Re: the 'official' point of view expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion
[stripping Cc: list] On Thu, 03 Aug 2006, Edward Shishkin wrote: What kind of forward error correction would that be, Actually we use checksums, not ECC. If checksum is wrong, then run fsck - it will remove the whole disk cluster, that represent 64K of data. Well, that's quite a difference... Checksum is checked before unsafe decompression (when trying to decompress incorrect data can lead to fatal things). Is this sufficient? How about corruptions that lead to the same checksum and can then confuse the decompressor? Is the decompressor safe in that it does not scribble over memory it has not allocated? -- Matthias Andree
Re: Ebuild/rpm/deb repo's (was Re: reiser4 can now bear with filled fs, looks stable to me...)
On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 04:23:16PM +0200, Maciej Sołtysiak wrote: I tried to create a kernel package with reiser4 for ubuntu-server (dapper) They ship a 2.6.15 (heavily modified) kernel upon which the current reiser4-for-2.6.17-3.patch applies fine but unfortunately miscompiles, eg. fs/reiser4/plugin/file_ops_readdir.c: In function 'llseek_common_dir': fs/reiser4/plugin/file_ops_readdir.c:486: warning: implicit declaration of function 'mutex_lock' fs/reiser4/plugin/file_ops_readdir.c:486: error: 'struct inode' has no member named 'i_mutex' fs/reiser4/plugin/file_ops_readdir.c:508: warning: implicit declaration of function 'mutex_unlock' fs/reiser4/plugin/file_ops_readdir.c:508: error: 'struct inode' has no member named 'i_mutex' I bet these are trivial to fix and I will try to do this but my time constraints currently prevent me from doing that. Guess these won't be so easy, afaik 2.6.15 lacks the semaphore-mutex transition. There also is an issue with grub. The kernel alone is fine for creating partitions (or loop devices) but with grub not patched we can't install boot partitions. No biggy, I guess, but still a problem. Few people keep a 32MB ext2 for /boot purposes these days, so it really is imperative that grub can read kernel images off a reiser4 /. I could create a vanilla + reiser4 kernel package easily but that would be stripped off of the important dapper/debian patches and that is a no-no for dapper users, I guess. At least for non-guru freaks who run their own, modified kernels. Sure. The best thing might be to back-port internal fixes in fs/reiser4/ to reiser4-for-2.6.15-x so the API calls match the kernel. Patching 2.6.15 with a 2.6.17 patch is a no-no. But you _are_ taking a step forward, and your effort is appreciated : D Kind regards, Chris pgpaKpM0N5nTR.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Infamous Reiser4-randomly-blocks-for-ages-and-writes-the-hd-continously-in-the-mean-while now with a btrace log! (hope it helps)
On 8/6/06, rvalles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bug is as I've explained a thousand times. (and it does only affect kernels newer than 2.6.12, all of them, that's one thing I'm sure) Newer kernels have a nice feature called blktrace to trace the block layer activity. I include with this mail a log of the whole block (this time it was just about 30 seconds, the previous one, when I was sending a mail to a maillist, it was 10 minutes or maybe more). How did I do it: - Write a mail to myself (small mail, btw). - Start the btrace. - Send it. (I pressed 'y' at mutt mail sending screen) - Look at the HD led. - When it stopped, the crap @ btrace stopped too. I then stopped btrace. I hope that this log helps enlighten someone. Now, to add to the data about the bug: - My new desktop uses reiser4. It is affected, too. - Just by typing reboot at my old desktop, the bug triggers inmediatly after the wall message is sent, and lasts about 10 minutes. - Latest reiser4 fsck was run with --build-fs on my old desktop the day before; The FS had got, before that, some corrupcion (probably a bug) that caused kernel panics, so the FS is quite clean now, yet I can reproduce the bugs. I will be happy to help further in any way. I also have many friends who use reiser4 and are experiencing it; it would be a shame if reiser4 finally got merged into the kernel with this bug still there. 91% of the requests are 4K in size, 77% of requests are write barriers. looks like there's something that causes bitmap blocks to be written synchronously. there's also a LOT of duplication, blocks that are written and then immediately RE-written. the 4k block at sector 23246207 is written 226 times over the course of this trace, each time seemingly in a pair (write it, rewrite it, do other stuff, write it, re-write it, etc). this is pathological behavior, it's a real bug even without the performance loss. NATE
Re: Ebuild/rpm/deb repo's (was Re: reiser4 can now bear with filled fs, looks stable to me...)
