Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[John Gleichweit]

Don't forget your toast, rice and playing cards, too.

On 8/21/2010 9:22 PM, George Henry wrote:
> And the spray bottle of water, and the newspaper...
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Morris"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6&  10 meters.
>
>
>> At 09:27 PM 08/20/10, you wrote:
>>
>>>> skipp025 wrote:
>>
>> (big chunk cut out)
>>
>>> Put "Great" in front of your name yelled out loud and people
>>> in a movie house will often throw toilet paper across the room.
>>>
>>> (It's OK if you don't get the reference and those of you who
>>> do, please seek professional help).
>>
>> Hmmm, seems like more than one of us have been spinning
>> the globe at too many midnight movies...
>> And don't forget the unbuttered toast, the bell and the cards.
>>
>> <http://www.rockyhorror.com/news/article.php?p=2007122701>
>> I went to the Rialto about a dozen times... the audience (and
>> performers) were nuttier and funnier than the flic...
>> It showed the RHPS every Saturday night midnight from
>> January 1978 to August 2007... 29 years... about 1,400 performances.
>>
>> And it's still run once a month...  And the performers are still there.
>> <http://findlocal.latimes.com/south-pasadena/home/movie-events/rocky-horror-picture-show-movie-event-4>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[George Henry]

And the spray bottle of water, and the newspaper...



- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Morris" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.


> At 09:27 PM 08/20/10, you wrote:
>
>> > skipp025 wrote:
>
> (big chunk cut out)
>
>>Put "Great" in front of your name yelled out loud and people
>>in a movie house will often throw toilet paper across the room.
>>
>>(It's OK if you don't get the reference and those of you who
>>do, please seek professional help).
>
> Hmmm, seems like more than one of us have been spinning
> the globe at too many midnight movies...
> And don't forget the unbuttered toast, the bell and the cards.
>
> <http://www.rockyhorror.com/news/article.php?p=2007122701>
> I went to the Rialto about a dozen times... the audience (and
> performers) were nuttier and funnier than the flic...
> It showed the RHPS every Saturday night midnight from
> January 1978 to August 2007... 29 years... about 1,400 performances.
>
> And it's still run once a month...  And the performers are still there.
> <http://findlocal.latimes.com/south-pasadena/home/movie-events/rocky-horror-picture-show-movie-event-4>
>
>>s.
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[men...@pa.net]

The Motorola document is based on the use of the Spectrun base loaded  
antennas sold by Mother.  The Spectrum antenna is a series coil  
arrangement, not a shunt fed or tapped coil; this is very important!

The chart works quite well for the Spectrum antennas and will probably  
work for any other series fed LB coil.  It will not work for any  
antenna that is shunt fed as myself and several others found out when  
trying to make two non-Motorola antennas work on a fire engine.

The maker of the Untenna antennas told me once that they could be  
combined in the same way but the method was different; IIRC the  
antenna to T cables were to be quarterwaves but were for the opposing  
frequency.  Never tried it and that was a long time ago and no notes  
to back up my memory.

Another document exists that details using a ball mount full length  
whip and a Spectrum series fed LB base load in the same shared  
configuration.

Milt
N3LTQ







Quoting Scott Zimmerman :

> skipp025 wrote:
>  > The Catholic Church says only the rhythm method is allowed.
> I SOMEHOW don't think that 'method' will help us in this situation.
> Although that's how my third child came along. (3 of 3) A BOY BTW!
> (Yea, Me!!)
>
>  >> P.S. I do have a copy of Motorola 68-80100W86 - Diplex
>  >> Antenna Manual. This document is written for use with
>  >> "standard base-loaded mobile antennas only."
>  >
>  > Is it scanned into or available in a PDF file format? I'd
>  > really like to see a copy if it's available and easily
>  > Emailed.  Always nice to see how others do things...
>
> I thought the above was pretty much common knowledge. Please see the
> attached PDF file. (Note to Mike Wa6ILQ: Please add to the RB site.)
>
> I was warned that this document seems to be backwards in that the length
> of cable that it says is supposed to go to the higher frequency antenna,
> actually goes to the lower frequency antenna and vice-versa.
>
> I would LOVE to know some of the theory behind this method. I was hoping
> to use this on a remote base antenna with 'Station' type antennas, but I
> don't think that will work since it clearly states that "Only standard
> base-loaded antennas are used"
>
> Comments? Suggestions? Theory?
>
> Scott
>
> Scott Zimmerman
> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
> 474 Barnett Road
> Boswell, PA 15531
>
>
> skipp025 wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[Mike Morris]

