Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-12 Thread Cosimo Cecchi 
Hi again,

I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in Nautilus:
- https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680983 - this is about
changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
"Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
in the UI.
- https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683752 - when an user
tries to open a file for which there are no applications available, we
show a message saying "There is no application installed for %s
files". The patch adds quotes around the %s, to ensure the file type
stands out from the rest of the string.

Thanks,
Cosimo
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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-12 Thread Shaun McCance 
On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 15:15 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi wrote:
> Hi again,
> 
> I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in Nautilus:
> - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680983 - this is about
> changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
> "Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
> email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
> there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
> directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
> in the UI.

Surely gutting nautilus-sendto should get a bit more exposure
and discussion than just jamming it in after the freeze. Has
anybody looked at what other modules use nautilus-sendto to
share stuff?

--
Shaun


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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-12 Thread Cosimo Cecchi 
Hi Shaun,

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Shaun McCance  wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 15:15 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi wrote:
>> Hi again,
>>
>> I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in 
>> Nautilus:
>> - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680983 - this is about
>> changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
>> "Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
>> email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
>> there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
>> directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
>> in the UI.
>
> Surely gutting nautilus-sendto should get a bit more exposure
> and discussion than just jamming it in after the freeze. Has
> anybody looked at what other modules use nautilus-sendto to
> share stuff?

[CC-ing Bastien]

I'm sorry, I should have probably explained this a little better.
Nobody is trying to gut nautilus-sendto, the goal is to have something
working nicely for the use case of sending a file to somebody. As far
as I can see, the Email option is really the only interesting one
working correctly for nautilus-sendto at the moment, and that's where
the patch came from.

Note that nautilus-sendto has two parts: the module itself and a
Nautilus extension that adds the item to the context menus. Only the
extension lives in the nautilus source tree right now; I cannot really
answer the question about whether it's used by other modules, probably
Bastien would know. Of course, the nautilus change doesn't make any
sense without the corresponding change that removes the dialog in
nautilus-sendto, so probably Bastien should send an UI freeze request
for that first?

I should also note that this is not a high priority bug for me, and
it's also completely fine if we decide it's better to punt such a
change to the next cycle.

Thanks,
Cosimo
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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-12 Thread Bastien Nocera 
Em Wed, 2012-09-12 às 16:47 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi escreveu:
> Hi Shaun,
> 
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Shaun McCance  wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 15:15 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi wrote:
> >> Hi again,
> >>
> >> I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in 
> >> Nautilus:
> >> - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680983 - this is about
> >> changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
> >> "Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
> >> email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
> >> there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
> >> directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
> >> in the UI.
> >
> > Surely gutting nautilus-sendto should get a bit more exposure
> > and discussion than just jamming it in after the freeze. Has
> > anybody looked at what other modules use nautilus-sendto to
> > share stuff?

They do, and it doesn't break that, per-se. It just restricts the target
destination to be e-mail.

> [CC-ing Bastien]
> 
> I'm sorry, I should have probably explained this a little better.
> Nobody is trying to gut nautilus-sendto, the goal is to have something
> working nicely for the use case of sending a file to somebody. As far
> as I can see, the Email option is really the only interesting one
> working correctly for nautilus-sendto at the moment, and that's where
> the patch came from.

It's not the only interesting one working correctly, but it's the only
one for which a workflow with a UI that doesn't suck was designed.

For example, the nautilus-sendto plugin in gnome-bluetooth. It works,
but it looks like crap, and even more so if you don't have any Bluetooth
targets around.

> Note that nautilus-sendto has two parts: the module itself and a
> Nautilus extension that adds the item to the context menus. Only the
> extension lives in the nautilus source tree right now; I cannot really
> answer the question about whether it's used by other modules, probably
> Bastien would know. Of course, the nautilus change doesn't make any
> sense without the corresponding change that removes the dialog in
> nautilus-sendto, so probably Bastien should send an UI freeze request
> for that first?

I wouldn't have. There would be no UI to nautilus-sendto, so it wouldn't
change the UI as much as change the workflow.

> I should also note that this is not a high priority bug for me, and
> it's also completely fine if we decide it's better to punt such a
> change to the next cycle.

In which case we'd think about how we want to implement sharing for the
other targets, and implement this properly (eg. without the legacy) in
nautilus-sendto.

