[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed 
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only 
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would 
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of 
> multiple PAC-RTs, 

The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person 
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture 
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher. 

Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and 
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so 
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene 
coverage area. 

The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or 
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or 
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service) 
work.

> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts. 

Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid 
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer 
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also 
make them. 

Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special 
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit.  

> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters 
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-

The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables 
to interface to different radio models. You would normally 
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio 
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid 
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards 
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface 
with. 

> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure 
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it 
> only picked up local HT traffic. 

A target value of about 50uV (micro volts) RX Sensitivity 
was specified by a number of agencies. Two officers on each 
side of a freeway/highway should be able to operate independent 
of each other.

> If you have one you will find that in the first receiver
> stage-the ICOM and associated components, there are a number 
> of caps which have been left out in order to keep the 
> receiver deaf.
 
I've seen resistive pads and on board attenuators used to 
"numb up" the receiver front ends. They can be removed easy 
enough... 

> >  I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit 
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use 
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems, 

Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)

> > but the two would never really synch properly and there 
> > was always the drop out every few seconds that was only 
> > about a half second long but none the less annoying! 

That is the receiver listen window mentioned above... 

> > I think they have changed systems now and don't have 
> > this issue anymore.

Can be different sounding by design and programming... see 
the above text. 

> > Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you 
> > couldn't pay me enough to move back!

Plenty of work out here... minimum wage and all the pride 
you can swallow. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[George]

ok, now how to make it work for me? i have msf5000 working with my spectra and 
mts2000. does the mts2000 need to be programmed to work with the mtva, second: 
if i use another handheld GTX how do i program the mtva to work together with 
the mts2000 GTX and spectra so that the msf5000 can hear at least one of them. 
does the amplifier unt NTN1325B need to be programmed to work as repeater?

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> on the CA CHP system if you listen on 154.905 you will 
> clearly hear the beep as they exit their car

Called the "lock tone". 

> ...it is also a great way of keeping track of CHP cars 
> which are close to you since all of the traffic they 
> receive on their low-band radios is rebroadcast on the 
> 154.905 channel if they do not have their portable in 
> the charger and most don't 

Only when they are on scene... the GE Ranger mobile radio 
control head is programmed to send out beep tones when 
the "extender" (repeater) is enabled... so it's aurally 
obvious to the officer when the repeater is left on while 
they are inside the car. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> Andy, if I remember correctly I think the counter only 
> went to 10. After that well I would hope there were not 
> more that 10 officers at any one scene.
> Probably different is CA.
> David 

10 was the number put on paper by a few manufactures. 

The max vehicular repeater queue amount depended on who 
made the unit (brand) and the model. Some were factory 
4, factory 8, 10, 14 and I think one brand/model goes 
to 25. 

Most officers know to leave their extenders off if/when 
they pull up to a crowd of co-agency vehicles at an 
incident. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

> "Nate Duehr"  wrote:
> How did the units know when the officers left the scene?  
> By them putting the HT back in the charger I assume?
> 
> Pretty smart plan, actually.  Neat.
> 
> I take it if they forgot or tossed it on the seat when taking
> off, they could be cut off from comm until they stuffed it back
> in the charger, or was there a really long failsafe timer
> that would turn the micro-repeater back on?  I guess there
> probably couldn't be... or some day long event with multiple
> units, would certainly have the repeater's re-enabling
> themselves...?

Each vehicle repeater has a (random) internal counter, which 
generates and increases an internal queue number when it hears 
any arrival lock tone. Each units queue number is different 
than any other on scene co-channel operation (extender). 

All extender units listen to the same radio traffic... when the 
priority (highest queue number) unit travels out of range the 
other on scene units start their queue timer counting down 
when their receivers compare active versus missing radio traffic. 
The first extender "counting down" to reach the number one spot starts 
transmitting while the other higher number queue remain in 
standby/idle mode. 

Probably took some strong coffee and a pop-tart to figure that 
concept out... but it does work very well. 

s. 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[George]

ok guys...cut the bla...bla help is needed here:ok, now how to make it work for 
me? i have msf5000 working with my spectra and
mts2000. does the mts2000 need to be programmed to work with the mtva, second:
if i use another handheld GTX how do i program the mtva to work together with
the mts2000 GTX and spectra so that the msf5000 can hear at least one of them.
does the amplifier unt NTN1325B need to be programmed to work as repeater?