At 09:27 PM 08/20/10, you wrote:

> > skipp025 wrote:

(big chunk cut out)

>Put "Great" in front of your name yelled out loud and people
>in a movie house will often throw toilet paper across the room.
>
>(It's OK if you don't get the reference and those of you who
>do, please seek professional help).

Hmmm, seems like more than one of us have been spinning
the globe at too many midnight movies...
And don't forget the unbuttered toast, the bell and the cards.


I went to the Rialto about a dozen times... the audience (and
performers) were nuttier and funnier than the flic...
It showed the RHPS every Saturday night midnight from
January 1978 to August 2007... 29 years... about 1,400 performances.

And it's still run once a month...  And the performers are still there.


>s.

Mike

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[Mike Morris]

At 07:49 PM 08/20/10, you wrote:
>skipp025 wrote:
>  > The Catholic Church says only the rhythm method is allowed.
>I SOMEHOW don't think that 'method' will help us in this situation.
>Although that's how my third child came along. (3 of 3) A BOY BTW!
>(Yea, Me!!)
>
>  >> P.S. I do have a copy of Motorola 68-80100W86 - Diplex
>  >> Antenna Manual. This document is written for use with
>  >> "standard base-loaded mobile antennas only."
>  >
>  > Is it scanned into or available in a PDF file format? I'd
>  > really like to see a copy if it's available and easily
>  > Emailed.  Always nice to see how others do things...
>
>I thought the above was pretty much common knowledge. Please see the
>attached PDF file. (Note to Mike Wa6ILQ: Please add to the RB site.)

Been there since mid-2006, or maybe before that.  Go to teh Antennas
page, scroll down to the bottom, and look in the mobile section.

>I was warned that this document seems to be backwards in that the length
>of cable that it says is supposed to go to the higher frequency antenna,
>actually goes to the lower frequency antenna and vice-versa.

It's designed as a 1/2 wave that "disconnects" the "wrong" antenna.  I can see
how it might be perceived as backwards.

>I would LOVE to know some of the theory behind this method. I was hoping
>to use this on a remote base antenna with 'Station' type antennas, but I
>don't think that will work since it clearly states that "Only standard
>base-loaded antennas are used"
>
>Comments? Suggestions? Theory?
>
>Scott
>
>Scott Zimmerman
>Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
>474 Barnett Road
>Boswell, PA 15531

Mike WA6ILQ

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[ae6zm]

Who knew repeaters could be so MUCH fun??

Hi hi.

