Request to bump Qt version requirements to 4.6.3 for KDE SC 4.5 (and above)
Hello From what I understand, Plasma in KDE4 Workspace 4.5 relies on notifications provided by libdbusmenu-qt to control what to draw in system tray. And apparently Qt = Qt-4.6.2 contains known bug that causes 'close application' notifications not to be delivered - as a result causing system tray regressions - application icons not disappearing. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232915 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195998 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=241248 and similar reports. Because it's quite visually exposed and obvious bug (confirmed to be solved with mentioned Qt upgrade), I propose bumping Qt requirements to 4.6.3 for 4.5 branch and trunk for whole KDE SC release (currently it requires Qt 4.6.0). -- regards MM ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Request to bump Qt version requirements to 4.6.3 for KDE SC 4.5 (and above)
On 08.07.10 17:36:09, Maciej Mrozowski wrote: Hello From what I understand, Plasma in KDE4 Workspace 4.5 relies on notifications provided by libdbusmenu-qt to control what to draw in system tray. And apparently Qt = Qt-4.6.2 contains known bug that causes 'close application' notifications not to be delivered - as a result causing system tray regressions - application icons not disappearing. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232915 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195998 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=241248 and similar reports. Because it's quite visually exposed and obvious bug (confirmed to be solved with mentioned Qt upgrade), I propose bumping Qt requirements to 4.6.3 for 4.5 branch and trunk for whole KDE SC release (currently it requires Qt 4.6.0). This has already been discussed and as a compile-time requirement doesn't make a runtime-requirement its been dis-approved (in fact this exact bump was made, discussed afterwards and reverted again (see r1135987 and r1136437 in kdelibs). IIRC the discussion was on kde-core-devel. Andreas -- You will wish you hadn't. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Request to bump Qt version requirements to 4.6.3 for KDE SC 4.5 (and above)
On Thursday 08 of July 2010 17:51:31 Andreas Pakulat wrote: On 08.07.10 17:36:09, Maciej Mrozowski wrote: Hello From what I understand, Plasma in KDE4 Workspace 4.5 relies on notifications provided by libdbusmenu-qt to control what to draw in system tray. And apparently Qt = Qt-4.6.2 contains known bug that causes 'close application' notifications not to be delivered - as a result causing system tray regressions - application icons not disappearing. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232915 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195998 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=241248 and similar reports. Because it's quite visually exposed and obvious bug (confirmed to be solved with mentioned Qt upgrade), I propose bumping Qt requirements to 4.6.3 for 4.5 branch and trunk for whole KDE SC release (currently it requires Qt 4.6.0). This has already been discussed and as a compile-time requirement doesn't make a runtime-requirement its been dis-approved (in fact this exact bump was made, discussed afterwards and reverted again (see r1135987 and r1136437 in kdelibs). IIRC the discussion was on kde-core-devel. Fair enough. Bug wranglers at bugs.kde.org won't appreciate such explanation though: Revert r1135987: the build-time dependency should only be a minor release of Qt (4.6) not a patch-level release (4.6.3). Qt maintains forward and backward binary compatibility within minor releases, so the patch-level releases are completely interchangable at runtime. People should aim to use the latest patch-level release anyway in order to get bugfixes. The question is: who cares whether Qt minor releases are interchangeable or not so that we can just specify minimal required dependencies to ensure only that stuff compiles? the build-time dependency should only be a minor release of Qt - is this policy written anywhere? Why is it more important that code compiles than providing better user experience? I think it's fundamental question. If one of goals of KDE community is striving to provide the best user experience by any means necessary and if bumping version of dependencies is guaranteed to help here for many users compiling KDE from source and actually giving a hint for packagers, maybe it should be doneTM. Also, as a potential bug reporter, I couldn't really accept such bug reports being RESOLVED (doesn't matter whether UPSTREAM or WONTFIX), because what it actually means is dontcaregoaway. Such bugs reports are valid because they're filled against properly built package (with respect to its build dependencies). It helps alienating community. cheers -- regards MM ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Request to bump Qt version requirements to 4.6.3 for KDE SC 4.5 (and above)
