Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
Hi! Since the suggested 24 hours have come and gone (without objections), the merge is now done, and you now need trunk Phonon to build the phonon part of kdebase-workspace. -- Martin Sandsmark Interim Phonon Maintainer :wq ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
Hi! Colin Guthrie has been working on better integration of PulseAudio in Phonon, but AFAIK it is now too late for getting it into 4.4, without getting and exemption from the freeze. But IMHO (and Eike Hein, who reminded me about this issue :-), distros will most probably just go ahead and patch in coling's work anyways, if it isn't available in KDE itself. The KDE-module in question is kdebase-runtime (and also Phonon itself, but that's another story). Another tiny snag is that it depends on an unreleased version of PulseAudio (because whoever packaged up the last PA release forgot to include coling's work), but I assume spring-release distros will have an up-to-date version, so if we just check for the right PA version while building, we should be OK. Mandriva's latest release already includes coling's work, so it has already received a fair amount of testing. So before you all start going around in circles screaming pulseaudio pt, if PA isn't available at build-time, all the PA-specific stuff becomes nops (and possibly completely optimized away? I don't have enough compiler-fu). And if Phonon is built with PA integration, but the PA daemon isn't available for some reason (it crashed, or isn't installed, for example), it degrades gracefully. I think this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, but if I'm wrong, please correct me. :-) Or ask. Or grant an exemption, if you find the kindness in your hearts to do so. -- Martin T. Sandsmark Interim Phonon Maintainer ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
Here are some blog posts on this work: http://colin.guthr.ie/2009/10/so-how-does-the-kde-pulseaudio-support-work-anyway/ http://colin.guthr.ie/2009/10/update-on-kdepulseaudio/ http://colin.guthr.ie/2009/10/kde-plus-pulseaudio-does-not-equal-sucks/ The ultra-condensed version is that it aligns the device lists and priorities/policies maintained separately by PulseAudio and Phonon, which right now can cause behavio- ral quirks between apps using one or the other, and also makes the the Multimedia KCM in System Settings basically useless. With this work, it becomes useful again. I think that merging this, rather than leaving distros to do so on their own, would go a long way toward delivering a spring round of distros based on 4.4 that take a lot of the current out of the box pain with sound away. Our two bix ootb experience problems over the last year have been network management and sound, both of which come down to playing nice with services that, like it or not, are part of the stack in many of our biggest distros right now - NetworkManager and PulseAudio. Network management has come together, so let's fix sound now. With Mandriva having shipped this in 10.0, we should have quite some accumulated real-world experience with it by February to ensure things are stable. I'm hoping for an exemption + merge. Let's nip the bah KDE sucks, I can't get sound to work, but on $other_desktop it works problem in the bud as soon as we can :). -- Best regards, Eike Hein ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
Op Wednesday 18 November 2009 18:10 schreef u: Hi! Colin Guthrie has been working on better integration of PulseAudio in Phonon, but AFAIK it is now too late for getting it into 4.4, without getting and exemption from the freeze. But IMHO (and Eike Hein, who reminded me about this issue :-), distros will most probably just go ahead and patch in coling's work anyways, if it isn't available in KDE itself. The KDE-module in question is kdebase-runtime (and also Phonon itself, but that's another story). Another tiny snag is that it depends on an unreleased version of PulseAudio (because whoever packaged up the last PA release forgot to include coling's work), but I assume spring-release distros will have an up-to-date version, so if we just check for the right PA version while building, we should be OK. Mandriva's latest release already includes coling's work, so it has already received a fair amount of testing. So before you all start going around in circles screaming pulseaudio pt, if PA isn't available at build-time, all the PA-specific stuff becomes nops (and possibly completely optimized away? I don't have enough compiler-fu). And if Phonon is built with PA integration, but the PA daemon isn't available for some reason (it crashed, or isn't installed, for example), it degrades gracefully. I think this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, but if I'm wrong, please correct me. :-) Or ask. Or grant an exemption, if you find the kindness in your hearts to do so. A link to the patches would have been nice ;-) If there are good, working and tested cmake and ifdefs, I suggest we include it now, ship it in the beta and possibily in the first release candidate. If we get complains or unsolvable issues we can remove it for the final release if needed. Please wait 24h for other opinions, if noone objects or raises possible issues, please merge it in asap, so we can at least have some basic testing before we package the beta. Toma -- KDE Developer___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
