Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-09 Thread Liam

as far as I know, both of us are just plain ol' white fellas :)

peace

>re
>>yup... turns out that we are... pretty ironic, huh? David has been able to
>give some excellent info
>
>pooling resources is wind under everyone's wings - fly high fellas :)
>national aboriginal history and heritage council may be intersted in the
>problems that face people researching - many are doing it so if info that
>was being searched was pooled, then u two would be laying floor boards for
>those following to walk on
>- saves reinventing wheels to travel the same paths

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Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-08 Thread webweave

re
>yup... turns out that we are... pretty ironic, huh? David has been able to
give some excellent info

pooling resources is wind under everyone's wings - fly high fellas :)
national aboriginal history and heritage council may be intersted in the
problems that face people researching - many are doing it so if info that
was being searched was pooled, then u two would be laying floor boards for
those following to walk on 
- saves reinventing wheels to travel the same paths

i became aware that i had a sister when i was 36 - she was then 34 

- the woman who 'adopted' her attended her actual birth
i guess this beats 'picking one' from a lineup if a relationship had been
developed between delivering mother and receiving mother - males irrelevant
or maybe my mother and this woman were committed friends, and surrogacy was
operating
- males in consensus
or maybe 'the child' and i are half sisters, and his legitimated sexual
partner (wife) wanted to pick up her husband's belongings personally - no
'mistakes' that way 
or maybe ... 
i have stopped churning over the endless 'scenarios' that may have faced my
mother, 
when i was a late period, she was a 17 year old girl in meekathara in 1954 

when i think about this, i find no confidence in a society that would
filter its people's eyes such that most don't know what was, what is and
with no shame, what could be

my daughter and i drew back in kurdistan and tibet on the 'school atlas' 
- noone restored my school atlas, no sorry 

the map of indigenous australasia is rich and dense - a 'fabric' more than
a map
- eg 66 countries contain NSW in terms of indigenous sovereignty alone, not
to mention 'other' cultures that also identify as sovereign  
- the 'tru' multinational/cultural oz that we all know is our reality

- information/education/everything it seems is VERY political

to anyone taking a seat at any 'table' - if in earnest you will find that
the table is spherical, and that there are fractals for chairs
susanne martain



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Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-08 Thread Liam

yup... turns out that we are... pretty ironic, huh? David has been able to
give some excellent info

peace

>That's the same Elkedra that we are talking about   David. Does this mean
>that you and Liam are related?
>
>Cheers
>
>Rod
>
>Rod Hagen
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia
>WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen
>
>
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Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-05 Thread Rod Hagen

At 09:24 PM 5/8/99, David Sjoberg wrote:

snip
>
>PS I have some invader ancestors who owned Elkedra station in the
>Territory,could you please fill me in on the useage of Elkedra in 'bush
>terms'? Dave


That's the same Elkedra that we are talking about   David. Does this mean
that you and Liam are related?

Cheers

Rod

Rod Hagen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia
WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen


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Fw: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-05 Thread David Sjoberg


-Original Message-
From: David Sjoberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, 5 August 1999 9:52
Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra


