Re: Stanford's "Warning" about Religion
But, leaving all else aside, not all "cults", or groups that operate in the way that Stanford describes, are religious. Stanford's implication that only groups identifying themselves as religious engage in the warned against conduct is simply wrong. Alan Brownstein UC Davis At 06:33 PM 4/14/2005 -0400, you wrote: With all due respect to those critical of Stanford on this issue, the problem of cults in California has been more pronounced than any other place in the country. Children are coming there, usually quite vulnerable, and what Stanford has said is not factually inaccurate. I did not read the warning so much as a criticism of all religion, but rather a warning about the dangers of some. Given what some religious entities have done to children in this country, I don't see that as inappropriate. Marci ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Stanford's "Warning" about Religion
With all due respect to those critical of Stanford on this issue, the problem of cults in California has been more pronounced than any other place in the country. Children are coming there, usually quite vulnerable, and what Stanford has said is not factually inaccurate. I did not read the warning so much as a criticism of all religion, but rather a warning about the dangers of some. Given what some religious entities have done to children in this country, I don't see that as inappropriate. Marci ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Stanford's "Warning" about Religion
Dear Rick: The Stanford warning was very interesting. You wonder if they shouldn't include a warning regarding certain fields on inquiry that tend to limit or distort students' worldviews. For example, certain academics are so dogmatic (e.g., some analytic philosophers, some Marxists, some scientists) that they attempt to dispose of all forms of thought that are inconsistent with their presuppositions. In other words, they attempt to indoctrinate their students rather than cultivate critical reflection. In some cases, religion and organized religion is viewed as one of the key targets of attack. I am not suggesting religion should be shielded from critical reflection. Vigorous intellectual debate should always be encouraged even about one's ultimate commitments. The problem is that many academics replace traditional religious convictions with other comprehensive convictions (e.g., materialism, humanism of some kind, hedonism, etc.) without knowing they are doing so. As David Tracy has so poignantly said, religion is the one subject most academics think they can be ignorant about. Has anyone warned the Stanford students about the potential ignorance about religion that may inform many of their professors' critiques of religion? Best wishes, Mark Mark Modak-Truran, J.D., Ph.D.Associate Professor of LawMississippi College School of Law151 East Griffith Street Jackson, MS 39201(601) 925-7159 [EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4/11/2005 1:33 PM >>> Dear all,In the course of looking into something having nothing to do with law-and-religion, I came across a web page, provided by Stanford University's Office for Religious Life, entitled "A Word of Warning." Here is a link:http://religiouslife.stanford.edu/sar/warning.htmlHere is the text: A Word of WarningMaintaining and nurturing your spiritual life during college and graduate school is one of the best ways to keep perspective on your studies and to avoid the isolation that is too often a part of scholarly pursuits. The Deans for Religious Life and members of SAR are committed to providing opportunities for spiritual growth, rewarding friendships and intellectual inquiry into matters of faith in a supportive environment.Unfortunately, not every religious group has your best interests at heart. Groups to avoid have some or all of the following characteristics. Pressure and Deception: They use high-pressure recruitment tactics or are not up-front about their motives when they first approach you. SAR members are required to identify themselves on all News and Publications and to be clear and forthright about their motives. Totalitarian Worldview: They do not encourage critical, independent thinking. The first goal of higher education is to enable you to think for yourself. Be aware of groups or leaders who try to control your life or who claim to possess the truth exclusively. Alienation: They want to choose your friends for you. While all religions have moral guidelines, watch out for groups that encourage you to sever ties with close friends and family who are not members. They are manipulative and extremely dangerous. Exploitation: They make unrealistic demands regarding your time and/or money. If participation in a group takes away from your study time, beware. A group or leader that cares about you understands that your studies-your future-are your first priority as a Stanford student. SAR members are strictly forbidden to require dues from student participants. If you feel you are being pursued aggressively or manipulated by a group or leader, contact any of the Deans for Religious Life or call 723-1762.* * *Now, it strikes me as reasonable and appropriate for a University like Stanford to provide (perhaps) paternalistic guidance to students on all sorts of matters involving their "personal" lives, including involvement with religious groups and activities. (I would hope that a University's willingness to provide "warning[s]" to students about the dangers posed by some religions to "critical, independent thinking" would indicate a willingness to warn about similar dangers posed by, say, political or identity-related groups). I imagine that reasonable people will disagree about what, exactly, "counts" as "claim[ing] to possess the truth exclusively" or "[dis]courag[ing] critical, independent thinking," but put that problem aside. I wonder, do any members of this list have any thoughts or views on how, if at all, the First Amendment would constrain the issuance by a state-run university of a "warning" like Stanford's? Or, approaching the matter from a broader, "religion and liberal democracy" perspective, what would we think about this "warning"?Best,Rick This message has been scanned by GWGuardian on GWGuardian.mc.edu and found to be virus free.