Wes


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "skipp025"  wrote:
>
> 
> > skipp025 wrote:
> > The Catholic Church says only the rhythm method is allowed.
> 
> > I SOMEHOW don't think that 'method' will help us in this 
> > situation. Although that's how my third child came along. 
> > (3 of 3) A BOY BTW! (Yea, Me!!)
> 
> Let me guess, you're Catholic, Latino or LDS..?  ... or you live 
> on the East Coast where there are a lot of long dark nights, 
> even in the summertime?
> 
> >  >> P.S. I do have a copy of Motorola 68-80100W86 - Diplex
> >  >> Antenna Manual. This document is written for use with
> >  >> "standard base-loaded mobile antennas only."
> >  >
> >  > Is it scanned into or available in a PDF file format? I'd
> >  > really like to see a copy if it's available and easily
> >  > Emailed.  Always nice to see how others do things... 
> 
> > I thought the above was pretty much common knowledge. Please 
> > see the attached PDF file. (Note to Mike Wa6ILQ: Please add 
> > to the RB site.)
> 
> Any chance you or one of the other group members can forward a 
> copy to me direct. Those of us reading the group posts via a 
> web browser don't receive the attachments. 
> 
> > I was warned that this document seems to be backwards in 
> > that the length of cable that it says is supposed to go 
> > to the higher frequency antenna, actually goes to the 
> > lower frequency antenna and vice-versa.
> 
> I'd like to have a look... 
> 
> > I would LOVE to know some of the theory behind this method. 
> > I was hoping to use this on a remote base antenna with 
> > 'Station' type antennas, but I don't think that will work 
> > since it clearly states that "Only standard base-loaded 
> > antennas are used"
> 
> I've got three or four different base loaded coil antennas on 
> the same frequency with a different design. I don't have a clue 
> which one is the "Standard Base Loaded Antenna". I know one is 
> reported to be a 5/8 wave antenna, the next a half-wave antenna, 
> another a No Ground Plane antenna and another that's a different 
> un-labeled pile of poop. They all are the similar looking Maxrad 
> models. 
> 
> > Comments? Suggestions? Theory?
> 
> 1. White sauce on Pasta is pretty good. 
> 2. Try the soup and salad on Fridays. 
> 3. You'll eat a smaller dinner if you first have the soup & salad. 
> 
> > Scott
> 
> Put "Great" in front of your name yelled out loud and people 
> in a movie house will often throw toilet paper across the room. 
> 
> (It's OK if you don't get the reference and those of you who 
> do, please seek professional help). 
> 
> I'll have a look at the document and let ya know what might 
> be going on there. 
> 
> s.
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[skipp025]

> skipp025 wrote:
> The Catholic Church says only the rhythm method is allowed.

> I SOMEHOW don't think that 'method' will help us in this 
> situation. Although that's how my third child came along. 
> (3 of 3) A BOY BTW! (Yea, Me!!)

Let me guess, you're Catholic, Latino or LDS..?  ... or you live 
on the East Coast where there are a lot of long dark nights, 
even in the summertime?

>  >> P.S. I do have a copy of Motorola 68-80100W86 - Diplex
>  >> Antenna Manual. This document is written for use with
>  >> "standard base-loaded mobile antennas only."
>  >
>  > Is it scanned into or available in a PDF file format? I'd
>  > really like to see a copy if it's available and easily
>  > Emailed.  Always nice to see how others do things... 

> I thought the above was pretty much common knowledge. Please 
> see the attached PDF file. (Note to Mike Wa6ILQ: Please add 
> to the RB site.)

Any chance you or one of the other group members can forward a 
copy to me direct. Those of us reading the group posts via a 
web browser don't receive the attachments. 

> I was warned that this document seems to be backwards in 
> that the length of cable that it says is supposed to go 
> to the higher frequency antenna, actually goes to the 
> lower frequency antenna and vice-versa.

I'd like to have a look... 

> I would LOVE to know some of the theory behind this method. 
> I was hoping to use this on a remote base antenna with 
> 'Station' type antennas, but I don't think that will work 
> since it clearly states that "Only standard base-loaded 
> antennas are used"

I've got three or four different base loaded coil antennas on 
the same frequency with a different design. I don't have a clue 
which one is the "Standard Base Loaded Antenna". I know one is 
reported to be a 5/8 wave antenna, the next a half-wave antenna, 
another a No Ground Plane antenna and another that's a different 
un-labeled pile of poop. They all are the similar looking Maxrad 
models. 

> Comments? Suggestions? Theory?

1. White sauce on Pasta is pretty good. 
2. Try the soup and salad on Fridays. 
3. You'll eat a smaller dinner if you first have the soup & salad. 

> Scott

Put "Great" in front of your name yelled out loud and people 
in a movie house will often throw toilet paper across the room. 

(It's OK if you don't get the reference and those of you who 
do, please seek professional help). 

I'll have a look at the document and let ya know what might 
be going on there. 

s. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[MCH]

Hmmm... maybe it was an open that was presented rather than a short...