Christian Trefzer wrote: On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 04:23:16PM +0200, Maciej Sołtysiak wrote: There also is an issue with grub. The kernel alone is fine for creating partitions (or loop devices) but with grub not patched we can't install boot partitions. No biggy, I guess, but still a problem. Few people keep a 32MB ext2 for /boot purposes these days, so it really is imperative that grub can read kernel images off a reiser4 /. I think there are patches, but I do keep a 32 meg ext3 for /boot, because it seems like no matter what FS I choose, there's some sort of caveat involving Grub. I know when installing XFS as a root FS on Ubuntu, it talks about Grub problems... I mean, having Grub support everything would be nice, but if you're reformatting anyway, I don't think it's that imperative.
Re: the 'official' point of view expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion
On Jul 31, 3:41pm, Theodore Tso wrote: } Subject: Re: the 'official' point of view expressed by kernelnewbies.or On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 06:54:06PM +0200, Matthias Andree wrote: This looks rather like an education issue rather than a technical limit. We aren't talking about the same issue: I was asking to do it on-the-fly. Umounting the filesystem, running e2fsck and resize2fs is something different ;-) There was stuff by Andreas Dilger, to support online resizing of mounted ext2 file systems. I never cared to look for this (does it support ext3, does it work with current kernels, merge status) since offline resizing was always sufficient for me. With the latest e2fsprogs and 2.6 kernels, the online resizing support has been merged in, and as long as the filesystem was created with space reserved for growing the filesystem (which is now the default, or if the filesystem has the off-line prepration step ext2prepare run on it), you can run resize2fs on a mounted filesystem and grow an ext2/3 filesystem on-line. And yes, you get more inodes as you add more disk blocks, using the original inode ratio that was established when the filesystem was created. Are all the necessary tools in and documented in e2fsprogs? It seems that finding all the bits and pieces to do ext3 on-line expansion has been a study in obfuscation. Somewhat surprising since this feature is a must for enterprise class storage management. - Ted Best wishes for a productive week. }-- End of excerpt from Theodore Tso As always, Dr. G.W. Wettstein, Ph.D. Enjellic Systems Development, LLC. 4206 N. 19th Ave. Specializing in information infra-structure Fargo, ND 58102development. PH: 701-281-1686 FAX: 701-281-3949 EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ooohh.. FreeBSD is faster over loopback, when compared to Linux over the wire. Film at 11. -- Linus Torvalds
Re: the 'official' point of view expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion
With the latest e2fsprogs and 2.6 kernels, the online resizing support has been merged in, and as long as the filesystem was created with space reserved for growing the filesystem (which is now the default, or if the filesystem has the off-line prepration step ext2prepare run on it), you can run resize2fs on a mounted filesystem and grow an ext2/3 filesystem on-line. And yes, you get more inodes as you add more disk blocks, using the original inode ratio that was established when the filesystem was created. Are all the necessary tools in and documented in e2fsprogs? It seems that finding all the bits and pieces to do ext3 on-line expansion has been a study in obfuscation. Somewhat surprising since this feature is a must for enterprise class storage management. Enterprise will hardly use ext3 on the big ones, but one of the more commercial things. Jan Engelhardt --
Re: Ebuild/rpm/deb repo's (was Re: reiser4 can now bear with filled fs, looks stable to me...)
Hello David, Monday, August 7, 2006, 7:09:42 PM, you wrote: I mean, having Grub support everything would be nice, but if you're reformatting anyway, I don't think it's that imperative. I have come up to that conclusion too. If someone would be getting an r4-enabled kernel on an already installed system they would not care much for grub support unless they have only one root partition. I have built today an r4-patched ubuntu kernel package (yes, debs!) using edgy eft's git-based build system, which allows me to build ubuntu kernels! Yes, with all the stuff they have in there, with all the configuration versions they support (-386, -k7, -server, etc...) I booted one and I will try to create an r4 partition later today. Please note, that this is done all under virtualization (Microsoft Virtual PC). -- Best regards, Maciej
Experimental Reiser4-enabled Ubuntu kernels ready for testing
