Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Leo Vegoda
Hi,

Thanks to the Task Force for sharing this draft. It's a helpful start.

It would be nice to see more precision in the purposes for each
section. Ideally, each section would have a list of purposes clearly
described at its start, supported by concise reasoning. Where
appropriate, it would be helpful to explicitly call out purposes that
are out-of-scope along with the reason. Limiting the scope is probably
important for all the sections but is particularly important for the
"Other Usage" section as that could easily balloon.

I'm glad that the TF called out the possibility of including materials
related to RPKI within the scope of the RIPE Database. More detail on
this section would be interesting.

Kind regards,

Leo Vegoda



Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Randy Bush
what customers are to be served, which are highest priority, and which
are well maybe?  [ dfk and i were smiling because i used the BND as
an example in side chat ]

what are the *critical* features the high priority customers *must*
have?

randy



Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Daniel Karrenberg




Shane, TFers,

Thanks for holding the BoF and for sharing this.

To repeat and expand on my input at the BoF.

1.) I am missing language about evolution of the requirements and the 
database itself. A high level stock taking exercise like this one that 
aims to be the basis for a service has to make it explicit that it 
addresses just about one point in time and things *will* change. It 
makes sense to spend a few paragraphs on how this will be handled.


2a.) -- ‘Provide registration information of Internet number 
resources’ is a primary purpose. I would use a title like 
“Authoritative and Accurate Registry of Internet Number Resources’. 
As far as I can see it ‘Enabling transfer of IP resources’ should be 
part of that.


2b.) I suggest grouping a number of the other separate items under 
‘Facilitate Internet Operations and Operational Coordination’:

- Facilitating communication about usage of the resources
- Publishing routing policies by network operators (RIPE IRR)
- Reverse Domain Name System (rDNS)
- The RPKI Database
It is important that we emphasise the RIPE DB is not just a registry but 
an operational tool.


3.) This iteration seems too detailed for me already. The charter is 
‘… The purpose of the document is to establish community consensus 
at the general level. …’.
I think it would make sense for the TF to take a step back and look for 
the general themes behind the detailed issues. And to look at it from 
the point of view of the users, first and foremost the primary users, 
those who register information in the database and use it for 
operational purposes.


Thank you again for working on this. If it was easy it would just 
happen.


Daniel



Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Daniel Karrenberg




On 6 May 2020, at 13:53, Randy Bush wrote:


i was not even shown a recaptcha, let alone narrow sidewalks which
make one nervous in times of plague separation.  my browser is a
bit conservative.


If your browser blocks the captcha you must be a bot. ;-)

Daniel

PS: Sorry for spamming the list. This started as a private rant between 
like-minded greybeards and I did not notice it escaped. :-(




Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Randy Bush
>> oh goodie.  and then i get "Recaptcha error, Please try again."
> At least you can recognise US sidewalks. Some people from many
> places have trouble with that. … ;-)

i was not even shown a recaptcha, let alone narrow sidewalks which
make one nervous in times of plague separation.  my browser is a
bit conservative.

randy



Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Daniel Karrenberg




On 6 May 2020, at 13:47, Randy Bush wrote:


oh goodie.  and then i get "Recaptcha error, Please try again."

randy


At least you can recognise US sidewalks. Some people from many places 
have trouble with that. … ;-)




Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Randy Bush
oh goodie.  and then i get "Recaptcha error, Please try again."

randy



Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Daniel Karrenberg



On 6 May 2020, at 12:26, Shane Kerr wrote:

https://ripe.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJMkd-yhrz4uHNDuOIBm8hGvcj8DSDK1Ybog

Shane,

Thank you for the invitation. I cannot find any information why I have 
to provide registration information, who will hold that information and 
what the privacy rules for this information are. Can you enlighten me 
there?


Daniel



Re: [ripe-list] RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF

2020-05-06 Thread Shane Kerr



Dear colleagues,

Ahead of today’s BoF, we would like to share with you a working document 
listing the RIPE Database purpose and other usage.