Whichever make the off-frequency antenna appear to not be there.

Joe M.

Scott Zimmerman wrote:
> skipp025 wrote:
>  > The Catholic Church says only the rhythm method is allowed.
> I SOMEHOW don't think that 'method' will help us in this situation. 
> Although that's how my third child came along. (3 of 3) A BOY BTW! 
> (Yea, Me!!)
> 
>  >> P.S. I do have a copy of Motorola 68-80100W86 - Diplex
>  >> Antenna Manual. This document is written for use with
>  >> "standard base-loaded mobile antennas only."
>  >
>  > Is it scanned into or available in a PDF file format? I'd
>  > really like to see a copy if it's available and easily
>  > Emailed.  Always nice to see how others do things...
> 
> I thought the above was pretty much common knowledge. Please see the 
> attached PDF file. (Note to Mike Wa6ILQ: Please add to the RB site.)
> 
> I was warned that this document seems to be backwards in that the length 
> of cable that it says is supposed to go to the higher frequency antenna, 
> actually goes to the lower frequency antenna and vice-versa.
> 
> I would LOVE to know some of the theory behind this method. I was hoping 
> to use this on a remote base antenna with 'Station' type antennas, but I 
> don't think that will work since it clearly states that "Only standard 
> base-loaded antennas are used"
> 
> Comments? Suggestions? Theory?
> 
> Scott
> 
> Scott Zimmerman
> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
> 474 Barnett Road
> Boswell, PA 15531
> 
> 
> skipp025 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.783 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2746 - Release Date: 03/14/10 
> 03:33:00
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[MCH]

It's been a while since we needed these, but I used to make them all the 
time for low band fire (33.70 and 46.38). As I recall, the stub is a 
short to the opposite frequency - making the antenna appear to not be 
there. Hence, all the power goes to the 'on frequency antenna'.

Congrats on the third harmonic, BTW.

Joe M.

Scott Zimmerman wrote:
> skipp025 wrote:
>  > The Catholic Church says only the rhythm method is allowed.
> I SOMEHOW don't think that 'method' will help us in this situation. 
> Although that's how my third child came along. (3 of 3) A BOY BTW! 
> (Yea, Me!!)
> 
>  >> P.S. I do have a copy of Motorola 68-80100W86 - Diplex
>  >> Antenna Manual. This document is written for use with
>  >> "standard base-loaded mobile antennas only."
>  >
>  > Is it scanned into or available in a PDF file format? I'd
>  > really like to see a copy if it's available and easily
>  > Emailed.  Always nice to see how others do things...
> 
> I thought the above was pretty much common knowledge. Please see the 
> attached PDF file. (Note to Mike Wa6ILQ: Please add to the RB site.)
> 
> I was warned that this document seems to be backwards in that the length 
> of cable that it says is supposed to go to the higher frequency antenna, 
> actually goes to the lower frequency antenna and vice-versa.
> 
> I would LOVE to know some of the theory behind this method. I was hoping 
> to use this on a remote base antenna with 'Station' type antennas, but I 
> don't think that will work since it clearly states that "Only standard 
> base-loaded antennas are used"
> 
> Comments? Suggestions? Theory?
> 
> Scott
> 
> Scott Zimmerman
> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
> 474 Barnett Road
> Boswell, PA 15531
> 
> 
> skipp025 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 9.0.783 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2746 - Release Date: 03/14/10 
> 03:33:00
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[skipp025]

Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

> Get 2 CB whips, Cut 1 for 1/4 wave at 10M and cut the 
> other for 1/4 wave at 6M
> Build a metal spacer bracket. 3 inches long by 5/8" or 3/4" Drill 2
> holes on the end and one in the center for the 3/8-24 hardware. Bolt
> whips to the ends of the spacer, use star style lock washers.
> Use a 3/8-24 x 3/4" long bolt and attach spacer and whip 
> assembly to a ball mount.
> Epoxy a 3" plastic spacer bracket 5" down from the top of 
> the 6m whip to act as a spacer between it and the 10m whip.