>Well said Susanne, continued genocide and unending colonialism take on many
>guises, but outright war is not over in Australia, the drive-by  shooting
of
>11 houses in Redfern last year received little or no media coverage, no
>paper or TV station in Adelaide covered it does anyone remember hearing
>about this terrorism, reconciliation will remain a political football , a
>sellout ,a bad joke until we address peoples contemporary lived experience
>and cease to perpetuate the lie that is Australia through this sort of
media
>censorship,
>Dave
>
>PS I have some invader ancestors who owned Elkedra station in the
>Territory,could you please fill me in on the useage of Elkedra in 'bush
>terms'? Dave
>-Original Message-
>From: webweave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thursday, 5 August 1999 11:54
>Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra
>
>
>>all 'sides' are looking inward and searching for 'origins' and
'identities'
>it
>>seems
>>let's not diminish any energies in our respective searches, by confronting
>>eachother with our different levels of understanding and information about
>'our
>>past' and it is 'our past'
>>- ie a shared past, with sh*tty bits on all 'sides' - more has stuck to
>some
>>than others
>>which is why 'we' today are having to deal with it now so that children
can
>>settle and a sovereign peoples can thrive, no matter 'who' they are OR
>'where'
>>they 'come from'
>>
>>indigozians 'were herded' and are still being 'herded' today
>>- redfern gentrified and the indig population forced out thru high 'rents'
>>among other things
>>- bulldozing the block in redfern is specific eg - homes - what the people
>who
>>live there want, not to be moved to 'somewhere else', they have already
>come
>>from somewhere else to the block, or moved back and will be moved on no
>more
>>
>>everyone looking for their 'roots' has the privilege of staying still long
>>enough to begin the search, and energy enough to fight with eachother
>>
>>others are still too mobile and tired to fight - the one resident left in
a
>>street, may be consumed by thoughts of where they are going to rather than
>>coming from
>>- she is fighting for her future as well as her past and present
>>only the depth varies
>>
>>the practice of herding - moving groups from here to there or just away
>from
>>'here' - regardless of method eg guns/bulldozers/high rents/company lore/
>>progress/equal pay/common lore etc - is the 'dispersal of communities' -
>>experienced by country youth now as well - 'forces' have had consequences
>that
>>result in die back of towns and before that - indig communities
>>
>>- redfern's gentrification is equivalent in consequence to 'ethnic
>cleansing'
>>of particular areas of other cities around the world where religion or
>party
>>dominate
>>in redfern and surry hills and ... 'the most violent' consumption of
>>neighbourhoods continues to occur - total obliteration of the existing
>>community to build a new one as need arises - regardless, of what, or who,
>is
>>in front of, or driving, the 'bulldozer' it seems
>>- in bush terms - elkedra - 'gentrification' is the exclusion of
>indigozians
>>from their neighbourhood ie those willing to be most violent consumers of
>>neighbourhoods by making them 'their own' - fenced off, then thrown off
>again
>>when equal pay was raised and now and imprisoned for tresspass in a
>national
>>forest etc
>>
>>THERE IS NO PLACE FOR INDIGOZ AND MANY NONINDIGOZIANS TO WALK WITHOUT
>THREAT OF
>>REMOVAL OR CHALLENGE
>>
>>CENSORSHIP ON SPEAKOUTS OCCUR TO EITHER IGNORE THE FACTS OR MAKE IT
>PALITABLE
>>ENOUGH FOR SOME TO EVEN THINK ABOUT READING OR SIGNING OR MARCHING
>>
>>what's in a word?
>>indigozians 'come from' here = not ethnic so not 'ethnic cleansing'
>>indigozians 'come from' here = so not 'refugee'
>>indigozians 'come from' here = but not from english speaking background -
>no
>>interpreters
>>indigozians 'come from' here = but are not all 'land/property/home owners&

Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-05 Thread David Sjoberg

Well said Susanne, continued genocide and unending colonialism take on many
guises, but outright war is not over in Australia, the drive-by  shooting of
11 houses in Redfern last year received little or no media coverage, no
paper or TV station in Adelaide covered it does anyone remember hearing
about this terrorism, reconciliation will remain a political football , a
sellout ,a bad joke until we address peoples contemporary lived experience
and cease to perpetuate the lie that is Australia through this sort of media
censorship,
Dave

PS I have some invader ancestors who owned Elkedra station in the
Territory,could you please fill me in on the useage of Elkedra in 'bush
terms'? Dave
-Original Message-
From: webweave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, 5 August 1999 11:54
Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra


