RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV

2009-02-20 Thread Barry

After years of fiddling with digital here as I said it either works or not , 
any installer worth his salt will install to the signal by simple  portable 
analysis test if need be ( not a cheap machine) and reliance on a web site to 
me at least makes little sense , remember treating it like analogue is a recipe 
for failure 

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: jsu...@intrastar.net
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:32:55 -0600
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT  DTV






























I find it horribly inaccurate since it doesn’t take into account
receiving height.   What height are they calculating for?  Set-top first-story
height?  Rooftop?  Tower top?  At the dirt?  I know they didn’t compensate for
the 20 ft altitude change between the end of my driveway and the front door of
my house.  

 

The exact position of the receiving antenna dictates a LOT.

 

A couple years ago, with my scanner and a telescoping antenna, I
could hear 1 UHF station’s audio at my mailbox (low, at the road)

 

Near my house, 4 ft AGL - 3

 

Inside my house,  4 ft AGL – 1 (I watched 9/11 news off this
station using set-attached rabbit ears, go figure).  Oddly enough, not the same
station that I can hear at my mailbox (this station would be very non-LOS at my
mailbox)

 

At the ‘tree line’ on my tower – 7

 

150’ up my tower – a whole hell of a lot more (all high power
stations from Tyler/Lufkin/Houston/Dallas-Ft Worth/Austin/Shreveport/Beaumont 
[within
250 miles or so]).  Some were very faint, but definitely there (and this is
with an Omni antenna and a half-deaf Uniden scanner…), some were stomped on by
local low-power stations.  The issue at that height is the antenna being
directional enough to isolate on-channel noise.

 

Now, the real question is, how bad does Fresnel affect DTV vs
analog.  I betcha you’ll have horrible problems with DTV signal in areas that
tend to ‘ghost’, where analog TV was perfectly watchable/listenable, just 
somewhat
annoying.  9901 Sweetwater, Houston, TX 77037 (house where I grew up) had this
problem.  As downtown Houston “swole” in the late 70s/early 80s ghosting became
more and more of a problem.  All we could do is kick our antenna farther west
and add a variable signal attenuator (ie ‘ ghost filter’) - didn’t help a whole
lot.

 

JS

 





From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph S. Turk

Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:19 AM

To: Repeater-Builder

Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV





 



Good morning All



The following is a new FCC web site for DTV



Follow instructions carefully.  Wait for the 



program to calculate info.



Seems to be one of the best.  Confirms what



I know from working in the TV business for 



30+ years.  Last several installing DTV. 





http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/





Ralph,W7HSG













 










 

  














_
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV

2009-02-20 Thread Jacob Suter
I find it horribly inaccurate since it doesn’t take into account receiving 
height.   What height are they calculating for?  Set-top first-story height?  
Rooftop?  Tower top?  At the dirt?  I know they didn’t compensate for the 20 ft 
altitude change between the end of my driveway and the front door of my house.  

 

The exact position of the receiving antenna dictates a LOT.

 

A couple years ago, with my scanner and a telescoping antenna, I could hear 1 
UHF station’s audio at my mailbox (low, at the road)

 

Near my house, 4 ft AGL - 3

 

Inside my house,  4 ft AGL – 1 (I watched 9/11 news off this station using 
set-attached rabbit ears, go figure).  Oddly enough, not the same station that 
I can hear at my mailbox (this station would be very non-LOS at my mailbox)

 

At the ‘tree line’ on my tower – 7

 

150’ up my tower – a whole hell of a lot more (all high power stations from 
Tyler/Lufkin/Houston/Dallas-Ft Worth/Austin/Shreveport/Beaumont [within 250 
miles or so]).  Some were very faint, but definitely there (and this is with an 
Omni antenna and a half-deaf Uniden scanner…), some were stomped on by local 
low-power stations.  The issue at that height is the antenna being directional 
enough to isolate on-channel noise.

 

Now, the real question is, how bad does Fresnel affect DTV vs analog.  I betcha 
you’ll have horrible problems with DTV signal in areas that tend to ‘ghost’, 
where analog TV was perfectly watchable/listenable, just somewhat annoying.  
9901 Sweetwater, Houston, TX 77037 (house where I grew up) had this problem.  
As downtown Houston “swole” in the late 70s/early 80s ghosting became more and 
more of a problem.  All we could do is kick our antenna farther west and add a 
variable signal attenuator (ie ‘ ghost filter’) - didn’t help a whole lot.

 

JS

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ralph S. Turk
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:19 AM
To: Repeater-Builder
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV

 

Good morning All

The following is a new FCC web site for DTV

Follow instructions carefully.  Wait for the 

program to calculate info.

Seems to be one of the best.  Confirms what

I know from working in the TV business for 

30+ years.  Last several installing DTV. 


http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


Ralph,W7HSG






 



Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV

2009-02-20 Thread Dave Gomberg
At 07:02 2/20/2009, Chuck Kelsey wrote:
>
>I just checked this against my location and the 
>results were woefully inaccurate.

I just checked this against my QTH and it was 95% 
accurate with respect to actual experience.

>
>Chuck
>WB2EDV
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: Ralph S. Turk
>To: Repeater-Builder
>Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:19 AM
>Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV
>
>Good morning All
>
>The following is a new FCC web site for DTV
>
>Follow instructions carefully.  Wait for the
>
>program to calculate info.
>
>Seems to be one of the best.  Confirms what
>
>I know from working in the TV business for
>
>30+ years.  Last several installing DTV.
>
>
>http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
>
>
>Ralph,W7HSG
>
>
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.1/1960 
>- Release Date: 02/19/09 10:48:00


-- 
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco   NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html
- 



Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV

2009-02-20 Thread Chuck Kelsey
I had mixed results. It said I'd get stations that I can't and said I won't 
get stations that I do.

Same thing for another location I checked.

Chuck



- Original Message - 
From: "Paul N1BUG" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV


> Yup. Woefully inaccurate (too optimistic) for my location too, but
> after zooming all the way in I am impressed with their terrain data. :-)
>
>
> Chuck Kelsey wrote:
>> 
>> I just checked this against my location and the results were woefully
>> inaccurate.
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV
>
>> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
>
>



Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV

2009-02-20 Thread Paul N1BUG
Yup. Woefully inaccurate (too optimistic) for my location too, but 
after zooming all the way in I am impressed with their terrain data. :-)


Chuck Kelsey wrote:
> 
> I just checked this against my location and the results were woefully 
> inaccurate.
>  
> Chuck
> WB2EDV

> http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV

2009-02-20 Thread Chuck Kelsey
I just checked this against my location and the results were woefully 
inaccurate.

Chuck
WB2EDV


  - Original Message - 
  From: Ralph S. Turk 
  To: Repeater-Builder 
  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:19 AM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT DTV


  Good morning All

  The following is a new FCC web site for DTV

  Follow instructions carefully.  Wait for the 

  program to calculate info.

  Seems to be one of the best.  Confirms what

  I know from working in the TV business for 

  30+ years.  Last several installing DTV. 


  http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


  Ralph,W7HSG