Hello, as I said, I'd be doing this, so... ftp://ubuntu.ae.poznan.pl/ There is a readme.txt file that says: == Description == This directory contains Ubuntu Linux kernel image packages with support for Reiser4 (http://wiki.namesys.com) == Usage == 1. download a desired kernel image 2. install the kernel: $ sudo dpkg -i downloaded_file 3. reboot, let the new kernel boot 4. prepare a partition (eg. fdisk /dev/sdb) 5. get reiser4progs (mkfs.reiser4, fsck.reiser4, ...) $ sudo apt-get install reiser4progs 6. make the filesystem: $ mkfs.reiser4 /dev/sdb1 7. mount it: $ mkdir /mnt/r4 $ mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/r4 8. mount should show: $ mount | grep reiser4 /dev/sdb1 on /r4 type reiser4 (rw) 9. lsmod | grep reiser4 shoud show: reiser4 418392 1 10. Play! == Technical details == The images were built using Edgy Eft's build system on current ubuntu GIT repository. The configurations of the kernels are the same as ubuntu ships them + reiser4 option enabled as module. The images come in a few flavours: 386,686,k7, server-bigiron, server. == Disclaimer == This is all experimental stuff. These are my first publicly available kernel images. Tested *only* on my virtualized machine on Edgy Eft! Please test and report. I am open to suggestions. One more thing... If it breaks, don't sue me, my pet hamster is an excellent attourney. == Contact == My name is Maciej Sołtysiak You can reach me at maciej(at)soltysiak(dot)com
Re: Experimental Reiser4-enabled Ubuntu kernels ready for testing
There is a readme.txt file that says: Keyboard shortcuts made me send prematurely :-| Please note that these are my first images done with not much of experience in the area. The host: ubuntu.ae.poznan.pl is a virtualized machine, so don't go crazy if it's slow or dead, just notify me :-) Please test, I have been testing it only under one instalation under virtual pc. Regards, Maciej
reiser4 needs fsck after crash
Hello, I'm using a reiser4 FS for compiling my linux kernel. Today, the kernel panics while compiling. I guess it was a reiser4 panic. I can't be sure as I was using an X console, but I'm often hit by such reiser4 panics (see my others posts on this list). So I reboot using the reset button and I restart the compilation. I then had weird compilation errors until I unmount this FS and fsck it. Here is the fsck output: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# fsck.reiser4 --fix /dev/vglinux1/lvkernel *** This is an EXPERIMENTAL version of fsck.reiser4. Read README first. *** Fscking the /dev/vglinux1/lvkernel block device. Will fix minor corruptions of the Reiser4 SuperBlock. Will fix minor corruptions of the Reiser4 FileSystem. Continue? (Yes/No): yes * fsck.reiser4 started at Mon Aug 7 19:28:33 2006 Reiser4 fs was detected on /dev/vglinux1/lvkernel. Master super block (16): magic: ReIsEr4 blksize:4096 format: 0x0 (format40) uuid: 4382e9f8-e19b-4d6f-9da7-a81d8c13276e label: none Format super block (17): plugin: format40 description:Disk-format for reiser4. magic: ReIsEr40FoRmAt flushes:0 mkfs id:0x2402ed58 blocks: 524288 free blocks:342801 root block: 347110 tail policy:0x2 (smart) next oid: 0xf8ce3 file count: 65713 tree height:4 key policy: LARGE CHECKING STORAGE TREE Read nodes 60794 Nodes left in the tree 60794 Leaves of them 59315, Twigs of them 1457 Time interval: Mon Aug 7 19:28:33 2006 - Mon Aug 7 19:29:49 2006 CHECKING EXTENT REGIONS. Read twigs 1457 Time interval: Mon Aug 7 19:29:50 2006 - Mon Aug 7 19:29:52 2006 CHECKING SEMANTIC TREE FSCK: Node (346272), item (23), [7b715:d06b6d616c6c6f63:7b88c] (stat40): wrong bytes (2199023252636), Fixed to (590). FSCK: Node (283954), item (4), [5e40b:d0657874322d6e6f:5e40f] (stat40): wrong bytes (4096), Fixed to (693). Found 65719 objects. Time interval: Mon Aug 7 19:29:53 2006 - Mon Aug 7 19:31:19 2006 * fsck.reiser4 finished at Mon Aug 7 19:31:19 2006 Closing fs...done FS is consistent. After this, I was able to compile again. Note that I found the following message in dmesg (before fsck): Aug 7 17:50:19 antares kernel: reiser4[make(3875)]: present_lw_sd (fs/reiser4/plugin/item/static_stat.c:276)[]: Aug 7 17:50:19 antares kernel: WARNING: is encountered It woud be nice if reiser4 could print the name of these partially converted files. But my main concern is that i was thinking that using a *journalized* file system will make useless the fsck after crash. Am I wrong here ? ~~ laurent
Re: Experimental Reiser4-enabled Ubuntu kernels ready for testing
On Mon, 2006-08-07 at 21:29 +0200, Maciej Sołtysiak wrote: There is a readme.txt file that says: Keyboard shortcuts made me send prematurely :-| Please note that these are my first images done with not much of experience in the area. The host: ubuntu.ae.poznan.pl is a virtualized machine, so don't go crazy if it's slow or dead, just notify me :-) Please test, I have been testing it only under one instalation under virtual pc. Regards, Maciej Nice :) http://wiki.namesys.com/Howto_reiser4_ububtu are the instructions from your e-mail. http://wiki.namesys.com/installreiser4 is the general Howto list for as many as 2 distro's, Gentoo and Ubuntu! Greets Sander
ext3 vs reiserfs speed (was Re: metadata plugins (was Re: the 'official' point of view expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion))
Hi! Using guilt as an argument in a technical discussion is a flashing red sign that says I have no technical rebuttal Wow, that is really nervy. Let's recap this all: * reiser4 has a 2x performance advantage over the next fastest FS (ext3), and when compression ships in a month that will double again as well as save space. See http://www.namesys.com/benchmarks.html, and Does that mean that ext3 is faster than reiser3? Wow, that would be good reason to switch default filesystem to ext3 (or reiser4?) in next suse release. Pavel -- Thanks for all the (sleeping) penguins.
