Re: Virginia ban on state troopers mentioning Jesus Christ in public prayers
A necessary travesty? More proof that religious liberty and legislative prayer are like Harry Potter and Voldemort * neither can live while the other survives? Best, Chris __ Christopher C. Lund Assistant Professor of Law Mississippi College School of Law 151 E. Griffith St. Jackson, MS 39201 (601) 925-7141 (office) (601) 925-7113 (fax) Papers: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=363402 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/26/2008 10:08 AM Thoughts? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092403471.html?hpid=sec-religion -- Prof. Steven Jamar Howard University School of Law Associate Director, Institute of Intellectual Property and Social Justice (IIPSJ) Inc. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Virginia ban on state troopers mentioning Jesus Christ in public prayers
Chaplains speaking at public events are not ministering to the particular religious needs of state troopers (in that private context, chaplains can pray in ways that accommodate and facilitate the beliefs of those to whom they are ministering). At public events, open to all (and sometimes mandatory) chaplains are the voices of the state, and should be limited to ceremonial, non-sectarian prayer. Bob Tuttle and I discuss this question in our paper on the military chaplaincy, 110 W. Va. L. Rev. 89, 148-159 (2007). There is lurking here a prior question of whether the government should be free to appoint chaplains in the first place for police officers, firefighters, or public employees generally (as Indiana recently did, only to back down in the face of a lawsuit). Police officers and firefighters, unlike prisoners and members of the armed forces, are not under the care and control of the government. Why is government ministering to police officers and firefighters, who are free to seek their own private, spiritual counsel? Original message Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:21:42 -0500 From: Christopher Lund [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Virginia ban on state troopers mentioning Jesus Christ in public prayers To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu A necessary travesty? More proof that religious liberty and legislative prayer are like Harry Potter and Voldemort - neither can live while the other survives? Best, Chris __ Christopher C. Lund Assistant Professor of Law Mississippi College School of Law 151 E. Griffith St. Jackson, MS 39201 (601) 925-7141 (office) (601) 925-7113 (fax) Papers: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=363402 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/26/2008 10:08 AM Thoughts? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092403471.html?hpid=sec-religion -- Prof. Steven Jamar Howard University School of Law Associate Director, Institute of Intellectual Property and Social Justice (IIPSJ) Inc. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. Ira C. Lupu F. Elwood Eleanor Davis Professor of Law George Washington University Law School 2000 H St., NW Washington, DC 20052 (202)994-7053 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Virginia ban on state troopers mentioning Jesus Christ in public prayers
The latest suit by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation on these issues was filed this week in Kansas (I got a copy of the complaint at http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/urgent%20_issues/complain_sept08.pdf About ten pages of the complaint look like a repeat of the broader allegations catalogued in the earlier case involving Spc. Jeremy Hall. However, the specific allegations in this action as I read them on the first and last few pages are directed at sectarian (specifically Christian) prayers offered by chaplains at mandatory command events. With that shift in focus, do any of you think this argument will get more traction than some of MRFF's earlier filings? Bill Wildhack --Member, Florida Bar and bar of the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida --Minister of Word and Sacrament, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) --Commander, Chaplain Corps, U.S. Navy Reserve **Disclaimer: Any views expressed below are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of the Department of the Navy or the Navy Chaplain Corps.** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ira (Chip) Lupu Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:45 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Virginia ban on state troopers mentioning Jesus Christ in public prayers Chaplains speaking at public events are not ministering to the particular religious needs of state troopers (in that private context, chaplains can pray in ways that accommodate and facilitate the beliefs of those to whom they are ministering). At public events, open to all (and sometimes mandatory) chaplains are the voices of the state, and should be limited to ceremonial, non-sectarian prayer. Bob Tuttle and I discuss this question in our paper on the military chaplaincy, 110 W. Va. L. Rev. 89, 148-159 (2007). There is lurking here a prior question of whether the government should be free to appoint chaplains in the first place for police officers, firefighters, or public employees generally (as Indiana recently did, only to back down in the face of a lawsuit). Police officers and firefighters, unlike prisoners and members of the armed forces, are not under the care and control of the government. Why is government ministering to police officers and firefighters, who are free to seek their own private, spiritual counsel? Original message Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:21:42 -0500 From: Christopher Lund [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Virginia ban on state troopers mentioning Jesus Christ in public prayers To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu A necessary travesty? More proof that religious liberty and legislative prayer are like Harry Potter and Voldemort - neither can live while the other survives? Best, Chris __ Christopher C. Lund Assistant Professor of Law Mississippi College School of Law 151 E. Griffith St. Jackson, MS 39201 (601) 925-7141 (office) (601) 925-7113 (fax) Papers: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=363402 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9/26/2008 10:08 AM Thoughts? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092403 471.html?hpid=sec-religion -- Prof. Steven Jamar Howard University School of Law Associate Director, Institute of Intellectual Property and Social Justice (IIPSJ) Inc. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. Ira C. Lupu F. Elwood Eleanor Davis Professor of Law George Washington University Law School 2000 H St., NW Washington, DC 20052 (202)994-7053 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly
Re: Virginia ban on state troopers mentioning Jesus Christ in public prayers
My first reaction on seeing your subject line, not mentioning chaplains, was 'Jesus Christ! What were they thinking of?' On reading the story, I was amused by the complaint about Republicans blaming the governor for everything, including tooth decay. As opposed to blaming Bush for everything, including the tsunami? At 11:08 AM 9/26/08 -0400, you wrote: Thoughts? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092403471.html?hpid=sec-religionhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092403471.html?hpid=sec-religion -- Prof. Steven Jamar Howard University School of Law Associate Director, Institute of Intellectual Property and Social Justice (IIPSJ) Inc. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