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH  wrote:
>
> Sounds like the squelch was open on the PAC if the dropout was 1/2 
> second. It should have only been about 50 mS (maybe less) and happen 
> every half second.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> Chris Robinson wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit odd until about 10 
> > years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a 
> > motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch 
> > properly and there was always the drop out every few seconds that was 
> > only about a half second long but none the less annoying! i think they 
> > have changed systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.
> > 
> >  Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me 
> > enough to move back!
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold 
> > mailto:aseyb...@...>> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater
> > which is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle,
> > when the officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and
> > the HT then talks through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This
> > was first done where the mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and
> > there were no good HTs available, CHP uses them on 154.905 for their
> > 42 MHz dispatch system
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Andy
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > ] *On Behalf Of *George
> > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle
> > and the control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF
> > TX-RX relay. i hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a
> > switch that says PAC-RT on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> > 05:58:00
> >
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[ka1jfy]

My agency's problem was a little different.

We operate on a conventional UHF repeater system.
At the time we had Micor mobiles.

Call would go out for a crash. 
First unit in would be taking to dispatch fine.
Pulls his portable and is talking to dispatch through the PAC-R/T and the radio 
in HIS car.
Second [3rd, 4th...] unit in would switch to talk-around to talk directly to 
the unit(s) on-scene.
When the second [3rd, 4th...] units would arrive and pull their portables from 
the charger, their unit would become the main one, and all portable traffic 
would be 'repeated' on the talk-around. 
Not great when you need to tell dispatch you need something.

WalterH

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mark"  wrote:
>
> That’s a typical problem with the PAC-RT and other mobile repeater 
> systems…
> 
>  
> 
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of dmur...@...
> 
> 
> Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State 
> Police. Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when 
> more than one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them 
> all PAC-RTs would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the 
> portable is removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs 
> set their counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the 
> scene and pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit 
> arrives and pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one 
> repeating.
> 
> David
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Tony De Angelo]

PAC-RT =  Portable Area Communications - Repeater

http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/manuals/PAC-RT-H13TTY3110A_68P81010C06-B.pdf

Tony

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[George]

thank you for the replay!
my question is: i have the cradle NTN1340C the mts2000 800mhz inside, NTN1325B 
unit with the power amplifier inside, the RF relay that switches between PTT of 
the microphone (TX-RX). now the cradle has a switch under the radio it says 
PAC-RT on and off...what does it mean for this setup? do i need another device 
to make it working as repeater, how to link it to a 800mhz spectra (if i 
needone) with this setup because the RSS for spectra have option for vehicle 
repeater, do i need to programm the device NTN1325B, do i need to program the 
mts2000 to work in the cradle as repeater, if i use a GTX how the GTX gets to 
work with the repeater. i also have MSF5000 working with all my devices and i'd 
like the msf5000 to hear the pac-rt (the vehicular repeater) working together 
with the spectra GTX and msf2000.
please keep on topic because i don't care what police department had what 
communications problems!





--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tony De Angelo  wrote:
>
> PAC-RT =  Portable Area Communications - Repeater
> 
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/manuals/PAC-RT-H13TTY3110A_68P81010C06-B.pdf
> 
> Tony
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[George]

thank you! that means that the setup has no repeater device built in. just a 
switch that enables external repeater (different device)


