Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
Wayne, I've seen some shotty wiring also. Scares you sometimes thinking what can happen especially if the wire used is too small. One note is from the Philipenes. There they use, as many other countries do, 220 VAC, but use the same 110 outlet we use here in the US. My wife is from there and we sent a TV/VCR to her family with a 220 to 110 converter which worked well. Then the converter went bad so they simply plugged the TV into their outlet. Next they were asking about parts for it and where to buy. I told them forget it for it was in house part numbers and little chance of finding them. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Wayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/14 Mon AM 03:00:56 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards I have seen instances where a light switch to a ceiling fixture was put in the neutral side, nd not the hot side of the line. I have also seen where some hams, to save money, were using 120 volt 3 prong plugs for their mobile radios. Thinking what would happen if someone else plugged it into a 120 volt outlet, ha ha ha. I also dislike 12 volt light fixtures that take a 12 volt screw in bulb of the same size as a 120 volt light bulb. Took me a while to figure that out on a 5th wheel I had, and putting a 120volt bulb in it would not light. A previous owner had rewired the light over the bathroom sink for 120 volts, but using zip cord. At one corner of a 10 acre plot, of which I own 1/4, there is an electrical box on a pole, no switches or breakers, that still has 430 volts coming into it. they use a lot of supposed 480 volt motors around here for oil well pumps. They wire two transformer outputs in series to get the 480. Some, but not all, meter boxes are marked 480 volts. I see a lot of poor wiring around this area. I even found one outlet in this house, one of only two left, that had the white and black wires reversed. I redid that before I hooke that line up to a new breaker panel. I had to extend the wire, but did that in a box to be sure of what I had. I always tend to check each outlet to be sure it is wired correctly. Most of the ceiling lights that had been in here were poorly wired with no boxes at the fixtures. I'm putting in boxes where I will be wiring ceiling/wall fixtures. It doesn't take that much to do a proper wiring job, compared to a lousy jb with possible hazards... YMMV Wayne WA2YNE On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:39:50 -0500, Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically anywhere. Many times I have seen outlets Converted to 3 wire from two, only to find all they did was ground from the neutral wire. That means I get all kinds of RFI and if the Ground ever dropped, it would be HOT just from the return from the light bulb or whatever. BTW, those cheap Testers will NOT detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse! If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground to your Meter and find what wires are Hot I remember A house I rented, every time I touched the light switch/outlet in the garage I got tickled Glad I knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact, and I would not be typing this right now! Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK! Always remember, just because the outlet is Grounded does not mean it is really Grounded Verify! Stay safe out there! Bruce Bagwell KE5TPN -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Yahoo! Groups Links Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
Dave,
This is a code requirement here in my county and think all of Florida.
The code requirements for building is a county/state issue and vary. Most use
the NEC code. Many have additional codes such as having wind resistance
building. The way homes are constructed in the north would not be allowed in
Florida mainly due to the wind. This is why we see so much concrete block
construction with lots of requirements for attaching to foundation and roof
securing. Just different part of the US.
Same with electric code. For various reasons some additional changes are often
made. Just because you have a code in your area does not mean it is in all of
US. It is county mostly with some state codes. In my county there were NO
building codes until the 70s. Can you believe this.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 11:43:50 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due
toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
Where is the requirement for running a separate feed to EACH OUTLET
REQUIRED? Not in the US A dedicated out is required for certain
special situations but not for each outlet elsewhere. There are certain
other requirements such as GFCI and AFCI. But, certainly no dedicated
feeder for each out.
Ron Wright wrote:
Gary,
I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a different buss
bar. I had thought maybe because the neutral was sometimes, not now to
code, smaller than the neutral. However, both got connected to the panel
case. One can Ohm out neutral to safety and only see the resistance in the
wiring to/from the panel. However, as you well know, should not be
considered the same.
In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green coated,
but some is still bare as you said. I've seen lots of this.
Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same size as
neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being safety ground
color or bare. Also they are doing something different, a separate set of
wires must be ran between panel and each outlet...no more of one wire to one
outlet and then from here to another outlet, etc. Can you imagine the extra
cost and labor. Not sure what they do at the breaker panel...put in
separate breaker for each outlet. Not sure if this NEC code or something to
do with the hurricane code we have here in Florida. We do lots of
construction very different here, hi.
73, ron, n9ee/r
From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies
Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here (western IL)
the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type cable, and
may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size smaller than
the 'main' conductors.
Also, the GC goes to one bus-bar, the neutral to another, the GC bus-bar is
bonded ot the neutral at the SERVICE panel (incoming power, the one with the
'Main' braker that shuts off all power), but is kept separate in all
sub-panels, and from the sub-panel(s) there must be a separate GC (coded
green) run back to the GC bus-bar in the service panel.
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
I believe RS has to take the supply back and rewire or fix it. It sounds like an easy thing to do...just reverse the neutral and safety ground as the plug enters the supply. If I had a number of these I would take back to RS and have them do it. They should put a label on it stating the mod had been done. I wonder if there are any charges such as return shipping charges. Although one can say if your outlet is wire correctly there would not be a problem. This is true, but with the millions of outlets in the world and maybe one in your own home you have not yet tried with the RS supply I would definitly want it wired correctly. I wonder how this happened. I am sure the supply is UL listed (no such thing as US approved) so looks like something got over looked or a change occured at RS manufacturing. In the US the safety ground and neutral both go back to the same place in the power panel (fuse box). Most of the time both are insulated with different color wires and often the neutral is a size larger wire (not allowed with new code), but with the RS supply this wire size would not be a problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Gary Glaenzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 08:21:43 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards I must have a half-dozen of these http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-08.html true, they will NOT show ground/neutral reversal, but if your panel is wired correctly, that's a non-issue - Original Message - From: Thomas OliverTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, July 04, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three wire plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the plugs. It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up gizmo. I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.135 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 PM Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards
The cheap outlet checkers will detect reversal of the hot and neutral, but cannot detect reverse of the neutral and safety ground due to they both connect to the same point in the power panel. The checkers will detect if no safety ground is present. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Bruce Bagwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 02:39:50 EDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically anywhere. Many times I have seen outlets Converted to 3 wire from two, only to find all they did was ground from the neutral wire. That means I get all kinds of RFI and if the Ground ever dropped, it would be HOT just from the return from the light bulb or whatever. BTW, those cheap Testers will NOT detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse! If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground to your Meter and find what wires are Hot I remember A house I rented, every time I touched the light switch/outlet in the garage I got tickledGlad I knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact, and I would not be typing this right now!Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK! Always remember, just because the outlet is Grounded does not mean it is really Grounded Verify! Stay safe out there! Bruce Bagwell KE5TPN If You Can Read This, Thank A Teacher. If You Are Reading This in ENGLISH, Thank A Veteran or Current Soldier! Support Our Troops! For Without Them, We Have No Support at All! The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, found one in the garage that had line neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, is now only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights. Bob NO6B My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three wire plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the plugs. It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up gizmo. I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity. http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit edStates Best $20.00 I spent. tom n8ie Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
