RE: May American court appoint only Muslim arbitrators, pursuant to anarbitration agreement?
What if the dispute involved a matter of religious law or control of a religious entity or a dispute between a parochial school and a faculty member ? SAMUEL M. KRIEGER -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Jamar Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 11:46 AM To: hamilto...@aol.com; Law Religion issues for Law Academics Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: May American court appoint only Muslim arbitrators, pursuant to anarbitration agreement? What if it said apply Brazilian law and appoint only lawyers admitted to practice in brazil? Sent from Steve Jamar's iPhone On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:08 AM, hamilto...@aol.com wrote: What if the agreement said African Americans or women only? Marci Marci A. Hamilton Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law Yeshiva University Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Volokh, Eugene vol...@law.ucla.edu Sender: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 07:06:03 To: Law Religion issues for Law Academicsreligionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Reply-To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Subject: May American court appoint only Muslim arbitrators, pursuant to an arbitration agreement? ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: May American court appoint only Muslim arbitrators, pursuant to an arbitration agreement?
While I am not an academic (just a practicing lawyer in New York), I understand there will be a panel at the forthcoming AALS meeting on the Beis Din (rabbinic Arbitration). There is a long line of cases in NY on Beis Din issues ranging from panel selection, panel composition to enforcement of judgments. SAMUEL M. KRIEGER -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of verizon Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 2:00 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: May American court appoint only Muslim arbitrators, pursuant to an arbitration agreement? I use a contract clause to arbitrate using a Christian arbitration service. The clause spells out the service much like one would specify AAA to arbitrate. The clause does not give requirements for the arbitrators, just what organization will arbitrate. The reasoning is that the Bible tells Christians not to take their cases to secular courts. Does that make a difference? I was on a christian arbitration panel about 10 years ago. Alan Law Office of Alan Leigh Armstrong 18652 Florida St., Suite 225 Huntington Beach CA 92648-6006 714 375 1147 fax 714 782 6007 a...@alanarmstrong.com Serving the family and small business since 1984 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: NY Religious Corporations Law
Will - While not wishing to prolong this, thread, that exactly is my point - Section 200 of the RCL has an exception for decisions in the province of a spiritual officer while there is no such carve out under the NPCL. Arguably, a board of directors ( or a court) of a congregation incorporated under the NPCL may therefor override decisions of the spiritual officer. SAMUEL M. KRIEGER,ESQ. Krieger Prager LLP 39 Broadway, Suite 920 New York, NY 10006 . - Original Message - From: Will Linden wlin...@panix.com To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:42 PM Subject: Re: NY Religious Corporations Law In a message dated 03/11/09 15:55:44 Central Daylight Time, smkrie...@verizon.net writes: Marc and Marci - If a congregation registers under the Not for Profit Corporation law , does that thereby allow ecclesiastical decisions to be subject to approval by lay governance or review by the courts? Are we elevating form over substance?? Can the lay board of directors direct that the Rabbi of an Orthodox Jewish congregation allow a female cantor to officiate or that he hold Sabbath sevices on Sunday ?? I would submit not - Davis v Scher , 97 N.W.2d 137, 356 Mich. 291 (1959). What happens if on the other hand the Rabbi wamts to introduce these practices over board or membership opposition.? see,. Katz v Singerman 241 La. 103, 127 So.2d 515. (1960). And in any case, the rabbi is a spiritual officer. Will Linden wlin...@panix.com http://www.ecben.net/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A- a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: NY Religious Corporations Law
I recognize that by black letter law, a church is exempt. However for a church to secure an actual letter of recognition of exemption from the IRS , I have always believed there was a requirement to submit a Certificate of Incorporation (and By Laws), Trust agreement , Constitution or similar document- Additionally, the document must contain certain required clause, - no private innurment, disposition of assets upon dissolution. These documents are not necessarily utilized by Unincorporated Associations . In the absence of an IRS recognition letter, the burden in an audit is on the taxpayer to prove the entity is exempt See Generally IRS Publication 557. SAMUEL M. KRIEGER,ESQ. Krieger Prager LLP 39 Broadway, Suite 920 New York, NY 10006 - Original Message - From: Lawyer2974 To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:22 AM Subject: Re: NY Religious Corporations Law Why would being an unincorporated association have any effect on tax status of a church? In a message dated 03/11/09 15:55:44 Central Daylight Time, smkrie...@verizon.net writes: Marc and Marci - If a congregation registers under the Not for Profit Corporation law , does that thereby allow ecclesiastical decisions to be subject to approval by lay governance or review by the courts? Are we elevating form over substance?? Can the lay board of directors direct that the Rabbi of an Orthodox Jewish congregation allow a female cantor to officiate or that he hold Sabbath sevices on Sunday ?? I would submit not -Davis v Scher , 97 N.W.2d 137, 356 Mich. 291 (1959). What happens if on the other hand the Rabbi wamts to introduce these practices over board or membership opposition.? see,. Katz v Singerman 241 La. 103, 127 So.2d 515. (1960). Two additional notes- 1.Many of the cases in this area have courts straining to find a property interest and thereby granting jurisdiction to a secular court ... See PARK SLOPE JEWISH CENTER, ,v.CONGREGATION B'NAI JACOB, 90 NY2d 517, 686 N.E.2d 1330 (1997) . (fascinating procedural history) 2. Retaining unincorporated status may result in making the benefits of IRC Section 501 (c) (3) unavailable to the congregation. SAMUEL M. KRIEGER,ESQ. Krieger Prager LLP 39 Broadway, Suite 920 New York, NY 10006 Tel: (212) 363-2900 Fax: (212) 363-2999 - Original Message - From: Douglas Laycock To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: NY Religious Corporations Law So that's the escape route. Makes sense that there had to be one. Quoting Marc Stern mst...