On Thursday 08 of July 2010 19:28:01 Thiago Macieira wrote: On Thursday 8. July 2010 18.42.36 Maciej Mrozowski wrote: The question is: who cares whether Qt minor releases are interchangeable or not so that we can just specify minimal required dependencies to ensure only that stuff compiles? the build-time dependency should only be a minor release of Qt - is this policy written anywhere? Why is it more important that code compiles than providing better user experience? I think it's fundamental question. The build-time requirement doesn't influence the run-time requirement of Qt. You can compile against 4.6.3 and then run against 4.6.0. So requiring 4.6.3 to compile will NOT get your bug solved. I disagree but let me explain. Someone fetches KDE tarballs. Tries to build them - then encounters build error stating that Qt dependencies are not met. Person in question upgrades Qt, then builds KDE and problem has been solved by avoiding it. If person in question is distro packager, he does the same, but he also ensures that runtime dependencies of packages he's preparing are matching build time dependencies. So problem has been avoided as well (note that KDE SC 4.5.0 is not out yet and number of bug reported already is significant). If said person purposely hacks buildsystem to allow older Qt version - he should be ready to grab the pieces. The only case when bug is not solved. You need to convince your distro to upgrade. And all KDE has to do is to say that distros should upgrade. And that should go without saying that distros should always upgrade. And they do. So what are you complaining about? Bug reported - ceck Bug fixed - check Distros upgrading - check Right. But those users who will go through this exact same procedure over and over AGAIN. Because: - they weren't told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard (why would they? they just grab packages and build from source against whatever Qt version they happen to have) or - packager who prepared packages for them was not told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard. So the only reliable way for them to find out is to personally experience bug, fill it (or seach bugzilla first), then be told to go away and complain elsewhere (usually distro). And all of this could have been avoided if dependencies were raised in first place. (and some people say it's distros that work like it compiles - release) Now, it's been enough noise already so most distro packagers are probably aware that current Qt dependencies for 4.5 are not what's supposed to be used actually, but there will always be people building from source manually. cheers -- Maciej Mrozowski Gentoo KDE release coordinator signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Request to bump Qt version requirements to 4.6.3 for KDE SC 4.5 (and above)
On 08.07.10 20:14:47, Maciej Mrozowski wrote: On Thursday 08 of July 2010 19:28:01 Thiago Macieira wrote: On Thursday 8. July 2010 18.42.36 Maciej Mrozowski wrote: The question is: who cares whether Qt minor releases are interchangeable or not so that we can just specify minimal required dependencies to ensure only that stuff compiles? the build-time dependency should only be a minor release of Qt - is this policy written anywhere? Why is it more important that code compiles than providing better user experience? I think it's fundamental question. The build-time requirement doesn't influence the run-time requirement of Qt. You can compile against 4.6.3 and then run against 4.6.0. So requiring 4.6.3 to compile will NOT get your bug solved. I disagree but let me explain. Someone fetches KDE tarballs. Tries to build them - then encounters build error stating that Qt dependencies are not met. Person in question upgrades Qt, then builds KDE and problem has been solved by avoiding it. If person in question is distro packager, he does the same, but he also ensures that runtime dependencies of packages he's preparing are matching build time dependencies. So problem has been avoided as well (note that KDE SC 4.5.0 is not out yet and number of bug reported already is significant). If said person purposely hacks buildsystem to allow older Qt version - he should be ready to grab the pieces. The only case when bug is not solved. And right-fully so, the packagers need to take care about this and upgrade their Qt packages. Thats their job and only theirs. Thats not KDE's business'. You need to convince your distro to upgrade. And all KDE has to do is to say that distros should upgrade. And that should go without saying that distros should always upgrade. And they do. So what are you complaining about? Bug reported - ceck Bug fixed - check Distros upgrading - check Right. But those users who will go through this exact same procedure over and over AGAIN. Because: - they weren't told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard (why would they? they just grab packages and build from source against whatever Qt version they happen to have) People building from sources are expected to be able to follow upstream updates for _everything_ they build themselves. $random_user doesn't build stuff from sources (except very few things), they use packages at which point packagers come into the game: or - packager who prepared packages for them was not told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard. Then he shouldn't be a packager. Packagers are _expected_ to follow the upstream of whatever they package