Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Chuck Kelsey]

That's what I remember too, except that when you adjusted 
the brightness, you did it on an unused high band channel, then switch to the 
lowest unused low band channel and watch. The lightning gives the characteristic 
"band flashes" on the screen. The tornado supposedly produced a constant barrage 
of static.
 
Chuck
WB2EDV
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Micheal Salem 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:49 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER 
  RELATED STATIC
  From tornado alley in Norman, Oklahoma: I remember 
  reading many years ago about a technique of placing yourtelevision on an 
  unused channel and darkening the television with the brightness.  A 
  nearby tornado would be indicated if the screen brightened.  I 
  probably should Google this before saying more. Obviously this does 
  not work on cable.  Micheal Salem N5MSmch wrote:
  Are you sure it's not just causing some odd
propagation and they are seeing a distant station?

Joe M.

Joe wrote:
  
 I've heard stories of people in the tornado areas watching an unused TV channel in their area.  Tornados supposedly generate noise in the lower channels that you can see and identify as a tornado on TV.

Joe

 Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  
Hasn't tornado winds been documented to generate broadband RF noise
primarily in the VHF region?
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Dave VanHorn]

At 12:59 AM 6/11/2005, mch wrote:
>Are you sure it's not just causing some odd
>propagation and they are seeing a distant station?

Maybe the reverse of that. Brightening indicates less signal in analog TV. 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[John J. Riddell]

Michael, I  read that as well,  and it 
was channel 2 that was indicated and of course you 
must be on an outside antenna. As I recall the 
tornado created quite an electro-magnetic
field around 54 - 60 Mhz. (Ch 2)
 
73 John VE3AMZ

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Micheal Salem 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:49 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER 
  RELATED STATIC
  From tornado alley in Norman, Oklahoma: I remember 
  reading many years ago about a technique of placing yourtelevision on an 
  unused channel and darkening the television with the brightness.  A 
  nearby tornado would be indicated if the screen brightened.  I 
  probably should Google this before saying more. Obviously this does 
  not work on cable.  Micheal Salem N5MSmch wrote:
  Are you sure it's not just causing some odd
propagation and they are seeing a distant station?

Joe M.

Joe wrote:
  
 I've heard stories of people in the tornado areas watching an unused TV channel in their area.  Tornados supposedly generate noise in the lower channels that you can see and identify as a tornado on TV.

Joe

 Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  
Hasn't tornado winds been documented to generate broadband RF noise
primarily in the VHF region?
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Micheal Salem]

>From tornado alley in Norman, Oklahoma: 

I remember reading many years ago about a technique of placing your
television on an unused channel and darkening the television with 
the brightness.  A nearby tornado would be indicated if the screen 
brightened.  I probably should Google this before saying more. 

Obviously this does not work on cable.  

Micheal Salem N5MS


mch wrote:

  Are you sure it's not just causing some odd
propagation and they are seeing a distant station?

Joe M.

Joe wrote:
  
  
 I've heard stories of people in the tornado areas watching an unused TV channel in their area.  Tornados supposedly generate noise in the lower channels that you can see and identify as a tornado on TV.

Joe

 Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


  
Hasn't tornado winds been documented to generate broadband RF noise
primarily in the VHF region?

  


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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[mch]

Are you sure it's not just causing some odd
propagation and they are seeing a distant station?

Joe M.

Joe wrote:
> 
>  I've heard stories of people in the tornado areas watching an unused TV 
> channel in their area.  Tornados supposedly generate noise in the lower 
> channels that you can see and identify as a tornado on TV.
> 
> Joe
> 
>  Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Hasn't tornado winds been documented to generate broadband RF noise
> > >primarily in the VHF region?
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Dave VanHorn]

At 06:19 PM 6/10/2005, Joe wrote:
>  I've heard stories of people in the tornado areas watching an 
> unused TV channel in their area.  Tornados supposedly generate 
> noise in the lower channels that you can see and identify as a tornado on TV.

Despite the skeptics, it's well documented, and predates cable, and 
"the weather channel".







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Joe]

 I've heard stories of people in the tornado areas watching an unused TV 
channel in their area.  Tornados supposedly generate noise in the lower 
channels that you can see and identify as a tornado on TV.

Joe

 Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> >Hasn't tornado winds been documented to generate broadband RF noise
> >primarily in the VHF region?





