Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[DCFluX]

The majority of my controllers are ACC products. I own an RC-850, 2
RC-85s, 2 ITC-32s, one of those with the 'Digitalker' board.

Long dead, but can't get the guy that bought the rights to release the
source code or even license it. I did want to get the supposed v6
update that was rumored finished and distributed.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 10:00 PM 08/05/08, you wrote:
>Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)
>
> > Mike Morris WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > My own experience is that owners prefer the one that
> > they had their first really positive experience with,
> > learned the ins and outs of, and are loath to change
> > due to the learning curve.
>
>Well... we don't mind changing when the new controller works
>well and has the features we want without an episode of "Punch
>the Clown Face" related to hardware problems, the software and
>user programming.

True - but I find myself (and see others) trying to do things "the
(brand A) way" when programming "brand B).

This is similar to the scenario I've seen several times while
working on software projects - many times you can tell
if a person's first programming language was BASIC,
assembler, FORTRAN, COBOL or C by reading some of
their code and looking at the style.

> > My first controller was programmed with solder - it drove
> > a tube-based 2m repeater receiver and transmitter so it had
> > a tube-based COR and PL decoder,
>
>Repeater Poker 2008
>I'll anti the pot and raise the blinds by guessing... Motorola
>Sensicon, Research Line GE Pre-Prog, GE Prog or even an RCA
>Carfone?

The receiver was a Sensicon-A, and the transmitter was a
60 watt K strip. The IDer was a code wheel on a clock motor.
After the box was retired (political problems - the frequency
changed hands and the new owner put up a Master-Pro) the
receiver got converted to 220 MHz.  Never had to flip the
chassis over.  Short the lines with copper disks, change
the crystal and tune.

>You didn't have a Link or Allen B Dumont Repeater
>did you?

Never had a DuMont - but did have some manuals (one of my
finds was a shop that went out of business and dumped two
5-drawer file cabinets (contents and all) into a dumpster.  Both
cabinets came home in the back of my station wagon).

One of my base receivers was a Link 1905ED2A that I had
"baseified" with an internal 120vAC supply, and speaker grille
drilled into the top left of the front panel (one 1 hole at a time)
and a speaker mounted inside. Other receivers that lived in
the garage rack were more Sensicon As and Gs, and my
first UHF radio was a RCA CMU-15 mobile.  My first car was
a 1957 Buick and had a vibrator based Globe CB plus
dynamotors (dynamic braking, anyone?) on 6m and 2m mobiles.
My 1971 Ford Falcon wagon had one "P" mount and five NMO
mounts, all Motracs except for a Johnson Messenger 323,
a Standard 24-channel crystal based monitor receiver, and
a Heathkit siren-PA (with the siren section modified to be a
car alarm).

Some crystals I got from International, and some I hand-ground
with BonAmi and a piece of glass (the local surplus store had
FT243 mil-surplus crystals in the 5.5 to 7.5 MHz range for 25 cents
each and over the years I moved bunches of them as much as
900KHz (at the fundamental) to land everywhere from 146.01
to 147.96Mhz in the As, Gs, and Motracs.  Even the Motracs
that expected 12Mhz and 15Mhz rocks were happy with the
FT243s.
My first home-made PL encoder was a twin-T transistorized
oscillator that went into the 2M K-strip transmitter, another
into the CMU-15, and a third that lived in the basement of a
universal-case HT200 handheld.

> > everything else was Agstat pneumatic time delay relays,
> > clock motor timers, and KRP DPDT and 3PDT relays. It had a
> > rotary dial (!) autopatch and a a 6m remote base.
>
>Raided some surplus electronics outlet..?

C and H surplus in Pasadena, California.  My dad and I
discovered them in 1960 and we moved into bicycle range
in 1965. I used to ride over there two or three times a week.
I got to know the place so well that the staff used to ask me
where stuff was - and in the mid 1970s we camped out on the
roof and watched the Rose Parade go by right under our feet.