On 11/18/2009 11:41 AM, Tom Albers wrote: Op Wednesday 18 November 2009 18:10 schreef u: Colin Guthrie has been working on better integration of PulseAudio in Phonon, but AFAIK it is now too late for getting it into 4.4, without getting and exemption from the freeze. ... If there are good, working and tested cmake and ifdefs, I suggest we include it now, ship it in the beta and possibily in the first release candidate. If we get complains or unsolvable issues we can remove it for the final release if needed. Please wait 24h for other opinions, if noone objects or raises possible issues, please merge it in asap, so we can at least have some basic testing before we package the beta. Admittedly with my distro-packager hat firmly on, I whole-heartedly support efforts to merge asap and getting things tested in beta. -- Rex ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
On Wednesday 18 November 2009 18:41:36 Tom Albers wrote: Op Wednesday 18 November 2009 18:10 schreef u: Hi! Colin Guthrie has been working on better integration of PulseAudio in Phonon, but AFAIK it is now too late for getting it into 4.4, without getting and exemption from the freeze. But IMHO (and Eike Hein, who reminded me about this issue :-), distros will most probably just go ahead and patch in coling's work anyways, if it isn't available in KDE itself. The KDE-module in question is kdebase-runtime (and also Phonon itself, but that's another story). Another tiny snag is that it depends on an unreleased version of PulseAudio (because whoever packaged up the last PA release forgot to include coling's work), but I assume spring-release distros will have an up-to-date version, so if we just check for the right PA version while building, we should be OK. Mandriva's latest release already includes coling's work, so it has already received a fair amount of testing. So before you all start going around in circles screaming pulseaudio pt, if PA isn't available at build-time, all the PA-specific stuff becomes nops (and possibly completely optimized away? I don't have enough compiler-fu). And if Phonon is built with PA integration, but the PA daemon isn't available for some reason (it crashed, or isn't installed, for example), it degrades gracefully. I think this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, but if I'm wrong, please correct me. :-) Or ask. Or grant an exemption, if you find the kindness in your hearts to do so. A link to the patches would have been nice ;-) If there are good, working and tested cmake and ifdefs, I suggest we include it now, ship it in the beta and possibily in the first release candidate. If we get complains or unsolvable issues we can remove it for the final release if needed. Please wait 24h for other opinions, if noone objects or raises possible issues, please merge it in asap, so we can at least have some basic testing before we package the beta. Good suggestion. +1 -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
On Wednesday 18 November 2009 12:10:20 Martin Sandsmark wrote: Hi! Colin Guthrie has been working on better integration of PulseAudio in Phonon, but AFAIK it is now too late for getting it into 4.4, without getting and exemption from the freeze. But IMHO (and Eike Hein, who reminded me about this issue :-), distros will most probably just go ahead and patch in coling's work anyways, if it isn't available in KDE itself. The KDE-module in question is kdebase-runtime (and also Phonon itself, but that's another story). Another tiny snag is that it depends on an unreleased version of PulseAudio (because whoever packaged up the last PA release forgot to include coling's work), but I assume spring-release distros will have an up-to-date version, so if we just check for the right PA version while building, we should be OK. Mandriva's latest release already includes coling's work, so it has already received a fair amount of testing. So before you all start going around in circles screaming pulseaudio pt, if PA isn't available at build-time, all the PA-specific stuff becomes nops (and possibly completely optimized away? I don't have enough compiler-fu). And if Phonon is built with PA integration, but the PA daemon isn't available for some reason (it crashed, or isn't installed, for example), it degrades gracefully. I think this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, but if I'm wrong, please correct me. :-) Or ask. Or grant an exemption, if you find the kindness in your hearts to do so. Do what ever needs to be done on the KDE side as you see fit. Good working audio is critical. But be as gentle as you can. -Allen ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