Cheers

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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-12 Thread Shaun McCance 
On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 22:25 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> Em Wed, 2012-09-12 às 16:47 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi escreveu:
> > Hi Shaun,
> > 
> > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Shaun McCance  wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 15:15 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi wrote:
> > >> Hi again,
> > >>
> > >> I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in 
> > >> Nautilus:
> > >> - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680983 - this is about
> > >> changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
> > >> "Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
> > >> email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
> > >> there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
> > >> directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
> > >> in the UI.
> > >
> > > Surely gutting nautilus-sendto should get a bit more exposure
> > > and discussion than just jamming it in after the freeze. Has
> > > anybody looked at what other modules use nautilus-sendto to
> > > share stuff?
> 
> They do, and it doesn't break that, per-se. It just restricts the target
> destination to be e-mail.

So a cursory grep indicates that nautilus-sendto is used by
evolution, evince, yelp, rhythmbox, and cheese. I understand
this wouldn't exactly break these modules, but it would offer
a different experience than what the maintainers expected.
And that potentially invalidates documentation and marketing
materials for any of those modules (or third-party modules
I've missed).

I suspect none of them would even have used nautilus-sendto
to begin with if this were the original behavior, because I
really don't see how it's any different than

  g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri("mailto:?attach=...";);

Especially for evolution, it's very strange to call out to
another program just to open its own composer window.

> > [CC-ing Bastien]
> > 
> > I'm sorry, I should have probably explained this a little better.
> > Nobody is trying to gut nautilus-sendto, the goal is to have something
> > working nicely for the use case of sending a file to somebody. As far
> > as I can see, the Email option is really the only interesting one
> > working correctly for nautilus-sendto at the moment, and that's where
> > the patch came from.
> 
> It's not the only interesting one working correctly, but it's the only
> one for which a workflow with a UI that doesn't suck was designed.
> 
> For example, the nautilus-sendto plugin in gnome-bluetooth. It works,
> but it looks like crap, and even more so if you don't have any Bluetooth
> targets around.

But the other targets do work. I've used them. I'm sure
we could come up with better designs for them. But then
let's do that, rather than throwing them away. I'd much
rather we came up with a design and put it through the
feature proposal process for 3.8.

--
Shaun


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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-12 Thread Bastien Nocera 
Em Wed, 2012-09-12 às 19:23 -0400, Shaun McCance escreveu:
> On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 22:25 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
> > Em Wed, 2012-09-12 às 16:47 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi escreveu:
> > > Hi Shaun,
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Shaun McCance  wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 15:15 -0400, Cosimo Cecchi wrote:
> > > >> Hi again,
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in 
> > > >> Nautilus:
> > > >> - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680983 - this is about
> > > >> changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
> > > >> "Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
> > > >> email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
> > > >> there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
> > > >> directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
> > > >> in the UI.
> > > >
> > > > Surely gutting nautilus-sendto should get a bit more exposure
> > > > and discussion than just jamming it in after the freeze. Has
> > > > anybody looked at what other modules use nautilus-sendto to
> > > > share stuff?
> > 
> > They do, and it doesn't break that, per-se. It just restricts the target
> > destination to be e-mail.
> 
> So a cursory grep indicates that nautilus-sendto is used by
> evolution, evince, yelp, rhythmbox, and cheese. I understand
> this wouldn't exactly break these modules, but it would offer
> a different experience than what the maintainers expected.

Not exactly that different.

> And that potentially invalidates documentation and marketing
> materials for any of those modules (or third-party modules
> I've missed).

Is there any documentation mentioning it?

> I suspect none of them would even have used nautilus-sendto
> to begin with if this were the original behavior, because I
> really don't see how it's any different than
> 
>   g_app_info_launch_default_for_uri("mailto:?attach=...";);

About 150 lines of code to handle different mailers in nautilus-sendto
tell a different story:
http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus-sendto/tree/src/plugins/evolution/evolution.c#n305

> Especially for evolution, it's very strange to call out to
> another program just to open its own composer window.

I agree, far from optimised. It should really be done internally within
Evolution, but it was a low-cost way of having the functionality
straight away.

> > > [CC-ing Bastien]
> > > 
> > > I'm sorry, I should have probably explained this a little better.
> > > Nobody is trying to gut nautilus-sendto, the goal is to have something
> > > working nicely for the use case of sending a file to somebody. As far
> > > as I can see, the Email option is really the only interesting one
> > > working correctly for nautilus-sendto at the moment, and that's where
> > > the patch came from.
> > 
> > It's not the only interesting one working correctly, but it's the only
> > one for which a workflow with a UI that doesn't suck was designed.
> > 
> > For example, the nautilus-sendto plugin in gnome-bluetooth. It works,
> > but it looks like crap, and even more so if you don't have any Bluetooth
> > targets around.
> 
> But the other targets do work. I've used them. I'm sure
> we could come up with better designs for them. But then
> let's do that, rather than throwing them away. I'd much
> rather we came up with a design and put it through the
> feature proposal process for 3.8.