Don't know if the CB Shops still sell them but we/they used 
to call them "T-Bars". Very popular with the 2 or 3 is better 
than one crowd. Mount them high enough on the vehicle and you can 
take-out all the fluorescent lights in your favorite Gas Station 
with a simple drive-through. 

Just playing devils advocate here... the above setup is kind of 
unwieldy for most people and bumper or ball mounts on a newer car 
is sometimes problematic. 

You don't really need two different antennas, you can "probably" 
fairly easily make or find some type of a dual band antenna 
with the obvious sacrifice of a bit of band-width. 

But I'd like to talk on the Amateur Bands and I sometimes need 
to talk in both the 33 MHz and 43 MHz ranges. One reason I have 
a few other options in place that clearly trade performance for 
acceptable SWR. Once again, "something small is better than 
nothing at all"... 

cheers, 
s. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[DCFluX]

Get 2 CB whips, Cut 1 for 1/4 wave at 10M and cut the other for 1/4 wave at 6M

Build a metal spacer bracket. 3 inches long by 5/8" or 3/4" Drill 2
holes on the end and one in the center for the 3/8-24 hardware. Bolt
whips to the ends of the spacer, use star style lock washers.

Use a 3/8-24 x 3/4" long bolt and attach spacer and whip assembly to a
ball mount.

Epoxy a 3" plastic spacer bracket 5" down from the top of the 6m whip
to act as a spacer between it and the 10m whip.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters.

[skipp025]

Re: Low Band Antenna for both 6 & 10 meters. 

> Scott Zimmerman  wrote:
> Skipp,
> How did you work the antenna scheme for this radio? 

Hi Scott, 

There are a number of available options. First, I've seen 
but do not own one of the Comet/Diamond multi-band antennas 
that does cover both bands plus. I saw one on the back of a guys 
car at a local flea market and he said it covers multi-bands 
including both 10 and 6 meters. Don't remember if it was a 
Comet of Diamond but it was one of those two brands. 

Another method is to diplex two antennas for each band if you 
only want to operate within the range of the antennas. 

There is another trick to cut the antenna long and use a 
band-width expansion box as previously sold by Antenna 
Specialists. Probably discontinued by this time... 

A method to obtain bandwidth at the cost of performance 
is to use a shortened vertical with a fairly lossy matching 
network. It's a big time trade and well out of the scope of 
an easy explanation here on the group. 

And in a no good deed goes unpunished application I have 
something similar to an improved Maxcon Antenna Matching 
unit talking to a number of vertical whips I can swap in 
and out. An acceptable very wide bandwidth SWR talking to 
a very lossy antenna matching system & antenna is better 
than no antenna a'tall. 

> Did you use the Motorola docs, or some other method? 

The Catholic Church says only the rhythm method is allowed. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar-based_contraceptive_methods 

> In my app, I am going to be using a Syntor X on 6 and 
> 10. I was going to use a controller UF output to control 
> a RF relay for the correct antenna based upon what 
> channel the remote base was set for. This leaves room 
> for error both on the part of the controller and idiot 
> doing the programming. (Me) It sure would be nice to 
> have an RF solution (the Motorola cut length cable method) 
> or an internal radio logic way of doing this.

You can band detect the RF and coax tr-relay hot switch in 
the other ranges if you wanted to be that creative. Another 
option I just thought about is asking a Company like LDG if 
they make a tuner covering VHF through 6 meters. 

> P.S. I do have a copy of Motorola 68-80100W86 - Diplex 
> Antenna Manual. This document is written for use with 
> "standard base-loaded mobile antennas only."

Is it scanned into or available in a PDF file format? I'd 
really like to see a copy if it's available and easily 
Emailed.  Always nice to see how others do things... 

> Scott

cheers, 
s. 

aka Rubber Chicken... 

> > skipp025 wrote:
> > However, you can get a tk-6110 to do both 10 and 6 meters in 
> > the same radio. I personally have done the mod a few times, 
> > it's not super easy but it can be done.
>