RE: Religious history school projects
It is a matter of some controversy in the circuits if the sorts of exemptions you describe would create an individualized exemption. The Third Circuit seems to hold that they would (Fraternal Order of Police v Newark) but other circuits have been openly critical of that decision. In the Newark case, the secular exemption for beards was a health exemption. Marc Stern -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick Duncan Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:41 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: Religious history school projects One possibility for a free exercise opt-out from a mandatory field trip to a religious site (or perhaps to a particular class assignment) is to check to see if the school has an individualized process for exemptions. For example, if the school allows students to miss a field trip if they are sick, or to attend the funeral or wedding of a close relative, it must grant a religious exemption or pass strict scrutiny under Sherbert (as Sherbert was transfigured in Smith and Lukumi). For a very good 10th circuit opinion in support of this result, see the Axson-Flynn case (the case about the girl who refused to curse God when ordered to do so by her acting class professor). Cheers, Rick Duncan --- AJCONGRESS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > See Leebart v.Harrington,327 F33d 134(2d Cir > 2003);Altman V. Bedford CSD, > 245 F3d 49(2d Cir. 2001);Skoros v. City of NY (EDNY > 2004);Brown v. Hot, Sexy > and Safe, 68 F.3d 525(1st Cir 1995).To these should > be added the long list > of cases rejecting parental objections to particular > textbooks and assigned > readings. > Marc Stern > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf > Of Marty Lederman > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:50 PM > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > Subject: Re: Religious history school projects > > See generally Kent Greenawalt, Teaching About > Religion in the Public > Schools, 18 J.L. & Pol. 329 (2003); Jay D. Wexler, > Preparing for the Clothed > Public Square: Teaching About Religion, Civic > Education, and the > Constitution, 43 Wm. & Mary L. Rev. 1159 (2002). > - Original Message - > From: Will Linden <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM > Subject: Religious history school projects > > On another list, folk were bitching about reported > attempts to > "indoctrinate students in Islam". Another > contributor wrote about a > fourth-grade class which had an assignment to "make > a model of a babylonian > ziggurat...accurate down to the the altar and > accutrements used to worship > the Babylonian gods...including human sacrifice, > etc... The teacher failed > him on the project when he refused to do it because > the material "scared > him." When the mother asked if the child could be > allowed to do some other > project, the teacher refused, and assigned the child > a zero." > >This is, of course, "anecdotal". However, it drew > yet another post noting > that "In California the 4th graders have to do a > California Missions > project, and often they go on a field trip to see a > Mission. I have never > heard of anyone of refusing to build a Mission > project on religious grounds. > Since the Missions, like the Ziggurats, are part of > the history curriculum, > it would be an interesting question." I agree that > it would, and herewith > ask opinions of the list on whether the "Mission" > unit raises First > Amendment issues. (And yes, I have permission to > cite it here.) > > _ > > ___ > To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get > password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > ___ > To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get > password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > = Rick Duncan Welpton Professor of Law University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE 68583-0902 "When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
RE: Religious history school projects
One possibility for a free exercise opt-out from a mandatory field trip to a religious site (or perhaps to a particular class assignment) is to check to see if the school has an individualized process for exemptions. For example, if the school allows students to miss a field trip if they are sick, or to attend the funeral or wedding of a close relative, it must grant a religious exemption or pass strict scrutiny under Sherbert (as Sherbert was transfigured in Smith and Lukumi). For a very good 10th circuit opinion in support of this result, see the Axson-Flynn case (the case about the girl who refused to curse God when ordered to do so by her acting class professor). Cheers, Rick Duncan --- AJCONGRESS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > See Leebart v.Harrington,327 F33d 134(2d Cir > 2003);Altman V. Bedford CSD, > 245 F3d 49(2d Cir. 2001);Skoros v. City of NY (EDNY > 2004);Brown v. Hot, Sexy > and Safe, 68 F.3d 525(1st Cir 1995).To these should > be added the long list > of cases rejecting parental objections to particular > textbooks and assigned > readings. > Marc Stern > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf > Of Marty Lederman > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:50 PM > To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > Subject: Re: Religious history school projects > > See generally Kent Greenawalt, Teaching About > Religion in the Public > Schools, 18 J.L. & Pol. 329 (2003); Jay D. Wexler, > Preparing for the Clothed > Public Square: Teaching About Religion, Civic > Education, and the > Constitution, 43 Wm. & Mary L. Rev. 1159 (2002). > - Original Message - > From: Will Linden <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM > Subject: Religious history school projects > > On another list, folk were bitching about reported > attempts to > "indoctrinate students in Islam". Another > contributor wrote about a > fourth-grade class which had an assignment to "make > a model of a babylonian > ziggurat...accurate down to the the altar and > accutrements used to worship > the Babylonian gods...including human sacrifice, > etc... The teacher failed > him on the project when he refused to do it because > the material "scared > him." When the mother asked if the child could be > allowed to do some other > project, the teacher refused, and assigned the child > a zero." > >This is, of course, "anecdotal". However, it drew > yet another post noting > that "In California the 4th graders have to do a > California Missions > project, and often they go on a field trip to see a > Mission. I have never > heard of anyone of refusing to build a Mission > project on religious grounds. > Since the Missions, like the Ziggurats, are part of > the history curriculum, > it would be an interesting question." I agree that > it would, and herewith > ask opinions of the list on whether the "Mission" > unit raises First > Amendment issues. (And yes, I have permission to > cite it here.) > > _ > > ___ > To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get > password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > ___ > To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get > password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > = Rick Duncan Welpton Professor of Law University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE 68583-0902 "When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
