Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I have seen instances where a light switch to a ceiling fixture was put in the neutral side, nd not the hot side of the line. I have also seen where some hams, to save money, were using 120 volt 3 prong plugs for their mobile radios. Thinking what would happen if someone else plugged it into a 120 volt outlet, ha ha ha. I also dislike 12 volt light fixtures that take a 12 volt screw in bulb of the same size as a 120 volt light bulb. Took me a while to figure that out on a 5th wheel I had, and putting a 120volt bulb in it would not light. A previous owner had rewired the light over the bathroom sink for 120 volts, but using zip cord. At one corner of a 10 acre plot, of which I own 1/4, there is an electrical box on a pole, no switches or breakers, that still has 430 volts coming into it. they use a lot of supposed 480 volt motors around here for oil well pumps. They wire two transformer outputs in series to get the 480. Some, but not all, meter boxes are marked 480 volts. I see a lot of poor wiring around this area. I even found one outlet in this house, one of only two left, that had the white and black wires reversed. I redid that before I hooke that line up to a new breaker panel. I had to extend the wire, but did that in a box to be sure of what I had. I always tend to check each outlet to be sure it is wired correctly. Most of the ceiling lights that had been in here were poorly wired with no boxes at the fixtures. I'm putting in boxes where I will be wiring ceiling/wall fixtures. It doesn't take that much to do a proper wiring job, compared to a lousy jb with possible hazards... YMMV Wayne WA2YNE On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:39:50 -0500, Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically anywhere. Many times I have seen outlets Converted to 3 wire from two, only to find all they did was ground from the neutral wire. That means I get all kinds of RFI and if the Ground ever dropped, it would be HOT just from the return from the light bulb or whatever. BTW, those cheap Testers will NOT detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse! If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground to your Meter and find what wires are Hot I remember A house I rented, every time I touched the light switch/outlet in the garage I got tickled Glad I knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact, and I would not be typing this right now! Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK! Always remember, just because the outlet is Grounded does not mean it is really Grounded Verify! Stay safe out there! Bruce Bagwell KE5TPN -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Where is the requirement for running a separate feed to EACH OUTLET
REQUIRED? Not in the US A dedicated out is required for certain
special situations but not for each outlet elsewhere. There are certain
other requirements such as GFCI and AFCI. But, certainly no dedicated
feeder for each out.
Ron Wright wrote:
Gary,
I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a different buss
bar. I had thought maybe because the neutral was sometimes, not now to code,
smaller than the neutral. However, both got connected to the panel case.
One can Ohm out neutral to safety and only see the resistance in the wiring
to/from the panel. However, as you well know, should not be considered the
same.
In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green coated,
but some is still bare as you said. I've seen lots of this.
Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same size as
neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being safety ground
color or bare. Also they are doing something different, a separate set of
wires must be ran between panel and each outlet...no more of one wire to one
outlet and then from here to another outlet, etc. Can you imagine the extra
cost and labor. Not sure what they do at the breaker panel...put in separate
breaker for each outlet. Not sure if this NEC code or something to do with
the hurricane code we have here in Florida. We do lots of construction very
different here, hi.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here (western IL)
the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type cable, and
may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size smaller than
the 'main' conductors.
Also, the GC goes to one bus-bar, the neutral to another, the GC bus-bar is
bonded ot the neutral at the SERVICE panel (incoming power, the one with the
'Main' braker that shuts off all power), but is kept separate in all
sub-panels, and from the sub-panel(s) there must be a separate GC (coded
green) run back to the GC bus-bar in the service panel.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
It's funny you mention building construction. I work for a company that,
under the original ownership in the 70's, built two identical
facilities, one in California and one in Illinois. I work for the
company in Illinois. The buildings were constructed to California code,
and I'm sure you can imagine the problems we've had with the buildings
in the winter.
Chris
N9XCR
On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 13:12 -0500, Ron Wright wrote:
Dave,
This is a code requirement here in my county and think all of Florida.
The code requirements for building is a county/state issue and vary.
Most use the NEC code. Many have additional codes such as having wind
resistance building. The way homes are constructed in the north would
not be allowed in Florida mainly due to the wind. This is why we see
so much concrete block construction with lots of requirements for
attaching to foundation and roof securing. Just different part of the
US.
Same with electric code. For various reasons some additional changes
are often made. Just because you have a code in your area does not
mean it is in all of US. It is county mostly with some state codes. In
my county there were NO building codes until the 70s. Can you believe
this.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 11:43:50 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Where is the requirement for running a separate feed to EACH OUTLET
REQUIRED? Not in the US A dedicated out is required for certain
special situations but not for each outlet elsewhere. There are
certain
other requirements such as GFCI and AFCI. But, certainly no
dedicated
feeder for each out.
Ron Wright wrote:
Gary,
I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a
different buss bar. I had thought maybe because the neutral was
sometimes, not now to code, smaller than the neutral. However, both
got connected to the panel case. One can Ohm out neutral to safety and
only see the resistance in the wiring to/from the panel. However, as
you well know, should not be considered the same.