There's the full list of plugins:
- evolution, half-working as e-d-s changes broke the auto-completion
- gajim, not useful to GNOME
- nautilus-burn, really obsolete
- pidgin, not useful to GNOME
- removable-devices, obsoleted by nautilus' new features
- upnp, not very useful at all

From third-parties:
- gnome-bluetooth, UI is completely broken, and functionality is already
accessible through the Bluetooth applet.
- empathy, probably the best written one, no real alternative here, but
the interaction needs to be redesigned

I've maintained nautilus-sendto for the past 7 years, and I'm happy with
those changes. nautilus-sendto's UI has been in serious need for a
redesign, and this is the first part of it.

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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-13 Thread Frederic Peters 
Bastien Nocera wrote:

> I've maintained nautilus-sendto for the past 7 years, and I'm happy with
> those changes. nautilus-sendto's UI has been in serious need for a
> redesign, and this is the first part of it.

But it's not the right moment in the cycle to get a first part of a
redesign in. I would prefer the whole redesign be set as a feature for
3.8.


Fred
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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-13 Thread Matthias Clasen 
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Frederic Peters  wrote:
> Bastien Nocera wrote:
>
>> I've maintained nautilus-sendto for the past 7 years, and I'm happy with
>> those changes. nautilus-sendto's UI has been in serious need for a
>> redesign, and this is the first part of it.
>
> But it's not the right moment in the cycle to get a first part of a
> redesign in. I would prefer the whole redesign be set as a feature for
> 3.8.

I have to agree here. Lets hold this until 3.7
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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-13 Thread Gabor Kelemen 

2012-09-12 21:15 keltezéssel, Cosimo Cecchi írta:

Hi again,

I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in Nautilus:
- https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680983 - this is about
changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
"Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
in the UI.
- https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683752 - when an user
tries to open a file for which there are no applications available, we
show a message saying "There is no application installed for %s
files". The patch adds quotes around the %s, to ensure the file type
stands out from the rest of the string.


First one is important enough, so i18n approval 1/2.
The second alone wouldn't be, but since there is going to be a break 
anyways, why not.


Regards
Gabor Kelemen

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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-13 Thread Cosimo Cecchi 
On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Matthias Clasen
 wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Frederic Peters  wrote:
>> Bastien Nocera wrote:
>>
>>> I've maintained nautilus-sendto for the past 7 years, and I'm happy with
>>> those changes. nautilus-sendto's UI has been in serious need for a
>>> redesign, and this is the first part of it.
>>
>> But it's not the right moment in the cycle to get a first part of a
>> redesign in. I would prefer the whole redesign be set as a feature for
>> 3.8.
>
> I have to agree here. Lets hold this until 3.7

Okay, sounds good...thanks everyone for the feedback.

The string freeze break request still stands for the second bug report
I mentioned in my original mail.

Cosimo
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Re: Two string changes for Nautilus

2012-09-13 Thread Gil Forcada Codinachs 
I trust Gabor so 2/2 i18n approval.

Cheers,
On Sep 13, 2012 12:40 PM, "Gabor Kelemen"  wrote:

> 2012-09-12 21:15 keltezéssel, Cosimo Cecchi írta:
>
>> Hi again,
>>
>> I would like to ask a string freeze break request for two strings in
>> Nautilus:
>> - 
>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/**show_bug.cgi?id=680983-
>>  this is about
>> changing the "Send To..." string of the nautilus-sendto extension to
>> "Email...". nautilus-sendto used to offer a set of options other than
>> email, which are currently not really working correctly. In the bug
>> there's a patch to change the extension to open the email client
>> directly instead, and this should be mirrored in the string displayed
>> in the UI.
>> - 
>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/**show_bug.cgi?id=683752-
>>  when an user
>> tries to open a file for which there are no applications available, we
>> show a message saying "There is no application installed for %s
>> files". The patch adds quotes around the %s, to ensure the file type
>> stands out from the rest of the string.
>>
>>  First one is important enough, so i18n approval 1/2.
> The second alone wouldn't be, but since there is going to be a break
> anyways, why not.
>
> Regards
> Gabor Kelemen
>
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