RE: Religious history school projects
See Leebart v.Harrington,327 F33d 134(2d Cir 2003);Altman V. Bedford CSD, 245 F3d 49(2d Cir. 2001);Skoros v. City of NY (EDNY 2004);Brown v. Hot, Sexy and Safe, 68 F.3d 525(1st Cir 1995).To these should be added the long list of cases rejecting parental objections to particular textbooks and assigned readings. Marc Stern -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Marty Lederman Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:50 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Religious history school projects See generally Kent Greenawalt, Teaching About Religion in the Public Schools, 18 J.L. & Pol. 329 (2003); Jay D. Wexler, Preparing for the Clothed Public Square: Teaching About Religion, Civic Education, and the Constitution, 43 Wm. & Mary L. Rev. 1159 (2002). - Original Message - From: Will Linden To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Religious history school projects On another list, folk were bitching about reported attempts to "indoctrinate students in Islam". Another contributor wrote about a fourth-grade class which had an assignment to "make a model of a babylonian ziggurat...accurate down to the the altar and accutrements used to worship the Babylonian gods...including human sacrifice, etc... The teacher failed him on the project when he refused to do it because the material "scared him." When the mother asked if the child could be allowed to do some other project, the teacher refused, and assigned the child a zero." This is, of course, "anecdotal". However, it drew yet another post noting that "In California the 4th graders have to do a California Missions project, and often they go on a field trip to see a Mission. I have never heard of anyone of refusing to build a Mission project on religious grounds. Since the Missions, like the Ziggurats, are part of the history curriculum, it would be an interesting question." I agree that it would, and herewith ask opinions of the list on whether the "Mission" unit raises First Amendment issues. (And yes, I have permission to cite it here.) ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Re: Religious history school projects
See generally Kent Greenawalt, Teaching About Religion in the Public Schools, 18 J.L. & Pol. 329 (2003); Jay D. Wexler, Preparing for the Clothed Public Square: Teaching About Religion, Civic Education, and the Constitution, 43 Wm. & Mary L. Rev. 1159 (2002). - Original Message - From: Will Linden To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM Subject: Religious history school projects On another list, folk were bitching about reported attempts to "indoctrinate students in Islam". Another contributor wrote about a fourth-grade class which had an assignment to "make a model of a babylonian ziggurat...accurate down to the the altar and accutrements used to worship the Babylonian gods...including human sacrifice, etc... The teacher failed him on the project when he refused to do it because the material "scared him." When the mother asked if the child could be allowed to do some other project, the teacher refused, and assigned the child a zero." This is, of course, "anecdotal". However, it drew yet another post noting that "In California the 4th graders have to do a California Missions project, and often they go on a field trip to see a Mission. I have never heard of anyone of refusing to build a Mission project on religious grounds. Since the Missions, like the Ziggurats, are part of the history curriculum, it would be an interesting question." I agree that it would, and herewith ask opinions of the list on whether the "Mission" unit raises First Amendment issues. (And yes, I have permission to cite it here.) ___To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Re: Religious history school projects
The First Amendment issue would seem to turn on subjective intent here. Mission architecture, and the missions themselves are an important part of the history of California. So if the intention is to make students more aware of architecture and architectural influences of the missions on modern California, that is ok. Likewise for history. If the intent is to make students Catholic, or even generic Christian, that would be a violation. If the intent is to make students aware of particular religions, in this case Christian generally and Catholic specifically, then it seems a closer question. But given the legitimate motives, or at least the availability of them, I don't see much of a problem here in the abstract. But some teacher could certainly take it over the line. Like a creationist one of my sons had for social studies around 8th grade who defined religion in a way that excluded all but Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and marked other answers on the multiple guess question wrong. Any legitimate purpose for a good aim can be perverted. Steve On Thursday, March 11, 2004, at 03:49 PM, Will Linden wrote: However, it drew yet another post noting that "In California the 4th graders have to do a California Missions project, and often they go on a field trip to see a Mission. I have never heard of anyone of refusing to build a Mission project on religious grounds. Since the Missions, like the Ziggurats, are part of the history curriculum, it would be an interesting question." I agree that it would, and herewith ask opinions of the list on whether the "Mission" unit raises First Amendment issues. -- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8428 2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:19-21 ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Religious history school projects
On another list, folk were bitching about reported attempts to "indoctrinate students in Islam". Another contributor wrote about a fourth-grade class which had an assignment to "make a model of a babylonian ziggurat...accurate down to the the altar and accutrements used to worship the Babylonian gods...including human sacrifice, etc... The teacher failed him on the project when he refused to do it because the material "scared him." When the mother asked if the child could be allowed to do some other project, the teacher refused, and assigned the child a zero." This is, of course, "anecdotal". However, it drew yet another post noting that "In California the 4th graders have to do a California Missions project, and often they go on a field trip to see a Mission. I have never heard of anyone of refusing to build a Mission project on religious grounds. Since the Missions, like the Ziggurats, are part of the history curriculum, it would be an interesting question." I agree that it would, and herewith ask opinions of the list on whether the "Mission" unit raises First Amendment issues. (And yes, I have permission to cite it here.) ___ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
