Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
Paul Plack wrote: > Nate, > > If you leave the repeater on all day, but block calls from anyone but a > few friends, what has changed? Someone throwing out his callsign will > still find the room empty. Well, they could always hit and hold the "EMR" (probably originally meant to be "Emergency" mode, but the lawyers at Icom made sure it never says that ANYWHERE in the manuals, that I've found yet...) button and FORCE all the sand-baggers to listen. (Of course, if this feature gets over-used, people will just turn off their radios... but it even forces listening rigs to go to half volume if they're currently set below that threshold.) ;-) Annoying little feature if used inappropriately, eh? Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
Nate, If you leave the repeater on all day, but block calls from anyone but a few friends, what has changed? Someone throwing out his callsign will still find the room empty. The APRS reference was to newer rigs which can work with local repeater directories distributed by APRS, and display options on their front panels. Manual frequency-hopping only lets you follow nets as you drive if you know the next node to tune, its PL tone, etc. On your other suggestion, if there was a RB net on IRLP, I'd be very motivated to be there! 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it? One way to accomodate both is fancy CTCSS schemes, or in the case of D-STAR, the coded squelch features. If you want to hear, you do... if you don't you don't, but you leave the rig on for calls... APRS is the "continuous net", it's always there on 144.39 in most metropolitan areas -- what do you mean? It's not really designed for a round-table, really. Recent Activity a.. 15New Members Visit Your Group Yahoo! Groups Going Green Zone Resources for a greener planet. Resources for a greener you. Sell Online Start selling with our award-winning e-commerce tools. Yahoo! Groups Stay healthy and discover other people who can help. .
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
Sounds like I need to count my lucky stars that I'm in a community of active hams! 73 es Merry Xmas, Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John J. Riddell Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:33 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it? Benjamin, The sparse activity seems to be everywhere.One suggestion is to add IRLP to your repeater. When there is no local activity there always seems to be someone listening on the various reflectors all over the world and you can chat with them. Some time back, I was driving to pick up my wife from work at 7 PM here in Ontario, and I came across a fellow Ham in Japan who was also driving but it was 7 AM in the morning there. IRLP activity would certainly be of interest to anyone listening to our Ham repeaters on a scanner and it may just be the "spark" to get them interested in becoming a Ham. The inventor of IRLP is a Canadian Ham and is a member of this list, VE7LTD 73 John VE3AMZ (A Ham for 50 years) Waterloo, Ontario - Original Message - From: "Benjamin L. Naber" mailto:benjamin%40kb9lfz.com> > To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it? > So after reading a few messages, I began to think, what is each person > who gets these messages now going to do about it? > > I guess you have a few options. > > Sit on your butt in front of the idiot box like 90% of all Americans and > not do anything but complain. > -Or- > Do something about like going attending club meetings and begin public > service events. The ARRL has a lot of getting involved with amateur > radio. I read it about five years ago and to this day I still do what I > can which my military time consuming job allows - I still go on the air, > even if it's on the rid home.. > > Read my article in June/July 2004 QST. > > Unless you have a positive thing you are going do, then never mind this > post and do not reply. > > ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > <><>
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
Benjamin L. Naber wrote: > For those of you who are really doing all they can, this message is not > for you. It's for those that say they are so busy. So busy with what? > Really, ask yourself, what makes you sooo busy that you cannot get on > the air at home or in the car? Even for five damn minutes? Benjamin -- I think a lot of us do as you do, and get on the air at each opportunity. But if I get on the air on every FM repeater I like to talk to people on (who are scattered across many), link up IRLP to popular places and say hello to other friends, get on the D-STAR system and do the same, fire up 2m SSB and see who's around in THAT group (they rarely get on repeaters, that gang), and also play a little on HF... That's hours a day. Realistically, I get on ONE of those things about once a day... call it five to six times a week. And look for a good conversation or friends to talk to. That means one person can only cover a very small amount of the time a repeater has available to it, each day... so to speak. Every repeater has 86400 seconds a day available to it to provide communications. I can maybe eat up a MAXIMUM on a really long QSO of two hours of KEY DOWN on my part... 7200 of those. It would take 12 people to keep the repeater on-air 24/7 at that rate, every single day. And if I were keying down for that long, I'd be considered a "repeater hog", I'm sure... but that's because the users all show up at generally the same times each day. See below for more on that. If we take out the overnight hours, you need 6 hams actively transmitting that much (which is too much) to have 12 hours of activity. You also need someone around to receive them and reply... and they could be the same people, but that's unlikely. So you probably need about 12 ACTIVE people on every repeater to make it a "busy" system. 