgeway has the chance to make some noise , an opportunity to make little Johnnie listen to an Indigenous voice in parliament, however I fear that acquiescence to little Johnnie's insulting bullshit is not the voice I was hoping to hear. Dave. -Original Message- From: Trudy and Rod Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RecOzNet2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, 27 August 1999 10:08 Subject: [recoznet2] Speeches on the Motion I have a copy of all the speeches made on the Motion of regret: Howard Beazley Anderson Melham Ruddock Snowdon Andren (reserved the right to speak) It is very interesting reading and brings home in no uncertain terms that this so-called 'regret' has less to do with regret than it has to do with Howard's political time-table and a notch as another "Howard Achievement" Some of the speeches are inspiring and give hope that understanding does exist. Contact me for copies of all or parts. Trudy --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
Re: [recoznet2] Speeches on the Motion
Yes please. Would love copies. -Original Message- From: Trudy and Rod Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RecOzNet2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, August 27, 1999 10:10 AM Subject: [recoznet2] Speeches on the Motion I have a copy of all the speeches made on the Motion of regret: Howard Beazley Anderson Melham Ruddock Snowdon Andren (reserved the right to speak) It is very interesting reading and brings home in no uncertain terms that this so-called 'regret' has less to do with regret than it has to do with Howard's political time-table and a notch as another "Howard Achievement" Some of the speeches are inspiring and give hope that understanding does exist. Contact me for copies of all or parts. Trudy --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
[recoznet2] Maiden Speech
Just curious - does anyone know why only 1/3 of the Labour Senators were there for Aden Ridgeway's maiden speech ( source Margot Kingston SMH 26.8.99 p.2) Was there something else important happening at the time ? Cheers Lynn Lynn Pollack 9/363 Edgecliff Road, Edgecliff. NSW. 2027. Australia Tel/Fax 61293282060 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