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Seybold"  wrote:
>
> George-I will let the Motorola guys on here answer most of your
> questions, I tend to stay on the GE side of things, however, the HT does
> not become a repeater when placed in the cradle, but a simple HT turned
> into a mobile, The HT's generally had a single channel in them, with PL,
> not sure about that one, the switch I believe you will find was supposed
> to enable and disable the PAC-RT that was attached to a different mobile
> radio mounted in the trunk and with a control head up front, therefore
> the combination you have should work as an HT and also as a mobile with
> amp but not as a repeater.
> 
>  
> 
> Hope this helps a little
> 
>  
> 
> Andy
> 
>  
> 
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:22 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> thank you for the replay!
> my question is: i have the cradle NTN1340C the mts2000 800mhz inside,
> NTN1325B unit with the power amplifier inside, the RF relay that
> switches between PTT of the microphone (TX-RX). now the cradle has a
> switch under the radio it says PAC-RT on and off...what does it mean for
> this setup? do i need another device to make it working as repeater, how
> to link it to a 800mhz spectra (if i needone) with this setup because
> the RSS for spectra have option for vehicle repeater, do i need to
> programm the device NTN1325B, do i need to program the mts2000 to work
> in the cradle as repeater, if i use a GTX how the GTX gets to work with
> the repeater. i also have MSF5000 working with all my devices and i'd
> like the msf5000 to hear the pac-rt (the vehicular repeater) working
> together with the spectra GTX and msf2000.
> please keep on topic because i don't care what police department had
> what communications problems!
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> , Tony De Angelo
>  wrote:
> >
> > PAC-RT = Portable Area Communications - Repeater
> > 
> >
> http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/manuals/PAC-RT-H13TTY3110A_68P8
> 1010C06-B.pdf
> > 
> > Tony
> >
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

Re: what pac-rt means 

> "George"  wrote:
> thank you! that means that the setup has no repeater 
> device built in. just a switch that enables external 
> repeater (different device)

Yes, and in some cases the switch is an option on the 
main radio, Convertacom or via a plane-jane switch mounted 
on a panel. The actual extender (repeater) lives in the 
trunk or under the seat near the main radio chassis (unless 
you have a dash mount radio). The extender hardware is 
most often within 6 to 8 feet of the main radio chassis, 
where ever it is... 

And the extender - vehicle repeater is not a true duplex 
stand alone box. The extender is actually just a specialized 
half duplex (normal) transceiver, when connected to the "main 
radio" operates with... in duplex operation.  And the 
resultant duplex (repeat) is from both the extender and main 
radio (and can be the same or cross band). 

In the early days... 
T'was hard for many mfgrs to make an in-band (same band) 
extender work well with some difficult frequency parings. 
Using different frequency ranges ("bands") for the extender 
solves/solved a lot of the in-band desense issues. 

But in-band extenders work very well if you have the right 
frequency spacing and RF Cavity Filtering (protection) in 
place. 

s.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[George]

thank you for the useful info!
i guess i can make my own vehicular repeater from two spectras and a portable 
duplexer...thank you very much!



--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "skipp025"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Re: what pac-rt means 
> 
> > "George"  wrote:
> > thank you! that means that the setup has no repeater 
> > device built in. just a switch that enables external 
> > repeater (different device)
> 
> Yes, and in some cases the switch is an option on the 
> main radio, Convertacom or via a plane-jane switch mounted 
> on a panel. The actual extender (repeater) lives in the 
> trunk or under the seat near the main radio chassis (unless 
> you have a dash mount radio). The extender hardware is 
> most often within 6 to 8 feet of the main radio chassis, 
> where ever it is... 
> 
> And the extender - vehicle repeater is not a true duplex 
> stand alone box. The extender is actually just a specialized 
> half duplex (normal) transceiver, when connected to the "main 
> radio" operates with... in duplex operation.  And the 
> resultant duplex (repeat) is from both the extender and main 
> radio (and can be the same or cross band). 
> 
> In the early days... 
> T'was hard for many mfgrs to make an in-band (same band) 
> extender work well with some difficult frequency parings. 
> Using different frequency ranges ("bands") for the extender 
> solves/solved a lot of the in-band desense issues. 
> 
> But in-band extenders work very well if you have the right 
> frequency spacing and RF Cavity Filtering (protection) in 
> place. 
> 
> s.
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[skipp025]

Probably better I not disclose too much... but some 
extenders are "always listening" and a certain sequence 
of the right codes and activity on the extender's portable 
will remotely enable (turn on) the extender operation. 

The Officer/Operator can enable the extender/repeater unit 
from a remote location using just the portable and the 
right information.

As mentioned before... a courtesy tone beeping back at 
the control head tells the returning Officer the extender 
package is still enabled. And of course it's not easy 
to drive down the road with the control head beeping the 
extender on tone every few seconds. 

No additional hardware/wiring required and the anytime 
remote enable feature works very well, but it wasn't installed 
on all brands & models of extenders (vehicle repeaters). 