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Dave VanHorn]

>
>Hasn't tornado winds been documented to generate broadband RF noise
>primarily in the VHF region?

Yes, and I've seen it in person. Also the other phenomena in santa 
ana winds, in Costa Mesa and Anaheim CA.
At times, the static was so bad that I couldn't hear the high profile 
repeaters on my HT.





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Dexter McIntyre W4DEX]

Dave VanHorn wrote:

If you've not seen what happens in southern CA with the Santa Ana 
winds, you'd never believe it.
AMAZING levels of noise right across the VHF spectrum.
AFAIK, not much you can do about
that.


Kevin Custer wrote:

> Charged particles of dust, rain, snow, or anything else banging into 
> each other doesn't create a problem, it's when they discharge on the 
> antenna that creates the problem.
>
> Kevin Custer

Hasn't tornado winds been documented to generate broadband RF noise 
primarily in the VHF region?

Dex





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Kevin Custer]

Correct.  The Static Buster adds but 1/4 inch of 'metal' to the element 
in the form of the attachment screw.  This added 1/4 inch of metal to 
the outer diameter of the element loop doesn't disturb the resonance, 
especially on anything including UHF and below.  Sure, 1/4 inch is a big 
deal on 2.4 GHz, but not on 2M, 220, or 440.

Likewise, the added 1/4 inch on the upper most element of a 
stationmaster doesn't de-tune it either.  The upper most element in a 
colinear is the least important where radiation and tuning effects are 
concerned.

Kevin

mch wrote:

>And they don't change the resonnant frequency at all?
>(installing them on each lobe of a dipole antenna)
>
>Joe M.
>
>Kevin Custer wrote:
>  
>
>>TGundo 2003 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>hERE IS A SILLY QUESTION:
>>>
>>>Where would you want to mount a static buster on a 4-bay antenna? On
>>>the top of the mast? I looked at the mounting instructions and that is
>>>the conclusion I have come too, but I could be way off.
>>>  
>>>
>>The best result I have documented is to install a one Static Buster on
>>the tip, and one on the top end of each element.  While this is a bit
>>more expensive than one on the tip, better results are obtained.
>>
>>One on the tip of a stationmaster type is sufficient.
>>
>>Kevin Custer
>>




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[mch]

And they don't change the resonnant frequency at all?
(installing them on each lobe of a dipole antenna)

Joe M.

Kevin Custer wrote:
> 
> TGundo 2003 wrote:
> 
> > hERE IS A SILLY QUESTION:
> >
> > Where would you want to mount a static buster on a 4-bay antenna? On
> > the top of the mast? I looked at the mounting instructions and that is
> > the conclusion I have come too, but I could be way off.
> 
> The best result I have documented is to install a one Static Buster on
> the tip, and one on the top end of each element.  While this is a bit
> more expensive than one on the tip, better results are obtained.
> 
> One on the tip of a stationmaster type is sufficient.
> 
> Kevin Custer





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Kevin Custer]

TGundo 2003 wrote:

> hERE IS A SILLY QUESTION:
>  
> Where would you want to mount a static buster on a 4-bay antenna? On 
> the top of the mast? I looked at the mounting instructions and that is 
> the conclusion I have come too, but I could be way off.


The best result I have documented is to install a one Static Buster on 
the tip, and one on the top end of each element.  While this is a bit 
more expensive than one on the tip, better results are obtained.

One on the tip of a stationmaster type is sufficient.

Kevin Custer




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Kevin Custer]

Dave VanHorn wrote:
At 06:51 PM 6/8/2005, Kevin Custer wrote:
  Dave VanHorn wrote: 

  If you've not seen what happens in southern CA with the Santa Ana 
winds, you'd never believe it.
AMAZING levels of noise right across the VHF spectrum.
AFAIK, not much you can do about
that.


Yes you can


<
http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/static.html
>
  
  
Antenna static yes, but you also get noise from the dust particles (or
raindrops) banging into each other, and into other things, which
happens
at some distance from the antenna.

Charged particles of dust, rain, snow, or anything else banging into
each other doesn't create a problem, it's when they discharge on the
antenna that creates the problem. 

Kevin Custer














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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Mike/k1eg]

Just a thought but have you tried replacing your lightning 
protectors?
 
