Re: Backing up Citrix MetaFrame server

[Dean Brissinger]

>on 9/18/2000 1:08 PM, Daniel Knight at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>  We're looking into a Citrix MetaFrame Windows application server for our
>>  network. I'd prefer to avoid the DAT backups the bidders are recommending
>>  and use Retrospect. Anyone familiar with the MetaFrame application server
>>  and how well it would fit?
>
>I'm using Retrospect on a Mac to backup a MetaFrame server to VXA tape.
>Works great. Just be sure to run the registry backup service on the NT box.

It also works fine without regcopy.exe when backing up from 
Retrospect for Windows.


-- 
. . . . . . . . ooo . . . . ooo . . . . . . . . .
.   .
.Dean Brissinger - Systems Administrator.
.   Direct: 303-583-0278   Main: 303-444-0094   .
.   Fax: 303-444-0470  http://www.vexcel.com/   .
.   .
. . . . . . . oOOo . . A . . oOOo . . . . . . . .
  0 0
 '


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Error -517?

[Cory Rau]

Anyone ever seen this one before?

Can't access volume Backup Folder for Text Files on FMP_SERVER, error -517
(backup client is busy)
9/14/2000 1:03:55 AM: Execution incomplete

We are backing up a Macintosh client to an NT machine in the middle of the
night.  None of the files we're backing up are open and no users are on the
server.  It's a FileMaker Pro server with FMP Server 3 up and running but
we're not backing up the database files with Retrospect, just the text files
we downloaded from our mainframe the previous morning.

This error code is not listed on the Dantz web site.

Anybody have more details on this error?

Thanks in advance,
Cory



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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Larry Acosta Wong]

VXA-1 has 65% greater capacity, lower drive cost, but higher media cost.
Plus, of course there's that reliability thing. Ecrix boiled a tape,
recovered the data; froze a tape; recovered the data.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Adam Cohen
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:32 AM
To: 'retro-talk'
Subject: RE: Advice requested: tape system


Is the VXA-1 that much better than DDS 4?

Adam Cohen





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Daniel Knight
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:10 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no
longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.

I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression, although I haven't hit
that level on my home network -- probably due to slow 6100s and Quadras
not able to send data fast enough. Cost for the drive ranges from $600 to
$1200+, depending on the deal you manage to find. Tapes are $80 each.

At work, we use AIT, which has a native capacity of 25 GB and averages
about 35 GB compressed. AIT seems to work better backing up older, slower
Macs on the network. I've never run *under* the tapes rated capacity, as
I did with my first VXA tape at home. Cost of drives is much higher
($2000+). Tapes are about $80, also.

I have no experience with DLT.

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company 
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Matt Barkdull]

>I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression,


I'd be changing tapes every 3 seconds!!:)  typo.  Should be GB.



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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Adam Cohen]

Is the VXA-1 that much better than DDS 4?

Adam Cohen





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Daniel Knight
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:10 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no
longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.

I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression, although I haven't hit 
that level on my home network -- probably due to slow 6100s and Quadras 
not able to send data fast enough. Cost for the drive ranges from $600 to 
$1200+, depending on the deal you manage to find. Tapes are $80 each.

At work, we use AIT, which has a native capacity of 25 GB and averages 
about 35 GB compressed. AIT seems to work better backing up older, slower 
Macs on the network. I've never run *under* the tapes rated capacity, as 
I did with my first VXA tape at home. Cost of drives is much higher 
($2000+). Tapes are about $80, also.

I have no experience with DLT.

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company 
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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Re: Backing up Citrix MetaFrame server

[Jon Gardner]

on 9/18/2000 1:08 PM, Daniel Knight at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> We're looking into a Citrix MetaFrame Windows application server for our
> network. I'd prefer to avoid the DAT backups the bidders are recommending
> and use Retrospect. Anyone familiar with the MetaFrame application server
> and how well it would fit?

I'm using Retrospect on a Mac to backup a MetaFrame server to VXA tape.
Works great. Just be sure to run the registry backup service on the NT box.

<><
Jon L. Gardner '89, Computer Systems Manager 
Texas A&M University Dept. of Food Services 
Tel 979.458.1839 * Fax 979.845.2157 * Hip 979.229.4323
PGP public key available at 





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Backing up Citrix MetaFrame server

[Daniel Knight]

We're looking into a Citrix MetaFrame Windows application server for our 
network. I'd prefer to avoid the DAT backups the bidders are recommending 
and use Retrospect. Anyone familiar with the MetaFrame application server 
and how well it would fit?

Thanks!