In Pyramid SVR Extenders... it's simply done in software. 

cheers, 
s. 

> MCH  wrote:
> Actually, I would prefer the park/neutral safety 
> switch, as the door could be opened then closed to 
> spit or something, and the VRS would be activated.

> This is unless they always left the door open when 
> they were out of the vehicle (a safety issue).
> Joe M.

> > Milt wrote:
> > Nice, and easier than the app where the PAC or 
> > VRS was wired to the PARK switch on the vehicle 
> > transmission.
> > Milt
> > N3LTQ
> > 

> > > From: "wd8chl" 
> > > OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' 
> > > problem by wiring the switch to the dome light switch, 
> > > I think through some sort of flip-flop.
> > > When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went 
> > > into repeat. Close the door. Get back in vehicle again, 
> > > it goes out of repeat. I think there was more to it, 
> > > too. I know there was also a manual switch on the
> > > console...

[Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[kb5zxm]

PAC RT  mean JOB SECURITY for radio repair techs ! 

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chris Robinson  wrote:
>
> I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit odd until about 10
> years ago. For a while they would use the GE system in the car and a
> motorola for other systems, but the two would never really synch properly
> and there was always the drop out every few seconds that was only about a
> half second long but none the less annoying! i think they have changed
> systems now and odnt have this issue anymore.
> 
>  Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you couldnt pay me enough
> to move back!
> 
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Andrew Seybold  > wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >  Pac-rt or Pack Rats are they are called, is a low-powered repeater which
> > is tied to the main mobile radio in a police or fire vehicle, when the
> > officier leaves the vehicle he normally takes the HT, and the HT then talks
> > through the PAC-RT back to the base station. This was first done where the
> > mobile units were low band (30-50 MHz) and there were no good HTs available,
> > CHP uses them on 154.905 for their 42 MHz dispatch system
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> > repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *George
> > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 9:57 AM
> > *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] what pac-rt means
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > i have MTVA converta-com 800mhz with the mts2000 inside the cradle and the
> > control unit NTN1325B has amplifier in it and switching RF TX-RX relay. i
> > hear it clicking between PTT. now the cradle has a switch that says PAC-RT
> > on and off. what does this do? (no manual)
> >
> >   
> >
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Andrew Seybold]

Correct—David and it DID work  ONLY when they keep their radios in the 
charger—on the CA CHP system if you listen on 154.905 you will clearly hear the 
beep as they exit their car—it is also a great way of keeping track of CHP cars 
which are close to you since all of the traffic they receive on their low-band 
radios is rebroadcast on the 154.905 channel if they do not have their portable 
in the charger and most don’t.

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

 

  

Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State Police. 
Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when more than 
one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them all PAC-RTs 
would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the portable is 
removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs set their 
counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the scene and 
pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit arrives and 
pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one repeating.


David


Oct 23, 2009 06:21:21 PM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote:

  



> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed 
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only 
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would 
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of 
> multiple PAC-RTs, 

The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person 
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture 
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher. 

Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and 
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so 
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene 
coverage area. 

The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or 
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or 
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service) 
work.

> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts. 

Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid 
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer 
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also 
make them. 

Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special 
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit. 

> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters 
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-

The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables 
to interface to different radio models. You would normally 
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio 
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid 
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards 
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface 
with. 

> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure 
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it 
> only picked up local HT traffic. 

A target value of about 50uV (micro volts) RX Sensitivity 
was specified by a number of agencies. Two officers on each 
side of a freeway/highway should be able to operate independent 
of each other.

> If you have one you will find that in the first receiver
> stage-the ICOM and associated components, there are a number 
> of caps which have been left out in order to keep the 
> receiver deaf.

I've seen resistive pads and on board attenuators used to 
"numb up" the receiver front ends. They can be removed easy 
enough... 

> > I always found their selection of radios to be a bit 
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use 
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems, 

Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)

> > but the two would never really synch properly and there 
> > was always the drop out every few seconds that was only 
> > about a half second long but none the less annoying! 

That is the receiver listen window mentioned above... 

> > I think they have changed systems now 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Nate Duehr]

How did the units know when the officers left the scene?  By them
putting the HT back in the charger I assume?