12 hams, who talk a lot, every single day. I think the reality is... once you point out that most areas have at least 20 repeaters of some sort, with some kind of coverage in metro areas -- there's so many repeaters, we'll never adequately use the spectrum. Scanning helps. I pop over to other people's repeaters all the time. Luckily there's little in the way of "taboo" in doing this around here. If it's 2AM and I'm driving home and I hear ANY repeater pair (yes, I have ALL of them programmed into one rig) active, I'll either at least listen to the QSO or join in. How many people are bold enough to do that on unknown repeaters? I see it the same as "tuning around on HF"... if you're on-air, I'll talk to you that late at night.) Net's and set "activity times" are almost the only way to find the people interested in what you're interested in. And a lot of people turn off their rigs or go to other repeaters if the topic isn't something THEY are interested in. Interesting math for the number of seconds a repeater has "to give" every day, isn't it, when you break it down to real operators? It's amazing we ever find groups to associate with and stick with them on specific repeaters other than the fact that the real activity tends to "bunch up" around drive time. Most repeaters sit stone silent during the overnight hours, of course. So where is Repeater-Builder going to build an "always on" on-air presence? Does anyone even want to? Will we go crazy with end-user questions about repeaters? (Might be fun, might not...) Anyone willing to "park" somewhere? Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
Paul Plack wrote: > This is an interesting debate. Anyone who builds a repeater finds > satisfaction when it attracts a community of users - "A warm heatsink is > a happy heatsink." But many users seem to favor repeaters with little > traffic, allowing unobtrusive monitoring for their friends. One way to accomodate both is fancy CTCSS schemes, or in the case of D-STAR, the coded squelch features. If you want to hear, you do... if you don't you don't, but you leave the rig on for calls -- which seems to be the important distinction in today's day and age where we have so many "noisemakers" that a lot of people only turn on the rig to make that one call, and then turn it back off. > Low usage is a time bomb in an age of growing demand for bandwidth. IRLP > could be one answer, but the reflectors seem to attract lots of chatter > which isn't very interesting to hear. I've turned the rig off many times > when I heard hams swapping S-meter reports. Hahahah... yes, dumb conversations and GOOD conversations both go with the territory of busy linked systems. Can't avoid it. We recently had some "controversy" here about that, and asked the groups wanting "quiet" and "noise" to split up... different repeaters for the different personality types. Me personally, I'll listen to anything -- if I *really* don't want to listen I know where the OFF button is. But my wife can attest (and maybe this is due to my multi-tasking ways with radios in airplane cockpits for a long time), I can have the commercial broadcast radio on, a ham repeater, a phone call going, and still able to be "interrupt driven" if something more important signals for my attention. (My wife on the other hand, can not... and no matter how hard you shake her, jump up and down, scream or otherwise... if she's on the phone, you can't stop her and update her with updated information for the person who she's talking to. She simply can't do it. You'll end up telling her, "I TRIED TO GET YOUR ATTENTION" and she'll have to call the person back. She wouldn't make a very good 911 dispatcher! GRIN...) > IRLP could be really neat for special interest nets. I've often thought > it would be great to have something equivalent to the old ECARS 40m net > for mobiles. I'd welcome the company when driving long distances at night. Yes, all the linked systems are great for that type of thing but rarely is it done. There are Nets about talking, but few nets about specific technical topics or ham activities on the Reflectors. I always thought the Houston AMSAT Net would be an excellent one to find on both IRLP and EchoLink... if you had enough volunteers around to knock the nodes offline who can't get their keying/ID's right. > I suppose APRS will have to become more fully developed before we'll be > able to easily find nets while transient. APRS is the "continuous net", it's always there on 144.39 in most metropolitan areas -- what do you mean? It's not really designed for a round-table, really. > Perhaps this will be the real "killer app" for D*. A mobile net that > utilizes automated frequency-hopping to work like satellite broadcast > radio on long drives would be awesome. Frequency hopping is easy to do manually, but it doesn't require D-STAR for that... just enough repeaters on the same network/reflector/conference along your route, or capable of being linked as you go. We have truck drivers here in Colorado that link the various IRLP machines together or to a Reflector as they drive around the state late at night... it works fine. That's not a "Net" per se, but there's no reason they couldn't expand it to the "Late Night Truck Drivers Conference", easily... if they wanted to. I've often wondered how to move THIS conversation -- REPEATER Builders/Geeks... to a known meeting place on-air. Wouldn't this discussion be more interesting in person with voices? :-) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
I think it's time to kiss our little useless things we do on that side and say hello to radio again. After all, what are you *really* accomplishing? For those of you who are really doing all they can, this message is not for you. It's for those that say they are so busy. So busy with what? Really, ask yourself, what makes you sooo busy that you cannot get on the air at home or in the car? Even for five damn minutes? On this military installation, no antennas on the house allowed and handheld in the hole I live in don't make for good TX/RX range. But you bet that every time I get in the car, even at 5:45AM, I put out my callsign. Everytime. If you have an extenuating; roger, got it. But for the rest of you? Get on the air you just give your stuff to someone who will. No reply needed, just roll your sleeves up, get on the air, and do something to get others to follow suit. ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 16:46 -0700, Paul Plack wrote: > This is an interesting debate. Anyone who builds a repeater finds > satisfaction when it attracts a community of users - "A warm heatsink > is a happy heatsink." But many users seem to favor repeaters with > little traffic, allowing unobtrusive monitoring for their friends. > > Low usage is a time bomb in an age of growing demand for bandwidth. > IRLP could be one answer, but the reflectors seem to attract lots of > chatter which isn't very interesting to hear. I've turned the rig off > many times when I heard hams swapping S-meter reports. > > IRLP could be really neat for special interest nets. I've often > thought it would be great to have something equivalent to the old > ECARS 40m net for mobiles. I'd welcome the company when driving long > distances at night. > > I suppose APRS will have to become more fully developed before we'll > be able to easily find nets while transient. > > Perhaps this will be the real "killer app" for D*. A mobile net that > utilizes automated frequency-hopping to work like satellite broadcast > radio on long drives would be awesome. > > 73, > Paul, AE4KR > > > - Original Message - > From: John J. Riddell > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - > what are you going to do about it? > > > Benjamin, > The sparse activity seems to be everywhere.One suggestion > is to > add IRLP to your repeater. When there is no local activity > there always > seems to be someone listening on the various reflectors all > over the world > and you can chat with them. > > Some time back, I was driving to pick up my wife from work at > 7 PM > here in Ontario, and I came across a fellow Ham in Japan who > was also > driving > but it was 7 AM in the morning there. > > IRLP activity would certainly be of interest to anyone > listening to our > Ham repeaters on a scanner and it may just be the "spark" to > get them > interested > in becoming a Ham. > > The inventor of IRLP is a Canadian Ham and is a member of this > list, VE7LTD > > 73 John VE3AMZ (A Ham for 50 years) > Waterloo, Ontario > > - Original Message - > From: "Benjamin L. Naber" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:47 PM > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - > what are you > going to do about it? > > > So after reading a few messages, I began to think, what is > each person > > who gets these messages now going to do about it? > > > > I guess you have a few options. > > > > Sit on your butt in front of the idiot box like 90% of all > Americans and > > not do anything but complain. > > -Or- > > Do something about like going attending club meetings and > begin public > > service events. The ARRL has a lot of getting involved with > amateur > > radio. I read it about five years ago and to this day I > still do what I > > can which my military time consuming job allows - I still go > on the air, > > even if it's on the rid home.. > > > > Read my article in June/July 2004 QST. > > > > Unless you have a positive thing you are going do, then > never mind this > > post and do not reply. > > > > ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