>all 'sides' are looking inward and searching for 'origins' and 'identities'
it
>seems
>let's not diminish any energies in our respective searches, by confronting
>eachother with our different levels of understanding and information about
'our
>past' and it is 'our past'
>- ie a shared past, with sh*tty bits on all 'sides' - more has stuck to
some
>than others
>which is why 'we' today are having to deal with it now so that children can
>settle and a sovereign peoples can thrive, no matter 'who' they are OR
'where'
>they 'come from'
>
>indigozians 'were herded' and are still being 'herded' today
>- redfern gentrified and the indig population forced out thru high 'rents'
>among other things
>- bulldozing the block in redfern is specific eg - homes - what the people
who
>live there want, not to be moved to 'somewhere else', they have already
come
>from somewhere else to the block, or moved back and will be moved on no
more
>
>everyone looking for their 'roots' has the privilege of staying still long
>enough to begin the search, and energy enough to fight with eachother
>
>others are still too mobile and tired to fight - the one resident left in a
>street, may be consumed by thoughts of where they are going to rather than
>coming from
>- she is fighting for her future as well as her past and present
>only the depth varies
>
>the practice of herding - moving groups from here to there or just away
from
>'here' - regardless of method eg guns/bulldozers/high rents/company lore/
>progress/equal pay/common lore etc - is the 'dispersal of communities' -
>experienced by country youth now as well - 'forces' have had consequences
that
>result in die back of towns and before that - indig communities
>
>- redfern's gentrification is equivalent in consequence to 'ethnic
cleansing'
>of particular areas of other cities around the world where religion or
party
>dominate
>in redfern and surry hills and ... 'the most violent' consumption of
>neighbourhoods continues to occur - total obliteration of the existing
>community to build a new one as need arises - regardless, of what, or who,
is
>in front of, or driving, the 'bulldozer' it seems
>- in bush terms - elkedra - 'gentrification' is the exclusion of
indigozians
>from their neighbourhood ie those willing to be most violent consumers of
>neighbourhoods by making them 'their own' - fenced off, then thrown off
again
>when equal pay was raised and now and imprisoned for tresspass in a
national
>forest etc
>
>THERE IS NO PLACE FOR INDIGOZ AND MANY NONINDIGOZIANS TO WALK WITHOUT
THREAT OF
>REMOVAL OR CHALLENGE
>
>CENSORSHIP ON SPEAKOUTS OCCUR TO EITHER IGNORE THE FACTS OR MAKE IT
PALITABLE
>ENOUGH FOR SOME TO EVEN THINK ABOUT READING OR SIGNING OR MARCHING
>
>what's in a word?
>indigozians 'come from' here = not ethnic so not 'ethnic cleansing'
>indigozians 'come from' here = so not 'refugee'
>indigozians 'come from' here = but not from english speaking background -
no
>interpreters
>indigozians 'come from' here = but are not all 'land/property/home owners'
>indigozians 'come from' here = so not terra nullius
>indigozians 'come from' here = but not = sovereign selves
>that's what's in a word
>
>manyozians 'come from' here = but do not know their origins
>many others don't know where they are headed
>cheers
>susanne
>
>
>
>
>
>---
>RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at
http://www.mail-archive.com/
>To

Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-04 Thread webweave

all 'sides' are looking inward and searching for 'origins' and 'identities' it
seems
let's not diminish any energies in our respective searches, by confronting
eachother with our different levels of understanding and information about 'our
past' and it is 'our past' 
- ie a shared past, with sh*tty bits on all 'sides' - more has stuck to some
than others
which is why 'we' today are having to deal with it now so that children can
settle and a sovereign peoples can thrive, no matter 'who' they are OR 'where'
they 'come from' 

indigozians 'were herded' and are still being 'herded' today 
- redfern gentrified and the indig population forced out thru high 'rents'
among other things
- bulldozing the block in redfern is specific eg - homes - what the people who
live there want, not to be moved to 'somewhere else', they have already come
from somewhere else to the block, or moved back and will be moved on no more 

everyone looking for their 'roots' has the privilege of staying still long
enough to begin the search, and energy enough to fight with eachother  

others are still too mobile and tired to fight - the one resident left in a
street, may be consumed by thoughts of where they are going to rather than
coming from 
- she is fighting for her future as well as her past and present
only the depth varies

the practice of herding - moving groups from here to there or just away from
'here' - regardless of method eg guns/bulldozers/high rents/company lore/
progress/equal pay/common lore etc - is the 'dispersal of communities' -
experienced by country youth now as well - 'forces' have had consequences that
result in die back of towns and before that - indig communities