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company 
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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Re: backup strategy - followup

[LEO]

> From: Jon Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: "retro-talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:21:08 -0500
> To: retro-talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: backup strategy - followup
> 
>> FTP:ing stuff off-site seems little overkill for us, but if the VXA we
>> bought was shipped with an autoloader I wouldn't look in to getting a
>> tapedrive with an autoloader...!
>> 
>> Actually, I don't like backups that are so much human dependent as the one
>> we use. Changing tapes daily can't be scripted and that's why it sucks... ;-)

Hi,

Why don't you like the auto-loader? We have about 160gb data that requires
to be backed up every friday night UNATTENDED, so the autoloader was the way
to go for us, but other than that why don't you like the autoloaders?

Thks
Leo



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Re: backup strategy - followup

[Jon Gardner]

on 9/14/2000 8:49 AM, jakob krabbe at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> We use a 13-tape rotation. We swap tapes during the day on Monday, full
>> (recycle) backup on Monday night, normal backups Tue-Sat nights. In
>> addition, we have an FTP server offsite with one FTP backup set on it. Every
>> two weeks we do a recycle backup to it over the weekend (takes anywhere from
>> 24-36 hours, typically) with normal backups every evening.
> 
> Seems like you're a step ahead of us...
> 
> Exactley how much data are we refering to here? What bussines are you in,
> and what type of tapes are we takling about?
>
> We're an advertisement agency, backing up clients only (at the moment we
> have no server) and approximatley 20 - 30 GB as total... Gee, I have no clue!

We have a similar amount of data. A full backup plus a week's worth of
partials fits on a single VXA tape with room to spare (so far, anyway).

> FTP:ing stuff off-site seems little overkill for us, but if the VXA we
> bought was shipped with an autoloader I wouldn't look in to getting a
> tapedrive with an autoloader...!
> 
> Actually, I don't like backups that are so much human dependent as the one
> we use. Changing tapes daily can't be scripted and that's why it sucks... ;-)

Exactly, which is why we went to the VXA from our DDS-3. It all needs to fit
on one tape in order to be easy. You don't have to FTP offsite necessarily;
if you have another building, or even just a server on the other side of the
same building, that will get you a little more security. The farther the
physical separation, the better.

<><
Jon L. Gardner '89, Computer Systems Manager 
Texas A&M University Dept. of Food Services 
Tel 979.458.1839 * Fax 979.845.2157 * Hip 979.229.4323
PGP public key available at 





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retro-talk@latchkey.com

[Stanton Mitrany]

Hi!

I've got a problem I hope you can address!

As my subject suggests, I need to successfully execute a complete hard drive
restoration from a CDR backup set made with Retrospect Express Backup 4.3 on
my Rev. B iMac running OS 8.6.

Since I have unstable directory file sectors on my hard drive, which Norton
Utilities, Disk First Aid and Drive Setup could not correct, I need to
reformat the drive to write out the bad sectors, and then completely restore
my drive from my backup set.

I've got a Zip 100 USB and a Sony Spressa CRX100E/X2 (USB) CD-RW attached,
as well as the internal CD-ROM drive.

The Express Backup bootable emergency CD, if in the internal drive, includes
Iomega Guest to start the Zip Drive, on which I've put my backup catalog.

In order to also be able to start the Spressa USB CD-RW (contains my backup
set) after I've initialized my hard drive, I've cobbled together a custom
derivative emergency CD (using Toast) to which I've added some system
extensions and preference files:

Extensions: CD-ROM Extension V1.51 (CharisMac), CharisMacOnSpec SIM V1.07c,
CharisMacOnSpec USBD V1.07c, Toast CD Reader V4.1, Toast FireWire Support
V1.0, Toast USB OnSpec v2 Bridge V1.3.0 and Toast USB Support.

Preferences: Adaptec Toast Prefs, and the Retrospect preferences folder,
contianing Operations Log, Retro.Express Config (4.2) and Retro.Icons (4).

This is obviously a "kitchen sink" approach. . . What else might I add? What
may I have missed? Any other suggestions before I "risk all" - twelve plus
years of work!??

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to consider this entreaty, and for
your help!

All the best,
Stanton Mitrany

([EMAIL PROTECTED])



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RE: Advice requested: tape system

[Geoff Rainville]

The VXA promotion has indeed been extended through September, but is not
available to our friends in the U.K.: limited to US and Canada only, since
it's a direct-sales promotion through the web store, and we don't (yet!)
sell in Europe. We're working on it.

Egghead offers a great price right now on V17 tapes, and I haven't checked
but some of the other e-tailers may be matching them.

Thanks for recommending our drive!!!