Re: Stanford's "Warning" about Religion
In connection with Rick's question, you might want to look around your campus for posters/signs with headlines like "Stop Psychiatric Abuse," and for tables with banners like "Stress Management" or "Stress Reduction." Also, this story -- Andy Newman, "Bumping Up Against Subway Regulations, New York Times, March 29, 2005 -- may be instructive. (Of course, I may be particularly sensitive to this sort of thing because I teach at an institution that obviously has a pastoral mission with respect to its students.) Rick Garnett wrote: Dear all, In the course of looking into something having nothing to do with law-and-religion, I came across a web page, provided by Stanford University's Office for Religious Life, entitled "A Word of Warning." Here is a link: http://religiouslife.stanford.edu/sar/warning.html Here is the text: A Word of Warning Maintaining and nurturing your spiritual life during college and graduate school is one of the best ways to keep perspective on your studies and to avoid the isolation that is too often a part of scholarly pursuits. The Deans for Religious Life and members of SAR are committed to providing opportunities for spiritual growth, rewarding friendships and intellectual inquiry into matters of faith in a supportive environment. Unfortunately, not every religious group has your best interests at heart. Groups to avoid have some or all of the following characteristics. Pressure and Deception: They use high-pressure recruitment tactics or are not up-front about their motives when they first approach you. SAR members are required to identify themselves on all News and Publications and to be clear and forthright about their motives. Totalitarian Worldview: They do not encourage critical, independent thinking. The first goal of higher education is to enable you to think for yourself. Be aware of groups or leaders who try to control your life or who claim to possess the truth exclusively. Alienation: They want to choose your friends for you. While all religions have moral guidelines, watch out for groups that encourage you to sever ties with close friends and family who are not members. They are manipulative and extremely dangerous. Exploitation: They make unrealistic demands regarding your time and/or money. If participation in a group takes away from your study time, beware. A group or leader that cares about you understands that your studies-your future-are your first priority as a Stanford student. SAR members are strictly forbidden to require dues from student participants. If you feel you are being pursued aggressively or manipulated by a group or leader, contact any of the Deans for Religious Life or call 723-1762. * * * Now, it strikes me as reasonable and appropriate for a University like Stanford to provide (perhaps) paternalistic guidance to students on all sorts of matters involving their "personal" lives, including involvement with religious groups and activities. (I would hope that a University's willingness to provide "warning[s]" to students about the dangers posed by some religions to "critical, independent thinking" would indicate a willingness to warn about similar dangers posed by, say, political or identity-related groups). I imagine that reasonable people will disagree about what, exactly, "counts" as "claim[ing] to possess the truth exclusively" or "[dis]courag[ing] critical, independent thinking," but put that problem aside. I wonder, do any members of this list have any thoughts or views on how, if at all, the First Amendment would constrain the issuance by a state-run university of a "warning" like Stanford's? Or, approaching the matter from a broader, "religion and liberal democracy" perspective, what would we think about this "warning"? Best, Rick ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Stanford's "Warning" about Religion
Dear all, In the course of looking into something having nothing to do with law-and-religion, I came across a web page, provided by Stanford University's Office for Religious Life, entitled "A Word of Warning." Here is a link: http://religiouslife.stanford.edu/sar/warning.html Here is the text: A Word of WarningMaintaining and nurturing your spiritual life during college and graduate school is one of the best ways to keep perspective on your studies and to avoid the isolation that is too often a part of scholarly pursuits. The Deans for Religious Life and members of SAR are committed to providing opportunities for spiritual growth, rewarding friendships and intellectual inquiry into matters of faith in a supportive environment. Unfortunately, not every religious group has your best interests at heart. Groups to avoid have some or all of the following characteristics. Pressure and Deception: They use high-pressure recruitment tactics or are not up-front about their motives when they first approach you. SAR members are required to identify themselves on all News and Publications and to be clear and forthright about their motives. Totalitarian Worldview: They do not encourage critical, independent thinking. The first goal of higher education is to enable you to think for yourself. Be aware of groups or leaders who try to control your life or who claim to possess the truth exclusively. Alienation: They want to choose your friends for you. While all religions have moral guidelines, watch out for groups that encourage you to sever ties with close friends and family who are not members. They are manipulative and extremely dangerous. Exploitation: They make unrealistic demands regarding your time and/or money. If participation in a group takes away from your study time, beware. A group or leader that cares about you understands that your studies-your future-are your first priority as a Stanford student. SAR members are strictly forbidden to require dues from student participants. If you feel you are being pursued aggressively or manipulated by a group or leader, contact any of the Deans for Religious Life or call 723-1762. * * * Now, it strikes me as reasonable and appropriate for a University like Stanford to provide (perhaps) paternalistic guidance to students on all sorts of matters involving their "personal" lives, including involvement with religious groups and activities. (I would hope that a University's willingness to provide "warning[s]" to students about the dangers posed by some religions to "critical, independent thinking" would indicate a willingness to warn about similar dangers posed by, say, political or identity-related groups). I imagine that reasonable people will disagree about what, exactly, "counts" as "claim[ing] to possess the truth exclusively" or "[dis]courag[ing] critical, independent thinking," but put that problem aside. I wonder, do any members of this list have any thoughts or views on how, if at all, the First Amendment would constrain the issuance by a state-run university of a "warning" like Stanford's? Or, approaching the matter from a broader, "religion and liberal democracy" perspective, what would we think about this "warning"? Best, Rick ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