and update the packages as soon as an update is released (at least for bugfix releases). If they're not able to do that they shouldn't create packages in the first place. So the only reliable way for them to find out is to personally experience bug, fill it (or seach bugzilla first), then be told to go away and complain elsewhere (usually distro). Uhm, packagers are distro-people in most of the cases. So in case they do ship KDE 4.5.x packages with Qt4.6.2 (or earlier) they'll get bugreports and rightfully so. At that point its their job to find out whats wrong, this may include filing a KDE bug and getting told this is an upstream problem, please report to Qt. And all of this could have been avoided if dependencies were raised in first place. The compile time dependency is nonsense, KDE 4.5.x doesn't _need_ 4.6.3 to compile, it needs 4.6.x (x=0). The problem is a pure _runtime_ problem and hence needs to be fixed at runtime. If KDE had a way of requiring a certain Qt version during runtime, that requirement should be changed. But changing a build-time requirement because of 1 bug that occurs during runtime is just plain wrong. (and some people say it's distros that work like it compiles - release) So? Thats broken distro's and broken packagers, we shouldn't need to care about people not taking their job seriously. Andreas -- Of course you have a purpose -- to find a purpose. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Request to bump Qt version requirements to 4.6.3 for KDE SC 4.5 (and above)
Hi, 2010/7/8 Maciej Mrozowski reave...@gmail.com On Thursday 08 of July 2010 19:28:01 Thiago Macieira wrote: On Thursday 8. July 2010 18.42.36 Maciej Mrozowski wrote: The question is: who cares whether Qt minor releases are interchangeable or not so that we can just specify minimal required dependencies to ensure only that stuff compiles? the build-time dependency should only be a minor release of Qt - is this policy written anywhere? Why is it more important that code compiles than providing better user experience? I think it's fundamental question. The build-time requirement doesn't influence the run-time requirement of Qt. You can compile against 4.6.3 and then run against 4.6.0. So requiring 4.6.3 to compile will NOT get your bug solved. I disagree but let me explain. Someone fetches KDE tarballs. Tries to build them - then encounters build error stating that Qt dependencies are not met. Person in question upgrades Qt, then builds KDE and problem has been solved by avoiding it. If person in question is distro packager, he does the same, but he also ensures that runtime dependencies of packages he's preparing are matching build time dependencies. Distro packager should know that he should upgrade to the latest version of Qt 4.6 to get the latest fixes... If said person purposely hacks buildsystem to allow older Qt version - he should be ready to grab the pieces. The only case when bug is not solved. You need to convince your distro to upgrade. And all KDE has to do is to say that distros should upgrade. And that should go without saying that distros should always upgrade. And they do. So what are you complaining about? Bug reported - ceck Bug fixed - check Distros upgrading - check Right. But those users who will go through this exact same procedure over and over AGAIN. Because: - they weren't told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard (why would they? they just grab packages and build from source against whatever Qt version they happen to have) I feel that these are quite specific users you're talking about. People not upgrading Qt and building their software themselves. I suppose that if they are in that specific combination they somehow know what they're doing -- no? or - packager who prepared packages for them was not told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard. ... because it's a Qt bug and the Qt packager should upgrade its package as he is following the changelogs of the software he packages -- no? So the only reliable way for them to find out is to personally experience bug, fill it (or seach bugzilla first), then be told to go away and complain elsewhere (usually distro). And all of this could have been avoided if dependencies were raised in first place. And some people don't care about bugs for system tray notifications, because they don't use them. Each new 4.6 version of Qt will fix bugs, should we make it mandatory to upgrade for anyone wanting to use KDE? I don't feel so. People who want fixed bugs upgrade. Others probably don't care, whatever the reason behind this might be (maybe just because they don't want to recompile everything just for something they're not using?). Compile-time is for compilation-related checks. (and some people say it's distros that work like it compiles - release) Now, it's been enough noise already so most distro packagers are probably aware that current Qt dependencies for 4.5 are not what's supposed to be used actually, but there will always be people building from source manually. And they probably (should) know what they're doing. cheers -- Maciej Mrozowski Gentoo KDE release coordinator Loïc Corbasson [loic.corbas...@gmail.com] ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