Mike

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 4:31 
  PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER 
  RELATED STATIC
  
  Let's talk about static!  Hi everybody!
   
  I'm experiencing high static levels in our repeater that appears to 
  develop ahead and during serve weather outbreaks. Other times it seems 
  perfectly fine.
   
  Could be precipitation static?  Wind bouncing the antenna 
  around?  Internal grounding problems? 
   
  A couple of weeks ago we found that water had gotten into the 1/2 
  hardline (Andrew) We replaced the heliax, and have a great standing wave on 
  the antenna and are looking for some ideas on this.
   
  What do we got?  40 watt Micor Repeater, 4 pole antenna (yes, 
  its getting old)! SCOM 7K, Sinclair hybrid ring duplexers.
   
  Any Ideas? Have any questions?
  Thanks All!
  Brian, WD9HSY
  
  

  No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG 
  Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 
  6/8/2005













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Dave VanHorn]

At 07:25 PM 6/8/2005, TGundo 2003 wrote:
>hERE IS A SILLY QUESTION:
>
>Where would you want to mount a static buster on a 4-bay antenna? On 
>the top of the mast? I looked at the mounting instructions and that 
>is the conclusion I have come too, but I could be way off.
>

Seems right..

This would help in the case of an approaching thunderstorm, where the 
charged leaders are beginning to form.
The idea seems to be to make it easier to form the leaders, so they 
happen at lower voltages, and lower total energy per "spark".

I've seen this effect on my car radio at times, it's a good 
indication that it's time to be somewhere else.

If you ever get it, you'll know it, and there's NO doubt. LOUD 
Screeching from every radio, and if you're outside the vehicle at 
night, you'll see brush discharges from the antenna tips.






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[TGundo 2003]

hERE IS A SILLY QUESTION:
 
Where would you want to mount a static buster on a 4-bay antenna? On the top of the mast? I looked at the mounting instructions and that is the conclusion I have come too, but I could be way off.
 
Tom
 
W9SRVMike Morris WA6ILQ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 02:31 PM 6/8/05, you wrote:>Let's talk about static! Hi everybody!>>I'm experiencing high static levels in our repeater that appears to >develop ahead and during serve weather outbreaks. Other times it seems >perfectly fine.>>Could be precipitation static? Wind bouncing the antenna >around? Internal grounding problems?>>A couple of weeks ago we found that water had gotten into the 1/2 hardline >(Andrew) We replaced the heliax, and have a great standing wave on the >antenna and are looking for some ideas on this.>>What do we got? 40 watt Micor Repeater, 4 pole antenna (yes, its getting >old)! SCOM 7K, Sinclair hybrid ring duplexers.>>Any Ideas? Have any questions?>Thanks All!>Brian, WD9HSYFirst make sure that the antenna is bonded to the
 tower and the toweris bonded to the ground rod system and the repeater is bonded to theground system.Then go to and scroll down to "Antennas" and look at the article on precipitation static.A "static buster" might be just what you need.MikeYahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
		Discover Yahoo! 
Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out!













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Dave VanHorn]

At 06:51 PM 6/8/2005, Kevin Custer wrote:
Dave VanHorn wrote: 


If you've not seen what happens in southern CA with the Santa Ana 
winds, you'd never believe it.
AMAZING levels of noise right across the VHF spectrum.
AFAIK, not much you can do about
that.
Yes you can

<
http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/static.html
>

Antenna static yes, but you also get noise from the dust particles (or
raindrops) banging into each other, and into other things, which happens
at some distance from the antenna. 













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Kevin Custer]

Dave VanHorn wrote:

  
If you've not seen what happens in southern CA with the Santa Ana 
winds, you'd never believe it.
AMAZING levels of noise right across the VHF spectrum.
AFAIK, not much you can do about that.


Yes you can



Kevin














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RE: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Rich Garcia]

Another thing to keep in mind is what type 
of support is it? I remember many years ago noise bursts would show up soon 
after rain when we had a bit of wind on a local VHF repeater, it ended up as the 
used connector they had installed on the 7/8th and of course on the top side. 
This is in FL where wind induced static is very uncomon, we get the real stuff 
in the way of lighting every summer day.
 