Please note that this is still a draft and that we are sharing it now 
only to facilitate the discussion during the BoF.


You can register to the BoF at (no Zoom account required):
https://ripe.zoom.us/meeting/register/tJMkd-yhrz4uHNDuOIBm8hGvcj8DSDK1Ybog

See you soon online!

Cheers,

--
Shane


*RIPE Database Purpose (draft)*

-- Provide registration information of Internet number resources
The RIPE Database contains various data sets for all Internet number 
resources administered by the RIPE NCC. This information is vital for 
the stability and growth of the global Internet system and allows users 
to find information for network troubleshooting and Internet coordination.


As the Internet grows in scale and importance, it is imperative that 
resource holders maintain their information in the database to avoid 
inaccurate information which can slow down communication and misdirects 
investigations.


All resource holders have agreed to adhere to the RIPE NCC policies 
which include keeping registration information up to date.



-- Facilitating communication about usage of the resources
The RIPE community has tasked the RIPE NCC to manage the RIPE Database 
as a public service, therefore the RIPE Internet Number Registry (RIPE 
INR) is designed to contain all of the needed information from the 
Internet number resources managed by the RIPE NCC within its service 
region. These details in the RIPE Database are maintained jointly by the 
RIPE NCC together with the resource holders and can easily be consulted 
at any time by community members.


The members, through the availability of the RIPE Database, are 
facilitated in their tasks of coordinating between network operators 
(network problem resolution, outage notification etc.). The accuracy and 
availability of the RIPE Database ensure the correct availability of 
information related to the resources and their holders and maintainers 
(RIPE INR) and the uniqueness of Internet number resources usage through 
registration.


The registry plays an important part in the operational coordination 
between Internet operators, because the design of the RIPE Database has 
to provide accurate registration information of the Internet number 
resources in order to meet a variety of operational requirements. 
Transparency and accountability of the administration of Internet number 
resources has always been very important, and the correct publication of 
the registry is an essential element of this transparency and 
accountability.



-- Publishing routing policies by network operators (RIPE IRR)
An important subset of the RIPE Database is the RIPE Routing Registry 
which holds information about routing on the Internet. The routing 
information is stored in routing policy information described in 
Autonomous System (AS) objects. The information in these AS objects 
shows how a particular network is routed on the internet. Announcing 
routing policies in the routing registry gives network operators an 
opportunity to configure their routers and filters accordingly.


The RIPE Routing Registry is a part of the Internet Routing Registry 
(IRR), a collection of databases that mirror each other. The IRR is a 
globally distributed routing information database purposed to ensure the 
stability and consistency of Internet-wide routing by sharing 
information between network operators.



-- Reverse Domain Name System (rDNS)
The DNS Reverse Mapping is a DNS based service to map IP addresses back 
to domain names.  The reverse DNS tree is structured to follow the 
address 'hierarchy' for both IPv4 (on octet boundaries) and IPv6 (on 
nibble boundaries). There is no formalised DNS mapping service for ASNs.


Since the DNS reverse mapping is closely tied to the address space, 
delegations usually go to the party registered as holder for that 
particular address space. Providing DNS reverse mapping management 
functions (which do not include DNS name service itself) can be seen as 
a genuine function of both an RIR and an LIR. The RIPE Database is used 
as a provisioning and documentation tool for reverse DNS for IP 
addresses under RIPE NCC management. This enables the use of the core 
address registry for provisioning authorisation purposes (reverse 
mapping follows inetnum: and inet6num:).


There are operational procedures, including technical checks, that guide 
the operation of the reverse DNS by the RIPE NCC. Those have been 
developed and maintained under guidance from the DNS and Database 
working groups. Other, non DNS specific, general rules apply to the 
objects used for provisioning reverse DNS to the database.



-- The RPKI Database
The Resource Public Key Infrastructure (RPKI) allows digital 
certificates to be associated to number resources, thereby providing 
resource holders with proof of holdership.


Each LIR