- redfern's gentrification is equivalent in consequence to 'ethnic cleansing'
of particular areas of other cities around the world where religion or party
dominate
in redfern and surry hills and ... 'the most violent' consumption of
neighbourhoods continues to occur - total obliteration of the existing
community to build a new one as need arises - regardless, of what, or who, is
in front of, or driving, the 'bulldozer' it seems
- in bush terms - elkedra - 'gentrification' is the exclusion of indigozians
from their neighbourhood ie those willing to be most violent consumers of
neighbourhoods by making them 'their own' - fenced off, then thrown off again
when equal pay was raised and now and imprisoned for tresspass in a national
forest etc 

THERE IS NO PLACE FOR INDIGOZ AND MANY NONINDIGOZIANS TO WALK WITHOUT THREAT OF
REMOVAL OR CHALLENGE 

CENSORSHIP ON SPEAKOUTS OCCUR TO EITHER IGNORE THE FACTS OR MAKE IT PALITABLE
ENOUGH FOR SOME TO EVEN THINK ABOUT READING OR SIGNING OR MARCHING

what's in a word?
indigozians 'come from' here = not ethnic so not 'ethnic cleansing'
indigozians 'come from' here = so not 'refugee'
indigozians 'come from' here = but not from english speaking background - no
interpreters
indigozians 'come from' here = but are not all 'land/property/home owners'
indigozians 'come from' here = so not terra nullius
indigozians 'come from' here = but not = sovereign selves
that's what's in a word

manyozians 'come from' here = but do not know their origins
many others don't know where they are headed
cheers
susanne





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Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-04 Thread Liam

> A "perfect understanding" no doubt meant that the Aboriginal people of the
>area were all too well acquainted with the power of the rifle.
>
>(To be continued)


Just what I'm after...my family was the Kennedy's who "owned" it, I believe,
with some other guy...I can't remember his name, Phillips maybe...

Family history seems just a little too colorful for my liking

looking forward to anything you can give me...

peace

Liam

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[recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-04 Thread Rod Hagen

Liam's request for information about Elkedra provides a nice opportunity to
give a thumbnail sketch of some of the implications of the white occupation
of Indigenous lands. This is the first installment.

Elkedra is a cattle station on the south western edge of the Barkly
Tablelands of the Northern Territory. It lies on or close to  the boundary
between the Alyawarre, Warumungu, Kaititj and Wakaya people.

(the following is based largely on materials contained in  "A Claim to
Areas of Traditional Land by the Alyawarra and Kaititja"  -  Rod Hagen and
Meredith Rowell, Central Land Council, 1978)

Elkedra - the area was first "taken up" for pastoral purposes  by the
Willowie Land and Pastoral Association in 1888 and stocked with 1800 head
of cattle. In 1889-90 many cattle were killed as the Aboriginal owners
sought to force off the pastoralists. Conflict continued until 1895 when
the run was abandoned. It seems likely that combined groups of Alyawarra,
Kaytetye and Wakaya people were involved. These groups had suffered heavily
20 years earlier after they attacked the Barrow Creek Telegraph station in
1872. TGH Strehlow commented that after the attack on Barrow Creek "camps
of natives were attacked with rifles not only at Barrow Creek, but in the
districts of adjacent tribes  men , women and children were shot down
at places up to fifty miles from Barrow Creek."  This was not the last time
that the indigenous people of the area were under fire from European
invaders.