Unfortunately C and H is no more - they closed in May of
this year (the owner was in his 70s and had suffered a
stroke after his second heart attack - and the kids and
grandkids had no interest in running the store...)  They
had a blowout of Tek 7000 series scope plugins

>maybe found a good deal or surplus commercial (tube-type)
>radio gear... even betta'  the parts were free (donation)?

A friend of mine worked for a MSS in Glendale, CA.   He
had some "interesting" opportunities to creatively (but
legally) acquire some good stuff 

Such as the weekend that almost all of the UHF Mastr
Pro-based repeaters and remote base stations all over
the southern California area went dark.   Seems that
the MSS had made a major fleet sale and a large quantity
(close to 100) late model UHF Mastr-Pros were traded
in...  and were headed for the Motorola crusher come
Monday morning.

Seems that the early Pros had a major design flaw that
caused major grief. It also seems that the nice late model
traded-in Pros were stacked behind the MSS out in the open.

Seems that all day Saturday and Sunday there were folks
showing up from al

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[DCFluX]

My first repeater back in 1996 or so was a Motorola Research Line all
tube 'coffin' eqquiped with a 'Sensicon G' receiver with ovened
crystals in both transmit and receive strips. Controlling that was a
CES Repeater Maker RM-10 with a custom built Voice IDer based on the
Radio Shack carried ISD-1000A voice recorder.

The repeater did not have a duplexer, only 2 band pass cavities. The
antennas were placed at the corners of a hotels tower for about 500
feet of horizontal seperation. The antennas were 2m Ringos, and there
was no desense.

The repeater was unpluged by one of the radio techs out of Vegas that
was blaming it for interfering with the hotels repeater, which was
still getting interference long after it was unpluged. But no dice,
they wanted it out of there so it was moved.

Later that summer  it was decided that the 'space heater' effect of
the repeater was no longer desirable it was replaced with 2 hand helds
and a GE MASTR-II power block. The coffin was gutted out, and had an
electric habachi installed to be transformed into the first Motorola
fish smoker.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[no6b]

At 8/5/2008 23:01, you wrote:

>Thanks for the cursory review Skip. I actually sent via the website a list 
>of about 6 specific questions about the SCOM 7330 .  Have NOT HEARD A 
>THING back from them which is most encouraging.  Perhaps they are going to 
>join the list of manufacturers who are going to go out of business.   They 
>are already acting like it.  - Mike

They must not have gotten your message, as I'm absolutely sure one of their 
staff would have immediately replied to your query.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[Brian]

Hey

My first controller consisted of a transistor and resistor connected to 
one of the terminals on the squelch
pot of a old crystal Regency radio for RX to TX PPT signal.  I had a cap 
between the audio out of the
RX radio to the mike input of the TX radio.

Hey, it worked...
It didn't have a lot of range without a duplexer though :)

The next controller I built used a Vic20 (remember those, still have some).

There was a board with an eprom on it that went into the 22/44 
connector.  The program on the
eprom started automatically.  There was a second board that had a 555 
timer and a PPT
transistor on it.  I figured as there was only going to be a few made I 
used the 555 instead
of creating the cw audio with an interrupt (more parts but less work).

If I wanted a timer time change or something I just got out the disk 
drive and monitor and burned
the new values on the eeprom.

I made one for myself and one for a friend of mine.  He ran his for over 
10 years until I provided
him with another single board prototype which he has been running for 
over 8 years.  Although
he hasn't had to use it he has kept the VIC20 as a backup.

The DTMF control came from a second board.  It was a DTMF decoder that 
had 10 outputs.
It was designed before the VIC20 controller.  It used a CD4067 and a SSI 
204 to latch / unlatch
and pulse outputs.  The output transistors were MPSA13's.  All the 
pulsing and
latching / unlatching features were one DTMF digit long.  I made two of 
these almost 20 years ago. 
One is still in use and the other is sitting on my shelf.

I have always had fun building repeaters and the controllers.