Geoff Rainville
Ecrix Corp.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
Of Ben Liberman
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 7:58 AM
To: retro-talk
Subject: Re: Advice requested: tape system


>At 8:58 AM +0100 9/18/00, Graham, Total Coverage Limited wrote:
>>For this comparison, I've included the VXA-1 at the promotional
>>price since it's been extended through Aug and is available to
>>everyone.

The VXA promotion has been extended through Sept.

   http://www.vxa.com/eval/index.cfm?a=834&p=aff


Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed
at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best
that I've found so far is ~72.50

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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Church Initiative WebMaster]

> Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed 
> at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best 
> that I've found so far is ~72.50
> 

http://www.egghead.com/category/inv/00074283/03276001.htm

<><
Stiles Watson
Director of Information Services
The Church Initiative, Inc.
www.churchinitiative.org
www.divorcecare.org
www.griefshare.org



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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Keepsake]

Graham Mitchell said:
>I am therefore looking for an economical, reliable tape based solution that
>can handle the job.

I've read discussions about using IDE drives.  You can get 40 GB 
drives for around $200.  At that price, you can get five drives, use 
one to write your backups to and then swap it out replacing it with 
the next hard drive.  I imagine that on Windoze you could even 
arrange for them to be hot swap-able.  I imagine it would be pretty 
fast, too.

EZ
-- 
Eric Zylstra
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Ben Liberman]

>At 8:58 AM +0100 9/18/00, Graham, Total Coverage Limited wrote:
>>For this comparison, I've included the VXA-1 at the promotional 
>>price since it's been extended through Aug and is available to 
>>everyone.

The VXA promotion has been extended through Sept.

   http://www.vxa.com/eval/index.cfm?a=834&p=aff


Also, in Graham's chart, the VXA V-17 media (33 gig native) is listed 
at $67.  Anyone know where I can find it at this price?  The best 
that I've found so far is ~72.50

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Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Julia Frizzell]

At 8:58 AM +0100 9/18/00, Graham, Total Coverage Limited wrote:
>Hi
>I've been using Retrospect very successfully for some while now, backing up
>our small Mac LAN to recordable CDs.
>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.
>I am therefore looking for an economical, reliable tape based solution that
>can handle the job.
>There seem to be many different ysstems available on the market, but rather
>than wade through a pile of manufacturer misinformation I thought I would come
>straight to the horse's mouth, so to speak.
>What works?
>
>Any help or pointers that fellow list-users might be able to offer will be
>gratefully received.

This is from a previous post on the list, from the beginning of 
August. I hope this helps, and I hope Larry (and the list) doesn't 
mind my reposting...

At 1:36 AM -0700 8/3/00, Larry Acosta Wong wrote:

>I've added the two OnStream drives (ADR50 and SC30) in the internal 
>SCSI configurations (wide connector if available). I've listed the 
>pricing I can get to keep the comparison prices consistent.
>
>Steve Rothman, the Eliant 820 is an Exabyte drive utilizing an 8mm 
>helical scan tape. The VXA-1 media $/GB price is also actually a bit 
>higher than you calculated
>
>   Media
>   $/GB
>---
>Exabyte M2: 60GB,  12MB/s, $3777 ($80 media)  1.33
>Sony AIT-2: 50GB,   6MB/s, $3289 ($94 media)  1.88
>DLT 8000  : 40GB,   6MB/s, $3915 ($64 media)  1.60
>Sony AIT-1: 35GB,   3MB/s, $1913 ($88 media)  2.51
>VXA-1 : 33GB,   3MB/s,  $939 ($67 media)  2.03
>ADR50 : 25GB,   2MB/s,  $697 ($46 media)  1.84
>DDS-4 : 20GB,   3MB/s, $1072 ($33 media)  1.65
>Mammoth   : 20GB,   3MB/s, $2126 ($56 media)  2.80
>DLT 4000  : 20GB, 1.5MB/s, $1352 ($64 media)  3.20
>SC30  : 15GB,   2MB/S,  $438 ($41 media)  2.73
>Mammoth-LT: 14GB,   2MB/s, $1193 ($35 media)  2.50
>DDS-3 : 12GB,   1MB/s,  $777 ($16 media)  1.33
>Eliant 820:  7GB,   1MB/s, $1160 ( $8 media)  1.14
>DDS-2 :  4GB, .51MB/s,  $606 ( $7 media)  1.75
>
>-Native capacity listed, compressed capacity is typically 50% more
>-Sustained transfer rate listed
>-Cost is based on internal model with wide SCSI connector (if available)
>-VXA-1 tape drive is even cheaper through Ecrix July promo ($539)
>-Media listed is highest capacity format in single packs
>
>
>Here's how I personally chose which tape drive to go with:
>
>The way I figure, in order, the most important factors regarding the 
>tape backup system are:
>
>1. Reliability
>2. Performance
>3. Ease
>4. Cost
>
>Some of these items will be in different order for other people but 
>I think that reliability is always the most important factor in a 
>backup. (To stress my point, substitute the word "parachute" for 
>"backup." I'm sure you'll always choose the most reliable parachute 
>over any other.)
>
>Reliability: The key feature with a backup is the ability to restore 
>data and no tape system is 100% problem-free. But, only Ecrix makes 
>these ridiculous durability claims and actually backs it up with 
>extreme torture tests (boiling & freezing tapes). This is what 
>really got my attention on the VXA drives.
>
>Performance: You need to backup your users in the shortest amount of 
>time possible. If it takes you more than one night to create a full 
>backup, some users will go more than a day between backups thus 
>reducing your backup system's effectiveness. Plus, the less you 
>inconvenience your users, the less likely they'll keep "snoozing" 
>Retrospect when it starts a backup. But with a fast tape drive 
>you'll need a fast network and fast clients. Watch for the 
>bottleneck.
>
>Ease: higher capacity tapes reduce the amount of tape swapping that 
>needs to happen during a backup or restore. If it takes 5 tapes to 
>perform a full backup, then it'll take 5 nights before the full 
>backup is done and the first incremental backup can take place 
>meaning that some people will go 5 days between their full and 
>incremental backups. Ideally, a full backup will fit on a single 
>tape or you'll have an autoloader.
>
>Cost: lower = good but when computing the cost per GB, you must 
>factor in the cost of the tape drive as well. $7 media sounds really 
>appealing but weigh in drive cost, performance and storage capacity. 
>Below, I've computed actual cost per GB for my test scenario of 
>100GB total to backup, 3 storage sets.
>
>   Tran#Tapes  Total   True
>Model  (GB)   RatePrice Media  Req'd  Price   $/GB
>---
>VXA-1   333MB/s$539  $6712   $1,343   $3.39
>DDS-3   121MB/s$777  $1627   $1,209   $3.73
>DDS-24  .51MB/s$606   $775   $1,131   $3.77
>SC30152MB/s  