Pretty smart plan, actually.  Neat.

I take it if they forgot or tossed it on the seat when taking
off, they could be cut off from comm until they stuffed it back
in the charger, or was there a really long failsafe timer
that would turn the micro-repeater back on?  I guess there
probably couldn't be... or some day long event with multiple
units, would certainly have the repeater's re-enabling
themselves...?
--
  Nate Duehr
  n...@natetech.com


On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:28 -0500, dmur...@verizon.net wrote:


Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the
State Police. Most of the officers did not put the portable in
the charger so when more than one officer arrived on the scene
and took their portables with them all PAC-RTs would transmit
when the officer would key his portable. When the portable is
removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs
set their counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to
arrive on the scene and pull his portable form the charger would
repeat. If another unit arrives and pulls the portable from the
charger that one is now the one repeating.
David
Oct 23, 2009 06:21:21 PM, [1]repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.
com wrote:


> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of
> multiple PAC-RTs,
The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher.
Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene
coverage area.
The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service)
work.
> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts.
Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also
make them.
Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit.
> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-
The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables
to interface to different radio models. You would normally
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface
with.
> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it
> only picked up local HT traffic.
A target value of about 50uV (micro volts) RX Sensitivity
was specified by a number of agencies. Two officers on each
side of a freeway/highway should be able to operate independent
of each other.
> If you have one you will find that in the first receiver
> stage-the ICOM and associated components, there are a number
> of caps which have been left out in order to keep the
> receiver deaf.
I've seen resistive pads and on board attenuators used to
"numb up" the receiver front ends. They can be removed easy
enough...
> > I always found their selection of radios to be a bit
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems,
Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)
> > but the two would never really synch properly and there
> > was always the drop out every few seconds that was only
> > about a half second long but none the less annoying!
That is the receiver listen window mentioned above...
> > I think they have changed systems now and don't have
> > this issue anymore.
Can be different sounding by design and programming.
.. see
the above text.
> > Oh how I use to miss the days of California, now you
> > couldn't pay me enough to move back!
Plenty of work out here... minimum wage and all the pride
you can swallow.
s.




References

1. mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
2. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/message/95174;_ylc=X3oDMTM1MDhvY21kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEbXNnSWQDOTUxODIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjU2MzIyNDk0BHRwY0lkAzk1MTc0
3. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwMmJuOW81BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEbXNnSWQDOTUxODIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjU2MzIyNDk0?act=reply&messageNum=95182
4. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaDVoaGVkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRz

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Mark]

Skipp's statement can also be rephrased as "you're life depends on low
bid"...

Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of skipp025

--- (snippage) ---

> >  I always found  their selection of radios to be a bit 
> > odd until about 10 years ago. For a while they would use 
> > the GE system in the car and a Motorola for other systems, 

Government Public Safety (an oxymoron)

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Mark]

That’s a typical problem with the PAC-RT and other mobile repeater systems…

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net


Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State Police. 
Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when more than 
one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them all PAC-RTs 
would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the portable is 
removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs set their 
counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the scene and 
pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit arrives and 
pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one repeating.

David



 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Eric Lemmon]

Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
off-topic into how it works and how it's used.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[wd8chl]

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Can't tell what it means without describing how it works...


OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the 
switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop. 
When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close 
the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think 
there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the 
console...

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Eric Lemmon]

I'm guessing that the "AC" stands for "Area Coverage" but I'd like to know
what the "P" "R" and "T" mean. 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:39 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

  

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question? I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means. Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Can't tell what it means without describing how it works...

OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the 
switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop. 
When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close 
the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think 
there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the 
console...

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Chuck Kelsey]

He wanted to know what it did, not what it stood for.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "wd8chl" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means


> Eric Lemmon wrote:
>> Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
>> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
>> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
>> 
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[MCH]

It was my first reply.

Joe M.

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question?  I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means.  Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> 05:58:00
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Butch Kanvick]

Portable Area Coverage-Receiver Transmitter
I think I read this on the Motrola sales literture at one time.

 

I hope everyone has a wonderful weeekend.