In the 1890's the combined Aboriginal group were successful in driving off
the original pastoralists, but the cost was massively high, and the effect
only temporary.  If you take into account the relevant population sizes,
the impact of "reprisals" on the Aboriginal people of the area concerned
were far greater than those that we see today in Kosovo, or even those of
the Nazi genocides of WW2.  One report of the situation at Elkedra in 1898
indicates that, as a result of Willowie pastoral company "reprisals" for
cattle (not people) killing,  there were only 45 Aboriginal men left alive,
compared to 460 women.  This suggests a "casualty rate" of at least 40% of
the population! Nevertheless the Aboriginal community were successful in
keeping the pastoralist out of the area until well into the 20th century.

The NT's Chief Inspector of Aboriginals in 1918, J.T. Beckett, reported on
the area in 1918:

"The Aluari [Alyawere - RH] tribe, a neighbouring [to the Warumungu - RH]
and friendly tribe on the east, who have a number of the Warramunga married
amongst them is a really fine tribe of Aboriginies, who occupy their
country in a state of primitive savagery.  This tribe many years ago  when
the Frew and Elkedra Rivers were stocked by the Alawie (sic) Pastoral
Company, endeavoured to drive the settlers away by spearing cattle and
attcaking camps. According to the old men of the tribe, with whom I have
talked and white men who were in the country, the tribe suffered terribly
for their mistakes. The stock were withdrawn and the country abandoned for
20 years. When a few years ago the old Frew River Station Block was
re-occupied by Messrs Hanlon and Weldon who put cattle and horses there,
the natives met them with friendliness. A perfect understanding was arrived
at by both sides who undertook to respect each other's rights" (Report on
Aboriginals to the Chief protector of Aborigines, Darwin 1918)

 A "perfect understanding" no doubt meant that the Aboriginal people of the
area were all too well acquainted with the power of the rifle.

(To be continued)

Rod Hagen

Rod Hagen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia
WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen


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Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-03 Thread Bob Ellis

Dear Liam

Elkedra is a property in the Davenport Ranges area (NT). I've forgotten the name of 
the lessee(in 1985) but
I do remember being hunted off the property with the TOs when I first visited. The TOs 
told me that the
"boss" was OK but when we went to the homestead they all scattered and left me alone 
to confont him -
uncomfortable when you aren't sure if the "boss" is armed or not and if so, whether he 
is likely to shoot
out your tyres if you stand your ground. (Eventually) he did agree to me fencing off a 
stone arrangement
with dreaming associations  near one of the station tracks east of the homestead that 
was threatened by
grading. There was also a sacred object store not far from the homestead that he 
didn't know about which
appeared not to have been interfered with and which must have been around in the 
thirties.  The property
seemed well managed and had good stock on it. Bruce Reyburn should be able to tell you 
more - it was in his
region when he worked for CLC and lived at Tennant Creek.

Liam wrote:

> Does anyone here know ANYTHING about the Cattle Station, Elkedra? anything
> at all would be good...I know next to nothing
>
> My family is from there...way back in the 30s...
>
> peace
>
> ---
> RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at 
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>without
> permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use."
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--
+---+
Bob Ellis
Manager
Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander Heritage
Cultural Heritage Branch
Environmental Protection Agency
Phone: 07 - 3227 8988   FAX: 07 - 3227 7803
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit us at http://www.env.qld.gov.au/environment/culture


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Re: [recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-03 Thread Rod Hagen

At 06:48 AM 4/8/99, Liam wrote:
>Does anyone here know ANYTHING about the Cattle Station, Elkedra? anything
>at all would be good...I know next to nothing
>
>My family is from there...way back in the 30s...
>
>peace
>


Both Bruce R and I have a had a bit to do with Elkedra , Liam.  What would
you like to know?

Cheers

Rod

Rod Hagen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia
WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen


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[recoznet2] Elkedra

1999-08-03 Thread Liam

Does anyone here know ANYTHING about the Cattle Station, Elkedra? anything
at all would be good...I know next to nothing

My family is from there...way back in the 30s...

peace

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