Re: Advice requested: tape system

[Daniel Knight]

>However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no longer
>a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
>data on the LAN.

I like VXA. Tapes hold 33 MB before compression, although I haven't hit 
that level on my home network -- probably due to slow 6100s and Quadras 
not able to send data fast enough. Cost for the drive ranges from $600 to 
$1200+, depending on the deal you manage to find. Tapes are $80 each.

At work, we use AIT, which has a native capacity of 25 GB and averages 
about 35 GB compressed. AIT seems to work better backing up older, slower 
Macs on the network. I've never run *under* the tapes rated capacity, as 
I did with my first VXA tape at home. Cost of drives is much higher 
($2000+). Tapes are about $80, also.

I have no experience with DLT.

Dan Knight, IS manager/webmaster  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Baker Book House Company 
6030 East Fulton   616-676-9185 x146
Ada, Michigan 49301 fax 616-676-9573

  Macs for productivity, Unix for stability, Windows for solitaire



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Advice requested: tape system

[Graham, Total Coverage Limited]

Hi
I've been using Retrospect very successfully for some while now, backing up
our small Mac LAN to recordable CDs.
However our company has grown some over time and the use of CD-R is no longer
a real option as it takes too long to do a full backup of the 30GB or so of
data on the LAN.
I am therefore looking for an economical, reliable tape based solution that
can handle the job.
There seem to be many different ysstems available on the market, but rather
than wade through a pile of manufacturer misinformation I thought I would come
straight to the horse's mouth, so to speak.
What works?

Any help or pointers that fellow list-users might be able to offer will be
gratefully received. 

Regards
Graham


Graham Mitchell
Total Coverage Limited
the co-operative design consultancy
T: 023 8067 8330
F: 023 8067 8340
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.totalcoverage.co.uk




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Re: Hubs/Switches

[David Ross]

> > A autosensing hub has a built-in 2 port switch. Any 100Mbps ports are repeated
> > together, as are the 10Mbps ports. The built in switch connects the 100Mb
> > group to the 10Mb group.
> >
> Which, by the way, creates an interesting problem when using a tool
> such as EtherPeek to record Ethernet packets.
> 
> If EtherPeek is running on a CPU with a 10 MHz Ethernet connection,
> it will see all packets going between 10 MHz connections, but will
> *not* see any of the packets going from one 100 MHz to another 100 MHz
> connection because in effect these have been switched to a separate
> 100 MHz "segment".  Very baffling until one figures out what is
> going on.

I had assumed it would be a bridge type connection, not a switch. I'll
bet both are out there. Thanks for the heads up.


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