In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green
coated, but some is still bare as you said. I've seen lots of this.
Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same
size as neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being
safety ground color or bare. Also they are doing something different,
a separate set of wires must be ran between panel and each outlet...no
more of one wire to one outlet and then from here to another outlet,
etc. Can you imagine the extra cost and labor. Not sure what they do
at the breaker panel...put in separate breaker for each outlet. Not
sure if this NEC code or something to do with the hurricane code we
have here in Florida. We do lots of construction very different here,
hi.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power
Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here
(western IL)
the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type
cable, and
may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size
smaller than
the 'main' conductors.
Also, the GC goes to one bus-bar, the neutral to another, the GC
bus-bar is
bonded ot the neutral at the SERVICE panel (incoming power, the
one with the
'Main' braker that shuts off all power), but is kept separate in
all
sub-panels, and from the sub-panel(s) there must be a separate GC
(coded
green) run back to the GC bus-bar in the service panel.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically anywhere. Many times I have seen outlets Converted to 3 wire from two, only to find all they did was ground from the neutral wire. That means I get all kinds of RFI and if the Ground ever dropped, it would be HOT just from the return from the light bulb or whatever. BTW, those cheap Testers will NOT detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse! If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground to your Meter and find what wires are Hot I remember A house I rented, every time I touched the light switch/outlet in the garage I got tickled Glad I knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact, and I would not be typing this right now! Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK! Always remember, just because the outlet is Grounded does not mean it is really Grounded Verify! Stay safe out there! Bruce Bagwell KE5TPN If You Can Read This, Thank A Teacher. If You Are Reading This in ENGLISH, Thank A Veteran or Current Soldier! Support Our Troops! For Without Them, We Have No Support at All! The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three wire plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the plugs. It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up gizmo. I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Yes there is a new version available from Fluke. I have one as well as two of the older versions. One is in my shirt pocket at all times ! If you ever tried to check a dead string of Christmas tree lights, then this thing is what you need. It will show you where the bad bulb is located by not lighting up past the bulb. If you check an outlet and see power on both the hot and the neutral, then the ground is missing. They are very handy in checking a power panel to find the open breaker, or a blown glass fuse. These are one of the best and simplest AC testers ever built. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 3:16 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards Nate wrote: From the link you sent: This product is discontinued. Just to the right of the words, This product is discontinued is a line that says, Fluke suggests... and lists the 1ACII with a link to it. Appears to be just a newer version of the same thing; I didn't read what's different about it. Anyway, they do still have one available. Tom --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 4, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Thomas Oliver wrote: I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie From the link you sent: This product is discontinued. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Try this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EJ332O Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 10:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards On Jul 4, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Thomas Oliver wrote: I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=Fl ukeUnit com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie From the link you sent: This product is discontinued. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:nate%40natetech.com com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Uh...seems like it might be wiser to just rewire the receptacle? Once you've determined the device is miswired, I would suggest correcting it.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
At 7/5/2008 10:09, you wrote: The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Uh...seems like it might be wiser to just rewire the receptacle? Once you've determined the device is miswired, I would suggest correcting it. Has no one seen my reply to this like messages? It will be fixed, but by a professional. With my luck, the circuit breaker is probably wired to the neutral line as well so all I'd do is end up killing myself trying to fix a simple problem. When I get the electrician out here, I'll have him check all that. In the meantime, Christmas lights are safe to use on that outlet. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I don't think people read the entire thread before firing off a reply. I read your initial message, and was going to reply, but finished reading the rest and changed my mind. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:06 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards At 7/5/2008 10:09, you wrote: The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Uh...seems like it might be wiser to just rewire the receptacle? Once you've determined the device is miswired, I would suggest correcting it. Has no one seen my reply to this like messages? It will be fixed, but by a professional. With my luck, the circuit breaker is probably wired to the neutral line as well so all I'd do is end up killing myself trying to fix a simple problem. When I get the electrician out here, I'll have him check all that. In the meantime, Christmas lights are safe to use on that outlet. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Bob, Maybe they are, but probably not. Christmas light sets must have a polarized plug, in order to be NRTL listed. The wider plug blade is supposed to go into the wider slot of the receptacle which, in a properly-wired outlet, will be the neutral (grounded) side of the power circuit. This arrangement ensures that the screw base of each lamp in the string is close to ground potential, minimizing the shock hazard if a fingertip touches the metal when a lamp is replaced. In your case, with reversed polarity on the power outlet, the lamp bases will be hot (electrically) and thus pose a dangerous shock hazard. It would be a good idea to unplug the lights before changing out a lamp. Of course, if the light strings are not NRTL-listed and/or are polarized incorrectly, the receptacle polarity becomes irrelevant. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:06 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards At 7/5/2008 10:09, you wrote: snip In the meantime, Christmas lights are safe to use on that outlet. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three wire plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the plugs. It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up gizmo. I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
On Jul 4, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Thomas Oliver wrote: I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie From the link you sent: This product is discontinued. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