This is an interesting debate. Anyone who builds a repeater finds satisfaction when it attracts a community of users - "A warm heatsink is a happy heatsink." But many users seem to favor repeaters with little traffic, allowing unobtrusive monitoring for their friends. Low usage is a time bomb in an age of growing demand for bandwidth. IRLP could be one answer, but the reflectors seem to attract lots of chatter which isn't very interesting to hear. I've turned the rig off many times when I heard hams swapping S-meter reports. IRLP could be really neat for special interest nets. I've often thought it would be great to have something equivalent to the old ECARS 40m net for mobiles. I'd welcome the company when driving long distances at night. I suppose APRS will have to become more fully developed before we'll be able to easily find nets while transient. Perhaps this will be the real "killer app" for D*. A mobile net that utilizes automated frequency-hopping to work like satellite broadcast radio on long drives would be awesome. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: John J. Riddell To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it? Benjamin, The sparse activity seems to be everywhere.One suggestion is to add IRLP to your repeater. When there is no local activity there always seems to be someone listening on the various reflectors all over the world and you can chat with them. Some time back, I was driving to pick up my wife from work at 7 PM here in Ontario, and I came across a fellow Ham in Japan who was also driving but it was 7 AM in the morning there. IRLP activity would certainly be of interest to anyone listening to our Ham repeaters on a scanner and it may just be the "spark" to get them interested in becoming a Ham. The inventor of IRLP is a Canadian Ham and is a member of this list, VE7LTD 73 John VE3AMZ (A Ham for 50 years) Waterloo, Ontario - Original Message - From: "Benjamin L. Naber" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it? > So after reading a few messages, I began to think, what is each person > who gets these messages now going to do about it? > > I guess you have a few options. > > Sit on your butt in front of the idiot box like 90% of all Americans and > not do anything but complain. > -Or- > Do something about like going attending club meetings and begin public > service events. The ARRL has a lot of getting involved with amateur > radio. I read it about five years ago and to this day I still do what I > can which my military time consuming job allows - I still go on the air, > even if it's on the rid home.. > > Read my article in June/July 2004 QST. > > Unless you have a positive thing you are going do, then never mind this > post and do not reply. > > ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
Benjamin, The sparse activity seems to be everywhere.One suggestion is to add IRLP to your repeater. When there is no local activity there always seems to be someone listening on the various reflectors all over the world and you can chat with them. Some time back, I was driving to pick up my wife from work at 7 PM here in Ontario, and I came across a fellow Ham in Japan who was also driving but it was 7 AM in the morning there. IRLP activity would certainly be of interest to anyone listening to our Ham repeaters on a scanner and it may just be the "spark" to get them interested in becoming a Ham. The inventor of IRLP is a Canadian Ham and is a member of this list, VE7LTD 73 John VE3AMZ (A Ham for 50 years) Waterloo, Ontario - Original Message - From: "Benjamin L. Naber" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it? > So after reading a few messages, I began to think, what is each person > who gets these messages now going to do about it? > > I guess you have a few options. > > Sit on your butt in front of the idiot box like 90% of all Americans and > not do anything but complain. > -Or- > Do something about like going attending club meetings and begin public > service events. The ARRL has a lot of getting involved with amateur > radio. I read it about five years ago and to this day I still do what I > can which my military time consuming job allows - I still go on the air, > even if it's on the rid home.. > > Read my article in June/July 2004 QST. > > Unless you have a positive thing you are going do, then never mind this > post and do not reply. > > ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Repeater Usage - what are you going to do about it?
So after reading a few messages, I began to think, what is each person who gets these messages now going to do about it? I guess you have a few options. Sit on your butt in front of the idiot box like 90% of all Americans and not do anything but complain. -Or- Do something about like going attending club meetings and begin public service events. The ARRL has a lot of getting involved with amateur radio. I read it about five years ago and to this day I still do what I can which my military time consuming job allows - I still go on the air, even if it's on the rid home.. Read my article in June/July 2004 QST. Unless you have a positive thing you are going do, then never mind this post and do not reply. ~Benjamin, KB9LFZ