In another instance in the NE we had static 
show up when it got windy. While we were painting the tower and someone was 
talking on the machine it got really bad, bingo...the tower sections had a 
bit of corrosion building up between them and the bolts needed a bit of 
torquing. The corrosion in the legs was acting as a diode and 
with movement it behaved as a spark gap transmitter and just as wide! 
 It was 50ft of 45G freestanding on a 2400ft Mtn so disassembly 
and cleanup was a simple club project. Ever since then I have used No-Ox on 
all of my tower sections during installation. 
 
If it's a really bad case and you do find 
the problem to be the tower sections pieces of braded strap between each section 
with a good solid connection may help.
 
Rich

  -Original Message-From: 
  Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 5:49 
  PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: 
  [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC
  DESCRIBE THE STATIC..
   
  Maybe static is the wrong word... Its more like loss of signal, like 
  mobiles becoming HT's and HT's without antennas!
   
  Like the receiver wants to hide ... (Hi, Hi)
   
  My only concern about wind vibration is that the antenna hasn't been 
  played with.  We have windy days, but it's much worst during weather 
  outbreaks! No where near as bad as just a windy day.
   
  Thanks all!
  Brian













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 02:31 PM 6/8/05, you wrote:

>Let's talk about static!  Hi everybody!
>
>I'm experiencing high static levels in our repeater that appears to 
>develop ahead and during serve weather outbreaks. Other times it seems 
>perfectly fine.
>
>Could be precipitation static?  Wind bouncing the antenna 
>around?  Internal grounding problems?
>
>A couple of weeks ago we found that water had gotten into the 1/2 hardline 
>(Andrew) We replaced the heliax, and have a great standing wave on the 
>antenna and are looking for some ideas on this.
>
>What do we got?  40 watt Micor Repeater, 4 pole antenna (yes, its getting 
>old)! SCOM 7K, Sinclair hybrid ring duplexers.
>
>Any Ideas? Have any questions?
>Thanks All!
>Brian, WD9HSY

First make sure that the antenna is bonded to the tower and the tower
is bonded to the ground rod system and the repeater is bonded to the
ground system.
Then go to 
and scroll down to "Antennas" and look at the article on precipitation static.
A "static buster" might be just what you need.

Mike





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[bbedoe]

DESCRIBE THE STATIC..
 
Maybe static is the wrong word... Its more like loss of signal, like mobiles becoming HT's and HT's without antennas!
 
Like the receiver wants to hide ... (Hi, Hi)
 
My only concern about wind vibration is that the antenna hasn't been played with.  We have windy days, but it's much worst during weather outbreaks! No where near as bad as just a windy day.
 
Thanks all!
Brian













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[Dave VanHorn]

At 04:31 PM 6/8/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Let's talk about static!  Hi everybody!
>
>I'm experiencing high static levels in our repeater that appears to 
>develop ahead and during serve weather outbreaks. Other times it 
>seems perfectly fine.
>
>Could be precipitation static?  Wind bouncing the antenna 
>around?  Internal grounding problems?

If you've not seen what happens in southern CA with the Santa Ana 
winds, you'd never believe it.
AMAZING levels of noise right across the VHF spectrum.
AFAIK, not much you can do about that.

>A couple of weeks ago we found that water had gotten into the 1/2 
>hardline (Andrew) We replaced the heliax, and have a great standing 
>wave on the antenna and are looking for some ideas on this.

What does the static sound like?  Bursts of hash would say 
"connector" to me,  varying level but constant noise duration would 
suggest precip or wind/dust.

Can you grab the antenna and shake the hell out of it on a nice day?





 
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[Repeater-Builder] WEATHER RELATED STATIC

[bbedoe]

Let's talk about static!  Hi everybody!
 
I'm experiencing high static levels in our repeater that appears to develop ahead and during serve weather outbreaks. Other times it seems perfectly fine.
 
Could be precipitation static?  Wind bouncing the antenna around?  Internal grounding problems? 
 
A couple of weeks ago we found that water had gotten into the 1/2 hardline (Andrew) We replaced the heliax, and have a great standing wave on the antenna and are looking for some ideas on this.
 
What do we got?  40 watt Micor Repeater, 4 pole antenna (yes, its getting old)! SCOM 7K, Sinclair hybrid ring duplexers.
 
Any Ideas? Have any questions?
Thanks All!
Brian, WD9HSY













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