 

Butch, KE7FEL/r 


To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: wb6...@verizon.net
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:47:15 -0700
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

  



I'm guessing that the "AC" stands for "Area Coverage" but I'd like to know
what the "P" "R" and "T" mean. 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wd8chl
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 2:39 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> Has anyone answered the original poster's question? I believe that he
> wanted to know what the term "PAC-RT" means. Somehow, this thread got
> off-topic into how it works and how it's used.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Can't tell what it means without describing how it works...

OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the 
switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop. 
When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close 
the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think 
there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the 
console...








  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Andrew Seybold]

George-I will let the Motorola guys on here answer most of your
questions, I tend to stay on the GE side of things, however, the HT does
not become a repeater when placed in the cradle, but a simple HT turned
into a mobile, The HT's generally had a single channel in them, with PL,
not sure about that one, the switch I believe you will find was supposed
to enable and disable the PAC-RT that was attached to a different mobile
radio mounted in the trunk and with a control head up front, therefore
the combination you have should work as an HT and also as a mobile with
amp but not as a repeater.

 

Hope this helps a little

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:22 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

 

  

thank you for the replay!
my question is: i have the cradle NTN1340C the mts2000 800mhz inside,
NTN1325B unit with the power amplifier inside, the RF relay that
switches between PTT of the microphone (TX-RX). now the cradle has a
switch under the radio it says PAC-RT on and off...what does it mean for
this setup? do i need another device to make it working as repeater, how
to link it to a 800mhz spectra (if i needone) with this setup because
the RSS for spectra have option for vehicle repeater, do i need to
programm the device NTN1325B, do i need to program the mts2000 to work
in the cradle as repeater, if i use a GTX how the GTX gets to work with
the repeater. i also have MSF5000 working with all my devices and i'd
like the msf5000 to hear the pac-rt (the vehicular repeater) working
together with the spectra GTX and msf2000.
please keep on topic because i don't care what police department had
what communications problems!

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> , Tony De Angelo
 wrote:
>
> PAC-RT = Portable Area Communications - Repeater
> 
>
http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/manuals/PAC-RT-H13TTY3110A_68P8
1010C06-B.pdf
> 
> Tony
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[MCH]

Exactly.

Joe M.

George wrote:
> thank you! that means that the setup has no repeater device built in. just a 
> switch that enables external repeater (different device)
> 
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Seybold"  
> wrote:
>> George-I will let the Motorola guys on here answer most of your
>> questions, I tend to stay on the GE side of things, however, the HT does
>> not become a repeater when placed in the cradle, but a simple HT turned
>> into a mobile, The HT's generally had a single channel in them, with PL,
>> not sure about that one, the switch I believe you will find was supposed
>> to enable and disable the PAC-RT that was attached to a different mobile
>> radio mounted in the trunk and with a control head up front, therefore
>> the combination you have should work as an HT and also as a mobile with
>> amp but not as a repeater.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hope this helps a little
>>
>>  
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>  
>>
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George
>> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 7:22 AM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means
>>
>>  
>>
>>   
>>
>> thank you for the replay!
>> my question is: i have the cradle NTN1340C the mts2000 800mhz inside,
>> NTN1325B unit with the power amplifier inside, the RF relay that
>> switches between PTT of the microphone (TX-RX). now the cradle has a
>> switch under the radio it says PAC-RT on and off...what does it mean for
>> this setup? do i need another device to make it working as repeater, how
>> to link it to a 800mhz spectra (if i needone) with this setup because
>> the RSS for spectra have option for vehicle repeater, do i need to
>> programm the device NTN1325B, do i need to program the mts2000 to work
>> in the cradle as repeater, if i use a GTX how the GTX gets to work with
>> the repeater. i also have MSF5000 working with all my devices and i'd
>> like the msf5000 to hear the pac-rt (the vehicular repeater) working
>> together with the spectra GTX and msf2000.
>> please keep on topic because i don't care what police department had
>> what communications problems!
>>
>> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> , Tony De Angelo
>>  wrote:
>>> PAC-RT = Portable Area Communications - Repeater
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/manuals/PAC-RT-H13TTY3110A_68P8
>> 1010C06-B.pdf
>>> Tony
>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> 05:58:00
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Milt]

Nice, and easier than the app where the PAC or VRS was wired to the PARK 
switch on the vehicle transmission.