Yo, 'Twas brillig, and Tom Albers at 18/11/09 17:41 did gyre and gimble: So before you all start going around in circles screaming pulseaudio pt, if PA isn't available at build-time, all the PA-specific stuff becomes nops (and possibly completely optimized away? I don't have enough compiler-fu). It wont be totally compiled away at build if PA isn't there (due to not wanting #ifdefs everywhere), but (and I think this is what you mean) the function calls that are left are noops or return false's and the like which the compiler is hopefully smart enough to just skip. :) And if Phonon is built with PA integration, but the PA daemon isn't available for some reason (it crashed, or isn't installed, for example), it degrades gracefully. Yup, basically I try a connection at startup, if it fails I just degrade to the same mode as if PA is not there at all. One thing I don't do just now (but am sorely tempted to add) is hide the PA plugins detected by the backends when PA is not in use... afterall there is little point in letting the user see and select these if PA isn't detected! Just another broken configure path. I think this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, but if I'm wrong, please correct me. :-) Sounded like gospel to me :p A link to the patches would have been nice ;-) Hehe, yeah: All my work is in git repos here: http://colin.guthr.ie/git/ (usually in a branch labelled pulse Phonon Specific changes: http://colin.guthr.ie/git/phonon/log/?h=pulse (any commit with my full name is new - it changes to cguthrie when committed to SVN). KDE Base Runtime stuff here: http://colin.guthr.ie/git/runtime/log/?h=pulse Not as much in the latter. It's based off 4.3 tree but should be trivial to rebase it on trunk before I commit. If you just want a handy diff of all the changes in one place: http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/packages/cooker/phonon/current/SOURCES/phonon-4.3-pulseaudio.patch?view=markup and http://svn.mandriva.com/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/packages/cooker/kdebase4-runtime/current/SOURCES/kdebase-runtime-4.3.1-backend-globalconfig.patch?view=markup HTHs Col -- Colin Guthrie cguthrie(at)mandriva.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/] Open Source: Mandriva Linux Contributor [http://www.mandriva.com/] PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/] Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/] ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Freeze exemption for PA integration into Phonon
On Wednesday 18 November 2009 18:29:19 Sebastian Kügler wrote: On Wednesday 18 November 2009 18:41:36 Tom Albers wrote: Op Wednesday 18 November 2009 18:10 schreef u: Hi! Colin Guthrie has been working on better integration of PulseAudio in Phonon, but AFAIK it is now too late for getting it into 4.4, without getting and exemption from the freeze. But IMHO (and Eike Hein, who reminded me about this issue :-), distros will most probably just go ahead and patch in coling's work anyways, if it isn't available in KDE itself. The KDE-module in question is kdebase-runtime (and also Phonon itself, but that's another story). Another tiny snag is that it depends on an unreleased version of PulseAudio (because whoever packaged up the last PA release forgot to include coling's work), but I assume spring-release distros will have an up-to-date version, so if we just check for the right PA version while building, we should be OK. Mandriva's latest release already includes coling's work, so it has already received a fair amount of testing. So before you all start going around in circles screaming pulseaudio pt, if PA isn't available at build-time, all the PA-specific stuff becomes nops (and possibly completely optimized away? I don't have enough compiler-fu). And if Phonon is built with PA integration, but the PA daemon isn't available for some reason (it crashed, or isn't installed, for example), it degrades gracefully. I think this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, but if I'm wrong, please correct me. :-) Or ask. Or grant an exemption, if you find the kindness in your hearts to do so. A link to the patches would have been nice ;-) If there are good, working and tested cmake and ifdefs, I suggest we include it now, ship it in the beta and possibily in the first release candidate. If we get complains or unsolvable issues we can remove it for the final release if needed. Please wait 24h for other opinions, if noone objects or raises possible issues, please merge it in asap, so we can at least have some basic testing before we package the beta. Good suggestion. +1 Colin work have my 100% approval. I was there in the integration in Mandriva. I would say go. -- Helio Chissini de Castro South America and Brazil Primary Contact KDE Developer since 2002 ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