73
Brian
ka9pmm


skipp025 wrote:
>
> Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)
>
> > Mike Morris WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > My own experience is that owners prefer the one that
> > they had their first really positive experience with,
> > learned the ins and outs of, and are loath to change
> > due to the learning curve.
>
> Well... we don't mind changing when the new controller works
> well and has the features we want without an episode of "Punch
> the Clown Face" related to hardware problems, the software and
> user programming.
>
> > My first controller was programmed with solder - it drove
> > a tube-based 2m repeater receiver and transmitter so it had
> > a tube-based COR and PL decoder,
>
> Repeater Poker 2008
> I'll anti the pot and raise the blinds by guessing... Motorola
> Sensicon, Research Line GE Pre-Prog, GE Prog or even an RCA
> Carfone? You didn't have a Link or Allen B Dumont Repeater
> did you?
>
> > everything else was Agstat pneumatic time delay relays,
> > clock motor timers, and KRP DPDT and 3PDT relays. It had a
> > rotary dial (!) autopatch and a a 6m remote base.
>
> Raided some surplus electronics outlet..? maybe found a good
> deal or surplus commercial (tube-type) radio gear... even betta'
> the parts were free (donation)?
>
> > My second controller was another relay beast only it used
> > DIP relays, 555 timers, and TTL logic.
>
> And the 5 volt dc rail (by itself) easily drew more than one
> amp of current? Not to mention the heat...
>
> > My third was a home-brew wire-wrapped Z80 single board
> > computer that drove a crosspoint audio switch and ended up with
> > 27,000 lines of assembly code.
>
> See..! Those Radio Shack TRS-80 Model one computers did make
> great trainers after all. And all that wonderful RFI you had to
> hide/deal with.
>
> > Then I found ACC, Creative Control Products, Link and Scom, in
> > that order.
>
> ACC - Great stuff but expensive for the common man (person).
>
> Creative Control Products - Quirky and no fun to work with or
> operate. Their UAI boards were really funky to try and use...
>
> Link - Hardware for the most part ok fine... User software
> not so user friendly for the casual/new user.
>
> > The Scom family goes back through the MRC100 (about 1984),
>
> I have a working MRC-100 about to go up on Ebay. Great Controller!
>
> > the 5K, 6K, 7K and now the 7330. I've used the 5K, the 7K
> > and the 7330 and all are totally reliable. The random reset
> > problem I had was traced back to a bad solder joint in a
> > cable - not their problem, but at one point they were ready
> > to exchange the controller. I blew up a 7K by accidentally
> > shorting the +12 buss to the +5 buss, and Bob had it fully
> > operational, and back in my hands in a week. The 5K, 6K and
> > 7K are fully supported to this day. How many manufacturers
> > actually support their early products to that level?
>
> Not many early repeater controller mfgrs are still in business.
>
> > The 7330 is the newest (it's been in beta test since thanksgiving
> > and been in formal release for under 6 months) and the firmware
> > has not caught up with all of the hardware features (like the
> > A-to-D ports).
> >
> > The programming is straightforward. Some of the more advanced
> > features are not covered in the manual as well as they could, but
> > the boo

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[scomind]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the cursory review Skip. I actually sent via the website a list of 
about 6 specific questions about the SCOM 7330 .? Have NOT HEARD A THING back 
from them which is most encouraging.? Perhaps they are going to join the list 
of manufacturers who are going to go out of business.?? They are already acting 
like it.? - Mike

I'm sorry, but?I never got your message. I don't know why -- maybe the website 
message forwarding feature is broken. Send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED], or?go 
ahead and ask your questions?right here and?I'll answer?in front of?everybody.

We are definitely not going out of business. Why would we, with?cutting 
edge?FPGA?technology and?a brand new product? Besides, it's a part-time 
endeavor?involving 5?buddies who are EEs (four of whom are hams). We enjoy this 
stuff and count?our customers among our friends.?We're having fun.?No reasons 
to quit.

Look at the competitive controllers and see if maybe we've broken some new 
ground here. This is a technical forum and we should be enhancing the state of 
the art in amateur communications. While?I've never seen?much interest from 
our?competitors?in discussing the technical aspects of their controllers here, 
we're not shy about that sort of thing. Ask away.