@ajcongress.org: In New York, a religious institution is generally permitted to register under the secular not for profit corporation law. From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Friedman, Howard M. Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:54 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: Connecticut bill To the extent that the entire NY Religious Corporations Law is mandatory, as opposed to merely default provisions that apply in the absence of contrary rules in the organization's charter or bylaws, I think there are serious constitutional issues with very many of the internal governance provisions. * Howard M. Friedman Disting. Univ. Professor Emeritus University of Toledo College of Law Toledo, OH 43606-3390 Phone: (419) 530-2911, FAX (419) 530-4732 E-mail: howard.fried...@utoledo.edu * From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of SAMUEL M. KRIEGER Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:11 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Connecticut bill Just for the sake of perspective on the proposed Connecticut legislation, I would welcome any comments on Section 200 of the New York Religious Corporations Law (codified in Article 10 applicable to Other Denominations - including Jewish Congregations ) compared to sub- sections (e) and (h) of the proposed Connecticut legislation. -- § 200. Control of trustees by corporate meetings; salaries of ministers. A corporate meeting of an incorporated church, whose trustees are elective as such, may give directions, not inconsistent
Re: Connecticut bill
Just for the sake of perspective on the proposed Connecticut legislation, I would welcome any comments on Section 200 of the New York Religious Corporations Law (codified in Article 10 applicable to Other Denominations - including Jewish Congregations ) compared to sub- sections (e) and (h) of the proposed Connecticut legislation. -- § 200. Control of trustees by corporate meetings; salaries of ministers. A corporate meeting of an incorporated church, whose trustees are elective as such, may give directions, not inconsistent with law, as to the manner in which any of the temporal affairs of the church shall be administered by the trustees thereof; and such directions shall be followed by the trustees. The trustees of an incorporated church to which this article is applicable, shall have no power to settle or remove or fix the salary of the minister, or without the consent of a corporate meeting, to incur debts beyond what is necessary for the care of the property of the corporation; or to fix or charge the time, nature or order of the public or social worship of such church, except when such trustees are also the spiritual officers of such church. (emphasis supplied) The provison has been in NY law in some form since 1813 and was last amended in 1909 . SAMUEL M. KRIEGER,ESQ. Krieger Prager LLP 39 Broadway New York, NY 10006 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: NY Religious Corporations Law
Marc and Marci - If a congregation registers under the Not for Profit Corporation law , does that thereby allow ecclesiastical decisions to be subject to approval by lay governance or review by the courts? Are we elevating form over substance?? Can the lay board of directors direct that the Rabbi of an Orthodox Jewish congregation allow a female cantor to officiate or that he hold Sabbath sevices on Sunday ?? I would submit not -Davis v Scher , 97 N.W.2d 137, 356 Mich. 291 (1959). What happens if on the other hand the Rabbi wamts to introduce these practices over board or membership opposition.? see,. Katz v Singerman 241 La. 103, 127 So.2d 515. (1960). Two additional notes- 1.Many of the cases in this area have courts straining to find a property interest and thereby granting jurisdiction to a secular court . See PARK SLOPE JEWISH CENTER, ,v.CONGREGATION B'NAI JACOB, 90 NY2d 517, 686 N.E.2d 1330 (1997) . (fascinating procedural history) 2. Retaining unincorporated status may result in making the benefits of IRC Section 501 (c) (3) unavailable to the congregation. SAMUEL M. KRIEGER,ESQ. Krieger Prager LLP 39 Broadway, Suite 920 New York, NY 10006 Tel: (212) 363-2900 Fax: (212) 363-2999 - Original Message - From: Douglas Laycock To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: NY Religious Corporations Law So that's the escape route. Makes sense that there had to be one. Quoting Marc Stern mst...@ajcongress.org: In New York, a religious institution is generally permitted to register under the secular not for profit corporation law. From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Friedman, Howard M. Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:54 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: Connecticut bill To the extent that the entire NY Religious Corporations Law is mandatory, as opposed to merely default provisions that apply in the absence of contrary rules in the organization's charter or bylaws, I think there are serious constitutional issues with very many of the internal governance provisions. * Howard M. Friedman Disting. Univ. Professor Emeritus University of Toledo College of Law Toledo, OH 43606-3390 Phone: (419) 530-2911, FAX (419) 530-4732 E-mail: howard.fried...@utoledo.edu * From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of SAMUEL M. KRIEGER Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:11 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Connecticut bill Just for the sake of perspective on the proposed Connecticut legislation, I would welcome any comments on Section 200 of the New York Religious Corporations Law (codified in Article 10 applicable to Other Denominations - including Jewish Congregations ) compared to sub- sections (e) and (h) of the proposed Connecticut legislation. -- § 200. Control of trustees by corporate meetings; salaries of ministers. A corporate meeting of an incorporated church, whose trustees are elective as such, may give directions, not inconsistent with law, as to the manner in which any of the temporal affairs of the church shall be administered by the trustees thereof; and such directions shall be followed by the trustees. The trustees of an incorporated church to which this article is applicable, shall have no power to settle or remove or fix the salary of the minister, or without the consent of a corporate meeting, to incur debts beyond what is necessary for the care of the property of the corporation; or to fix or charge the time, nature or order of the public or social worship of such church, except when such trustees are also the spiritual officers of such church. (emphasis supplied) The provison has been in NY law in some form since 1813 and was last amended in 1909 . SAMUEL M. KRIEGER,ESQ. Krieger Prager LLP 39 Broadway New York, NY 10006 Douglas Laycock Yale Kamisar Collegiate Professor of Law University of Michigan Law School 625 S. State St. Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1215 734-647-9713 -- ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please
