RE: Site occupancies refinement (Many Thanks)

2014-04-29 Thread NAVEED ZAFAR
Dear Dr Peter Stephens, Dr. Martin Fisch and Dr. Noberto Masciocchi,
Many thanks for your reply and useful tips.In particularcomments from Dr. 
Noberto M. and for sparing time in rearranging my .INP file.
Best regards,
Dr Naveed Zafar Ali

Subject: Re: Site occupancies refinement
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 08:00:50 -0400
From: peter.steph...@stonybrook.edu
To: naveed...@hotmail.com
CC: rietveld_l@ill.fr

You seem to be confusing beq (thermal parameter) with site occupancy.  At a 
start, I would think that the site would have the same thermal parameter for 
either atom, and refine occupancies that sum to unity.  For example,
site A1 occ Fe feocc .9 x 0 y 0 z Az .055 beq Abeq 2site A2 occ Ru =1-feocc; x 
0 y 0 z  =Az; beq =Abeq;will put Fe and Ru in the same site, refine the iron 
occupancy (feocc), common z coordinate (Az), and give them the same isotropic 
thermal parameter (Abeq).
You could imagine that the lighter atom could have a larger thermal parameter, 
but it would be very hard to determine that from powder data because it would 
be strongly correlated with site occupancy, etc.

**Peter W. StephensProfessor, Department of Physics and 
AstronomyAssociate Dean for Curriculum, College of Arts and Sciences
Stony Brook University(631) 
632-8156http://mini.physics.sunysb.edu/~pstephensPlease update your records to 
my new email: peter.steph...@stonybrook.edu



On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:39 AM, NAVEED ZAFAR  wrote:






Dear Rietvelders, I was actually doing the site (occupancy) refinement using 
TOPAS 4.1 software.While studying the effect of doping on one crystallographic 
site.

We normally refine the sites of interest employ the following 
methodology.Consider e.g., Pervoskite structure (ABO3) as an example.If we wish 
to dope the A site in ABO3,
and to confirm whether doping was successful or not, we normally refinethe 
occupancies in the following way.
For example.We refine occupancies like occupancy of original site A   =beq1
occupancy of dopant   site A`  
=1-beq1
If the refinemnent goes well, all the crystallogrhic occupancies should merge 
to a single constant value,
those crystallographic sites which are fully occupied should give [occ=1] and 
those doped should yield net occupancies [occ (A + A`= 1].
Can anyone share or suggest,why the Beq (isotropic temperature factor) values 
are going to huge,??
at the end of such a refinement. Which otherwise should be around [ 
Beq=Uiso*8pi^2].
Also if possible share  .pro file (GUI mode or Launch mode) of such a 
refinemnet or some literature.

Best regards,Dr. Naveed Zafar Ali
  

++

Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 

Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text

The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/

++





  ++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++



Re: Site occupancies refinement

2014-04-28 Thread Peter Stephens
You seem to be confusing beq (thermal parameter) with site occupancy.  At a
start, I would think that the site would have the same thermal parameter
for either atom, and refine occupancies that sum to unity.  For example,
site A1 occ Fe feocc .9 x 0 y 0 z Az .055 beq Abeq 2
site A2 occ Ru =1-feocc; x 0 y 0 z  =Az; beq =Abeq;
will put Fe and Ru in the same site, refine the iron occupancy (feocc),
common z coordinate (Az), and give them the same isotropic thermal
parameter (Abeq).
You could imagine that the lighter atom could have a larger thermal
parameter, but it would be very hard to determine that from powder data
because it would be strongly correlated with site occupancy, etc.


**
Peter W. Stephens
Professor, Department of Physics and Astronomy
Associate Dean for Curriculum, College of Arts and Sciences
Stony Brook University
(631) 632-8156
http://mini.physics.sunysb.edu/~pstephens
Please update your records to my new email: peter.steph...@stonybrook.edu


On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:39 AM, NAVEED ZAFAR  wrote:

>
>
> *Dear Rietvelders,*
>  I was actually doing the site (occupancy) refinement using TOPAS 4.1
> software.
> While studying the effect of doping on one crystallographic site.
>
> We normally refine the sites of interest employ the following methodology.
> Consider e.g., Pervoskite structure (ABO3) as an example.
> If we wish to dope the A site in ABO3,
> and to confirm whether doping was successful or not, we normally refine
> the occupancies in the following way.
>
> For example.
> We refine occupancies like occupancy of original site A   =beq1
> occupancy of dopant   site A`  =1-beq1
>
> If the refinemnent goes well, all the crystallogrhic occupancies
> should merge to a single constant value,
> those crystallographic sites which are fully occupied should give [occ=1]
> and those doped should yield net occupancies [occ (A + A`= 1].
>
> Can anyone share or suggest,
> why the Beq (isotropic temperature factor) values are going to huge,??
> at the end of such a refinement. Which otherwise should be around [
> Beq=Uiso*8pi^2].
>
> Also if possible share  .pro file (GUI mode or Launch mode) of such a
> refinemnet or some literature.
>
> Best regards,
> *Dr. Naveed Zafar Ali*
>
>
> ++
> Please do NOT attach files to the whole list  >
> Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body
> text
> The Rietveld_L list archive is on
> http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
> ++
>
>
>
++
Please do NOT attach files to the whole list 
Send commands to  eg: HELP as the subject with no body text
The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++