73,
Bob, WA9FBO

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[Michael Ryan]

Thanks for the cursory review Skip. I actually sent via the website a list
of about 6 specific questions about the SCOM 7330 .  Have NOT HEARD A THING
back from them which is most encouraging.  Perhaps they are going to join
the list of manufacturers who are going to go out of business.   They are
already acting like it.  - Mike

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:00 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have
some fun)

 

Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun) 

> Mike Morris WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My own experience is that owners prefer the one that 
> they had their first really positive experience with, 
> learned the ins and outs of, and are loath to change 
> due to the learning curve.

Well... we don't mind changing when the new controller works 
well and has the features we want without an episode of "Punch 
the Clown Face" related to hardware problems, the software and 
user programming. 

> My first controller was programmed with solder - it drove 
> a tube-based 2m repeater receiver and transmitter so it had 
> a tube-based COR and PL decoder, 

Repeater Poker 2008
I'll anti the pot and raise the blinds by guessing... Motorola 
Sensicon, Research Line GE Pre-Prog, GE Prog or even an RCA 
Carfone? You didn't have a Link or Allen B Dumont Repeater 
did you? 

> everything else was Agstat pneumatic time delay relays,
> clock motor timers, and KRP DPDT and 3PDT relays. It had a 
> rotary dial (!) autopatch and a a 6m remote base. 

Raided some surplus electronics outlet..? maybe found a good 
deal or surplus commercial (tube-type) radio gear... even betta' 
the parts were free (donation)? 

> My second controller was another relay beast only it used 
> DIP relays, 555 timers, and TTL logic. 

And the 5 volt dc rail (by itself) easily drew more than one 
amp of current? Not to mention the heat... 

> My third was a home-brew wire-wrapped Z80 single board
> computer that drove a crosspoint audio switch and ended up with
> 27,000 lines of assembly code.

See..! Those Radio Shack TRS-80 Model one computers did make 
great trainers after all. And all that wonderful RFI you had to 
hide/deal with. 

> Then I found ACC, Creative Control Products, Link and Scom, in
> that order.

ACC - Great stuff but expensive for the common man (person). 

Creative Control Products - Quirky and no fun to work with or 
operate. Their UAI boards were really funky to try and use... 

Link - Hardware for the most part ok fine... User software 
not so user friendly for the casual/new user. 

> The Scom family goes back through the MRC100 (about 1984), 

I have a working MRC-100 about to go up on Ebay. Great Controller! 

> the 5K, 6K, 7K and now the 7330. I've used the 5K, the 7K 
> and the 7330 and all are totally reliable. The random reset 
> problem I had was traced back to a bad solder joint in a 
> cable - not their problem, but at one point they were ready 
> to exchange the controller. I blew up a 7K by accidentally 
> shorting the +12 buss to the +5 buss, and Bob had it fully 
> operational, and back in my hands in a week. The 5K, 6K and 
> 7K are fully supported to this day. How many manufacturers 
> actually support their early products to that level?

Not many early repeater controller mfgrs are still in business. 

> The 7330 is the newest (it's been in beta test since thanksgiving
> and been in formal release for under 6 months) and the firmware
> has not caught up with all of the hardware features (like the 
> A-to-D ports).
> 
> The programming is straightforward. Some of the more advanced
> features are not covered in the manual as well as they could, but
> the book is advancing just like the firmware is. On the other
> tentacle, there is a 650+ member yahoo groups mailing list that
> is full of helpful people, all of which have "been there , done 
> that".

... & have the Coffee Mug and Tee Shirt? 

> The S-COM Factory Supported email list is at:
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scom-controllers/join>
> What other manufacturer has the chief programmer reading
> the official list? 

I can think of at least four... probably at least one or two I 
don't know about yet. 

> When I first started programming the 7K I asked a few 
> questions (that in retrospect look really stupid)
> and I had an answer in under 12 hours. How is that for
> support?

About right most week-days during normal business hours... 

> Mike WA6ILQ

The format of the SCom 5K 6K & 7K controller user programming 
is pretty darn good. If the 7330 human interface is similar 
you will probably enjoy having one. 

cheers, 
s. 

 

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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[no6b]

At 8/5/2008 22:00, you wrote:

> > My second controller was another relay beast only it used
> > DIP relays, 555 timers, and TTL logic.
>
>And the 5 volt dc rail (by itself) easily drew more than one
>amp of current? Not to mention the heat...

