Re: [Repeater-Builder] Midland 13-509
I think I still have the repeater conversion article from 220 Notes around here someplace. I did the conversion years ago for my first repeater and it worked quite well. I can try to dig it out if anyone is interested. 73, Joe, K1ike Gary wrote: The Midland 13-509 is spoken for. Thanks all, Gary *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary *Sent:* Friday, November 27, 2009 1:38 PM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] Midland 13-509 There was a time when the ol’ Midland 13-509 mobiles made good radios from which to build a 220Mhz amateur repeater. I have a 13-509 for sale in excellent condition and in the original box. Included is the manual, mounting bracket, and mic. Has several pairs of crystals already installed. Asking $50 +s/h. If interested please email me direct (off the group). Gary N6LRV Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Midland 13-509
The Midland 13-509 is spoken for. Thanks all, Gary _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 1:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Midland 13-509 There was a time when the ol' Midland 13-509 mobiles made good radios from which to build a 220Mhz amateur repeater. I have a 13-509 for sale in excellent condition and in the original box. Included is the manual, mounting bracket, and mic. Has several pairs of crystals already installed. Asking $50 +s/h. If interested please email me direct (off the group). Gary N6LRV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change?
Dave, Keep in mind that the Midland 13-509 was built for the Amateur Radio market, and the transmit crystals are only specified to maintain .001%, which is 10 PPM. There is no temperature compensation in the crystal circuit, and you may make the drift worse by using an NPO capacitor. If you have the time and the test equipment to do it, you can determine a crude temperature compensation by finding out how much the TX crystal drifts for a given change in temperature, then using a capacitor whose TC has an equal but opposite effect. This capacitor will definitely not be an NPO type, which is stable over a wide temperature range. In fact, you want an unstable capacitor that exactly balances the crystal drift. Commercial radios of the same vintage often used bare crystals with a color dot on the side of the can, and you were instructed to install the appropriate color TC capacitor with that particular crystal. Not perfect, but adequate. You might also consider replacing the bare TX crystal oscillator with a small TCXO unit from any of several sources, including ICM. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY One other thing you might try - tape a 100 ohm 1 watt resistor to the side of the crystal and put 12 VDC across it. Not a pretty sight, and Eric will probably really bad mouth this one, but it can move the crystal temp into an area of its temperature range that stays more stable frequency wise with external temperature changes. I have had good luck and bad luck with this scheme. Sometimes it makes the frequency stability better from a temperature change standpoint, and sometimes makes it worse. It all depends on just how your crystal is cut. 73 - Jim W5ZIT Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change?
At 5/22/2006 10:48, you wrote: Working on my midland 220 box, with new international crystals. Crystals are standard delivery, not rushed, so they should be pretty stable. They always are in my other rigs... Question: Is it worth swapping out the fixed value cap that is paralleled across the ceramic trimmer on the transmit side? Mine seems to drift around a bit more than I like. My guess is it's the crystal that's drifting. Hit just the crystal with a bit of freeze spray, or the tip of your soldering iron for just one second see if it takes off. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change?
At 5/23/2006 07:20, you wrote: One other thing you might try - tape a 100 ohm 1 watt resistor to the side of the crystal and put 12 VDC across it. Not a pretty sight, and If you're going to heat the crystal, might as well use something that will keep it at a more or less stable temperature: a 50 ohms 50 degree C PTC thermistor. Digikey has them for $1.68 each (manufacturer part # RL3006-50-50-25-PTO). Desolder one of the leads solder the disk directly onto one side of the crystal, ground the crystal case apply a regulated voltage to the other side. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change?
Or use a Motorola crystal oven @ 85 degrees C ... Neil - WA6KLA Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change? Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 08:43:33 -0700 At 5/23/2006 07:20, you wrote: One other thing you might try - tape a 100 ohm 1 watt resistor to the side of the crystal and put 12 VDC across it. Not a pretty sight, and If you're going to heat the crystal, might as well use something that will keep it at a more or less stable temperature: a 50 ohms 50 degree C PTC thermistor. Digikey has them for $1.68 each (manufacturer part # RL3006-50-50-25-PTO). Desolder one of the leads solder the disk directly onto one side of the crystal, ground the crystal case apply a regulated voltage to the other side. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13 -509 tx freq stability... cap change?
I bought a used 220 Maggiore Repeater a number of years ago and it had this setup for xtal. temp. control on both the TX and RX xtals. Not sure the manufacturer of the thermistors, but they look like what Bob is describing. Roger W5RD If you're going to heat the crystal, might as well use something that will keep it at a more or less stable temperature: a 50 ohms 50 degree C PTC thermistor. Digikey has them for $1.68 each (manufacturer part # RL3006-50-50-25-PTO). Desolder one of the leads solder the disk directly onto one side of the crystal, ground the crystal case apply a regulated voltage to the other side. Bob NO6B Roger White Murphy, Texas Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change?