Milt
N3LTQ

- Original Message - 
From: "wd8chl" 
To: off-topic into how it works and how 
it's used.
>
> OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the
> switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop.
> When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close
> the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think
> there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the
> console...
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[MCH]

Actually, I would prefer the parn/neutral safety switch, as the door 
could be opened then closed to spit or something, and the VRS would be 
activated.

This is unless they always left the door open when they were out of the 
vehicle (a safety issue).

Joe M.

Milt wrote:
> Nice, and easier than the app where the PAC or VRS was wired to the PARK 
> switch on the vehicle transmission.
> 
> Milt
> N3LTQ
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "wd8chl" 
> To: off-topic into how it works and how 
> it's used.
>> OH Turnpike solved the 'radio not in the charger' problem by wiring the
>> switch to the dome light switch, I think through some sort of flip-flop.
>> When the officer stepped out of the vehicle, it went into repeat. Close
>> the door. Get back in vehicle again, it goes out of repeat. I think
>> there was more to it, too. I know there was also a manual switch on the
>> console...
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.38/2274 - Release Date: 07/31/09 
> 05:58:00
> 

RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

[Andrew Seybold]

David—searching my memory but believe you are correct, I know that there was a 
limit

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:44 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

 

  

Andy, if I remember correctly I think the counter only went to 10. After that 
well I would hope there were not more that 10 officers at any one scene.
Probably different is CA.



David


Oct 23, 2009 06:34:43 PM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote:

  

Correct—David and it DID work  ONLY when they keep their radios in the 
charger—on the CA CHP system if you listen on 154.905 you will clearly hear the 
beep as they exit their car—it is also a great way of keeping track of CHP cars 
which are close to you since all of the traffic they receive on their low-band 
radios is rebroadcast on the 154.905 channel if they do not have their portable 
in the charger and most don’t.

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmur...@verizon.net
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 11:28 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: what pac-rt means

 

  

Had a problem with the PAC-RTs when I worked in Virginia for the State 
Police. Most of the officers did not put the portable in the charger so when 
more than one officer arrived on the scene and took their portables with them 
all PAC-RTs would transmit when the officer would key his portable. When the 
portable is removed from the charger a tone is emitted to let other PAC-RTs set 
their counters so they do not repeat. Only the last one to arrive on the scene 
and pull his portable form the charger would repeat. If another unit arrives 
and pulls the portable from the charger that one is now the one repeating.


David


Oct 23, 2009 06:21:21 PM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote: 
<mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com> 

  <mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com> 



> Just to be clear the "drop" is planned, it is designed 
> so that when multiple cars are on the same scene only 
> one of them has a PAC-RT in operation, otherwise it would 
> be a zoo-so the drop is really the synchronization of 
> multiple PAC-RTs, 

The drop is a receiver "sample window" to allow the person 
(officer) with the portable the ability to quickly capture 
the return path (transmitter control) back to the dispatcher. 

Multiple "vehicular repeaters" listen for both activity and 
tones/codes to setup and maintain a queue of operation so 
only one repeater responds within a very local on scene 
coverage area. 

The sample and priority window values can be adjusted or 
disabled if you only have one unit for personal use or 
don't expect to use it for fast reply (emergency service) 
work.

> ..the CHP, and Nevada used to use PAC-Rts. 

Pac-RT is the Motorola Name, GE made a version and Pyramid 
currently makes and sells them. (of course I'm a Dealer 
for Pyramid). I'm told Vertex and probably Icom also 
make them. 

Most of the current CHP vehicles use the GE or a special 
Pyramid (clone of the GE) unit. 

> Also, today you can find a lot of the mobile repeaters 
> around-and they make good portable repeaters-

The Motorola and GE repeaters have specific special cables 
to interface to different radio models. You would normally 
need the proper cable and in some cases a matching radio 
with the corresponding control/interface circuit. The Pyramid 
and newer brand repeaters are much more generic in regards 
to the different radio brands/models they work/interface 
with. 

> HOWEVER, most of them, at least the GE ones, made sure 
> that the receiver sensitivity was very poor so that it 
> only picked up local HT traffic. 

A target value of about 50u