I still have a controller in service that uses 74XX-series logic.  I 
believe it draws over 0.5 amps.  No relays.

Bob NO6B

[Repeater-Builder] Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun)

[skipp025]

Re: SCOM 7330 Experiences anyone? (let's have some fun) 

> Mike Morris WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My own experience is that owners prefer the one that 
> they had their first really positive experience with, 
> learned the ins and outs of, and are loath to change 
> due to the learning curve.

Well... we don't mind changing when the new controller works 
well and has the features we want without an episode of "Punch 
the Clown Face" related to hardware problems, the software and 
user programming. 

> My first controller was programmed with solder - it drove 
> a tube-based 2m repeater receiver and transmitter so it had 
> a tube-based COR and PL decoder, 

Repeater Poker 2008
I'll anti the pot and raise the blinds by guessing... Motorola 
Sensicon, Research Line GE Pre-Prog, GE Prog or even an RCA 
Carfone? You didn't have a Link or Allen B Dumont Repeater 
did you? 

> everything else was Agstat pneumatic time delay relays,
> clock motor timers, and KRP DPDT and 3PDT relays. It had a 
> rotary dial (!) autopatch and a a 6m remote base.  

Raided some surplus electronics outlet..? maybe found a good 
deal or surplus commercial (tube-type) radio gear... even betta' 
the parts were free (donation)? 

> My second controller was another relay beast only it used 
> DIP relays, 555 timers, and TTL logic. 

And the 5 volt dc rail (by itself) easily drew more than one 
amp of current? Not to mention the heat... 

> My third was a home-brew wire-wrapped Z80 single board
> computer that drove a crosspoint audio switch and ended up with
> 27,000 lines of assembly code.

See..! Those Radio Shack TRS-80 Model one computers did make 
great trainers after all. And all that wonderful RFI you had to 
hide/deal with. 
 
> Then I found ACC, Creative Control Products, Link and Scom, in
> that order.

ACC - Great stuff but expensive for the common man (person). 

Creative Control Products - Quirky and no fun to work with or 
operate. Their UAI boards were really funky to try and use... 

Link - Hardware for the most part ok fine... User software 
not so user friendly for the casual/new user. 

> The Scom family goes back through the MRC100 (about 1984), 

I have a working MRC-100 about to go up on Ebay. Great Controller! 

> the 5K, 6K, 7K and now the 7330.  I've used the 5K, the 7K 
> and the 7330 and all are totally reliable. The random reset 
> problem I had was traced back to a bad solder joint in a 
> cable - not their problem, but at one point they were ready 
> to exchange the controller. I blew up a 7K by accidentally 
> shorting the +12 buss to the +5 buss, and Bob had it fully 
> operational, and back in my hands in a week. The 5K, 6K and 
> 7K are fully supported to this day. How many manufacturers 
> actually support their early products to that level?

Not many early repeater controller mfgrs are still in business. 

> The 7330 is the newest (it's been in beta test since thanksgiving
> and been in formal release for under 6 months) and the firmware
> has not caught up with all of the hardware features (like the 
> A-to-D ports).
> 
> The programming is straightforward.  Some of the more advanced
> features are not covered in the manual as well as they could, but
> the book is advancing just like the firmware is.  On the other
> tentacle, there is a 650+ member yahoo groups mailing list that
> is full of helpful people, all of which have "been there , done 
> that".

... & have the Coffee Mug and Tee Shirt? 

> The S-COM Factory Supported email list is at:
> 
> What other manufacturer has the chief programmer reading
> the official list?  

I can think of at least four... probably at least one or two I 
don't know about yet. 

> When I first started programming the 7K I asked a few 
> questions (that in retrospect look really stupid)
> and I had an answer in under 12 hours.  How is that for
> support?

About right most week-days during normal business hours... 

> Mike WA6ILQ

The format of the SCom 5K 6K & 7K controller user programming 
is pretty darn good. If the 7330 human interface is similar 
you will probably enjoy having one. 

cheers, 
s.