If you decide to use an 85 deg C oven, you must get the crystal cut for that temperature. I have plenty of GE ovens here if you need one6 or 12 volts. 73 John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change? Or use a Motorola crystal oven @ 85 degrees C ... Neil - WA6KLA Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change? Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 08:43:33 -0700 At 5/23/2006 07:20, you wrote: One other thing you might try - tape a 100 ohm 1 watt resistor to the side of the crystal and put 12 VDC across it. Not a pretty sight, and If you're going to heat the crystal, might as well use something that will keep it at a more or less stable temperature: a 50 ohms 50 degree C PTC thermistor. Digikey has them for $1.68 each (manufacturer part # RL3006-50-50-25-PTO). Desolder one of the leads solder the disk directly onto one side of the crystal, ground the crystal case apply a regulated voltage to the other side. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change?
At 5/23/2006 02:06 PM, you wrote: If you decide to use an 85 deg C oven, you must get the crystal cut for that temperature. Yes, I've noticed some short-term aging problems with crystals run at 50 C. In one case the crystal was held at 35 C for a couple of years, then sat on the shelf for a few more. When put back into service at 50 C, it drifted up about 2 PPM over a period of a couple of days. So it seems that even moderately heated crystals need to be aged at their operating temperature. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... capchange?
I have found the Motorola 85 degree C gold oven to be quite stable - the earlier black 65 degree C oven wasn't. I think I found a brand new gold one in stock here a few weeks ago too. Neil Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... capchange? Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:00:21 -0700 At 5/23/2006 02:06 PM, you wrote: If you decide to use an 85 deg C oven, you must get the crystal cut for that temperature. Yes, I've noticed some short-term aging problems with crystals run at 50 C. In one case the crystal was held at 35 C for a couple of years, then sat on the shelf for a few more. When put back into service at 50 C, it drifted up about 2 PPM over a period of a couple of days. So it seems that even moderately heated crystals need to be aged at their operating temperature. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... capchange?
At 5/23/2006 05:20 PM, you wrote: I have found the Motorola 85 degree C gold oven to be quite stable - the earlier black 65 degree C oven wasn't. Stability wasn't an issue in this case. I was using a temperature controller with feedback; the sensor on the crystal was held within +/- 0.2 degrees F. Turns out that with that level of crystal temperature stability, the primary drifting component in a G.E. MVP is the oscillator transistor. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change?
Dave, Keep in mind that the Midland 13-509 was built for the Amateur Radio market, and the transmit crystals are only specified to maintain .001%, which is 10 PPM. There is no temperature compensation in the crystal circuit, and you may make the drift worse by using an NPO capacitor. If you have the time and the test equipment to do it, you can determine a crude temperature compensation by finding out how much the TX crystal drifts for a given change in temperature, then using a capacitor whose TC has an equal but opposite effect. This capacitor will definitely not be an NPO type, which is stable over a wide temperature range. In fact, you want an unstable capacitor that exactly balances the crystal drift. Commercial radios of the same vintage often used bare crystals with a color dot on the side of the can, and you were instructed to install the appropriate color TC capacitor with that particular crystal. Not perfect, but adequate. You might also consider replacing the bare TX crystal oscillator with a small TCXO unit from any of several sources, including ICM. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of na6df Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 tx freq stability... cap change? Working on my midland 220 box, with new international crystals. Crystals are standard delivery, not rushed, so they should be pretty stable. They always are in my other rigs... Question: Is it worth swapping out the fixed value cap that is paralleled across the ceramic trimmer on the transmit side? Mine seems to drift around a bit more than I like. I have to assume the stock cap is an NPO type. Schematic does not state capacitance of this cap. Anybody know what it is? RF Parts sells NPO's, but is it worth it? Better ideas, if any? tnx and 73, Dave NA6DF Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 220mhz to convert to repeater
At 07:39 AM 7/29/05, you wrote: w8qpo wrote: hello, anybody have details of converting midland 13-509 220mhz radio to repeater? I would like to split rec and tx. thanks brad w8qpo K1IKE posted this here in June: http://6mt.com/222tech.htm It looks like everything is there you would need. Remember Clegg and Cobra also marketed the same radio. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL There is a ready-to-go 13-509 on eBay right now, complete with duplexer. I'm intimately familiar with that particular system, but I'm not the seller. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=5794144476 Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 220mhz to convert to repeater
w8qpo wrote: hello, anybody have details of converting midland 13-509 220mhz radio to repeater? I would like to split rec and tx. thanks brad w8qpo K1IKE posted this here in June: http://6mt.com/222tech.htm It looks like everything is there you would need. Remember Clegg and Cobra also marketed the same radio. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 220mhz to convert to repeater
Hi Brad, I bet if you would write or call Paul Maggiore, AA3VI he could tell you. The early Maggiore repeater where all made from the Clegg FM-76 and the Midland 13-509 mobile radio's. His phone number is (610)436-6051. He also has a ton of parts for these radio's. Good luck, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: w8qpo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:13 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] midland 13-509 220mhz to convert to repeater hello, anybody have details of converting midland 13-509 220mhz radio to repeater? I would like to split rec and tx. thanks brad w8qpo Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