Re: Ebuild/rpm/deb repo's (was Re: reiser4 can now bear with filled fs, looks stable to me...)
Maciej Sołtysiak wrote: Hello David, hi I have built today an r4-patched ubuntu kernel package (yes, debs!) Sounds good. I don't have an ubuntu to test with at the moment, though. Please note, that this is done all under virtualization (Microsoft Virtual PC). Not to nitpick, but isn't that emulation? Or have they actually done real virtualization yet?
Re: Ebuild/rpm/deb repo's (was Re: reiser4 can now bear with filled fs, looks stable to me...)
Hello David, Tuesday, August 8, 2006, 1:23:01 AM, you wrote: Sounds good. I don't have an ubuntu to test with at the moment, though. Well, both MS Virtual PC and VMWare are free of charge, so installing is a real snap. Not to nitpick, but isn't that emulation? Or have they actually done real virtualization yet? I don't know the differences, can you shed some light? AFAICS M$ will be shipping Virtual PC with Vista to allow people run older software under virtual machines. (be it virtualized or emulated) If Virtual PC is emulation, maybe Virtual Server 2005 R2 (also free of charge) is virtualizaton. -- Best regards, Maciej
Re: Ebuild/rpm/deb repo's (was Re: reiser4 can now bear with filled fs, looks stable to me...)
Maciej Sołtysiak wrote: Hello David, Tuesday, August 8, 2006, 1:23:01 AM, you wrote: Sounds good. I don't have an ubuntu to test with at the moment, though. Well, both MS Virtual PC and VMWare are free of charge, so installing is a real snap. Under what, though? I don't want MS crap on my OS X (need that for work ATM), and I can't imagine they've ported it to Linux. I have no reason to boot Windows except for games, and if I was going to do that, I may as well shrink my Windows partition to make room for a native install. Which would be fine, but it's a lot of work when I don't run Ubuntu normally. I'd be willing to test on the one Ubuntu server I run, but it's across the country until next week, and also work-critical. Not to nitpick, but isn't that emulation? Or have they actually done real virtualization yet? I don't know the differences, can you shed some light? AFAICS M$ will be shipping Virtual PC with Vista to allow people run older software under virtual machines. (be it virtualized or emulated) Still hard to say. Virtualization splits up the real hardware. It's like a scheduler, only for OSes. Emulation is more like an interpreter -- it reads each instruction and then executes something that does the same thing. Emulation can work from any arch to any arch, so Rosetta (allowing PPC OS X apps to run on OS X86) is emulation. Emulation is usually at least 2x slower than native. Virtualization usually approaches native for CPU stuff, but at least disk IO and graphics usually have to be emulated -- so no 3D acceleration, so no games under a guest OS. If MS wanted to do the best possible thing for their consumers, they'd give you a free XP under VirtualPC with Vista, and actually do virtualization. If M$ wanted to make it even more likely for people to want to upgrade to Vista, they might deliberately make it cost tons of money and make it emulation, so that XP looks slower, and native Vista apps look so much faster that people complain until everything works on Vista. If Virtual PC is emulation, maybe Virtual Server 2005 R2 (also free of charge) is virtualizaton. I have no idea what Virtual Server is.
Re: the 'official' point of view expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that finding all the bits and pieces to do ext3 on-line expansion has been a study in obfuscation. Somewhat surprising since this feature is a must for enterprise class storage management. Not really. Having people who can dig through the obfuscation is also a must for enterprise class anything. The desktop is where it's really crucial to have good documentation and ease of use. The enterprise can afford to pay people who already knew it well, helped to develop it... Grandma probably got Linux because she couldn't afford a new OS, or computer. Of course, I won't go so far as to try to say Linux should focus on this. Linux should focus on whatever Linux developers feel like focusing on.
