Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[David Klann]

Hi Aaron,

On Sat, 2019-10-26 at 19:28 +0100, you wrote:
> One significant caveat when using JACK and Rivendell 3.X is that jackd(1)
> MUST
> 
> > run as Linux user `root`. Previous Rivendell versions could work around
> > this
> > constraint, but it's not possible without code changes in Rivendell 3.X.
> > This
> > means that all applications using JACK must also run as Linux user `root`.
> > This, to me, is another significant reason to use Rivendell computers only
> > for
> > Rivendell applications, and use different computers for general audio
> > applications.
> 
> I have a work around for this. I run jack in promiscuous mode as the rd
> user and keep the rd daemons running as root (I found to not run them as
> root breaks the RN macro).
> 

What is this promiscuous mode you speak of?!?!? Looking thru the jack2 commit
logs, I see that it has been part of JACK since Oct 2014 or longer
("promiscuous-v2" committed just before the tag "1.9.12" was added)?!

This is awesome! It appears that version 1.9.12 is shipped with CentOS 8, so
with any luck and some time maybe this long-standing JACK issue with perms and
users will be put to bed.

Thanks for this update Aaron.

Fred, do you have thoughts on this?

Thanks!

  ~David Klann

> I have this working for a client using centos 7 with Fred’s repo. I had to
> rebuild the jack rpm to the latest version to get promiscuous support. I
> also had to rebuild pulseaudio to include jack support so I could use
> linphone on the same setup.
> 
> In then have a systemd script which starts jack as the user.
> 




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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Aaron]

One significant caveat when using JACK and Rivendell 3.X is that jackd(1)
MUST

> run as Linux user `root`. Previous Rivendell versions could work around
> this
> constraint, but it's not possible without code changes in Rivendell 3.X.
> This
> means that all applications using JACK must also run as Linux user `root`.
> This, to me, is another significant reason to use Rivendell computers only
> for
> Rivendell applications, and use different computers for general audio
> applications.


I have a work around for this. I run jack in promiscuous mode as the rd
user and keep the rd daemons running as root (I found to not run them as
root breaks the RN macro).

I have this working for a client using centos 7 with Fred’s repo. I had to
rebuild the jack rpm to the latest version to get promiscuous support. I
also had to rebuild pulseaudio to include jack support so I could use
linphone on the same setup.

In then have a systemd script which starts jack as the user.
-- 
Regards,
Aaron Horn,
aaronh...@gmail.com.
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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Rob Landry]

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019, David Klann wrote:

One significant caveat when using JACK and Rivendell 3.X is that 
jackd(1) MUST run as Linux user `root`. Previous Rivendell versions 
could work around this constraint, but it's not possible without code 
changes in Rivendell 3.X.


Fortunately, all my clients are sticking with 2.19.3 for now.


Rob
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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Rob Landry]

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019, Stan Fotinos wrote:


Rivendell takes total control of the soundcard that is why you can not see
it in Audacity. Using Jack audio is a solution but from what I know (I'm
sure someone else can assist here) this is tricky too.


As it happens, I've been working on this very problem for one of my 
clients. He is not using Audioscience cards on thit particular machine, 
but needs Rivendell and Audacity to share a sound card.


Rivendell normally runs as root, but if you run it as 'rd', it will work 
with JACK. Audacity is also JACK-compatible. If the goal is to get both to 
play from the same sound card, this is not hard, but if you want Audacity 
to feed Rivendell, it's very clunky because Audacity only appear as a JACK 
soure while it is actually playing. I've yet to find a satisfactory 
solution.



Rob

--
Сквозь грозы сияло нам солнце свободы
И Linus великий нам путь озарил;
Нас вырастил Stallman на верность народу,
На труд и на подвиги нас вдохновил.



Thanks

Stan



On 18/10/2019 11:44 pm, Mark Murdock wrote:

  Strictly speaking this is not a Rivendell issue, but I hope
  someone can help with this. I have installed CentOS 7 -
  Rivendell systems on two identical computers with Audioscience
  6640 cards, and Rivendell is working perfectly. However for
  production we use Audacity, and when I start Audacity it does
  not recognize the sound card, and thus does not work. If I go to
  Help – Audio Device Info, Audacity says “No Devices Found.” Any
  ideas?

   

  Thanks!

   

  Mark Murdock

  KAMB

  90 E. 16th St.

  Merced, CA 95340

  (209) 723-1015

  m...@celebrationradio.com

  Website

   


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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Schwoon, newsletter]

Am 18.10.2019 18:57, schrieb David Klann:

On Fri, 2019-10-18 at 11:58 -0400, al davis wrote:

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:44:21 +
Mark Murdock  wrote:
> However for production we use Audacity, and when I start Audacity it does
> not recognize the sound card, and thus does not work. If I go to Help -
> Audio Device Info, Audacity says "No Devices Found." Any ideas?

Rivendell takes over a sound card, so you can't use it for anything
else at the same time.  This is by design.



This is true. The other option is to use the audio routing app JACK (
https://jackaudio.org/). JACK enables sharing of audio resources 
between

higher-level applications (and is supported in Rivendell).

The Rivendell wiki has some information about implementing JACK on a 
Rivendell
computer. In my opinion the current best practice is to let Rivendell 
start
the JACK service daemon and use the JACK Clients entries in 
RDAdmin->Manage

Hosts->->JACK Settings.

One significant caveat when using JACK and Rivendell 3.X is that 
jackd(1) MUST

run as Linux user `root`.


MUST.?? I've added a line in systemd configfile "user=rd" and can run 
all other application
like audacity, VLC, qjackctl,stereotool... as normal user. But after the 
switch from 3.0 to 3.1 i got some
problems with laggy response inside the voicetracker and rdlibrary/edit 
marker... as written in my post 7 days ago..





Previous Rivendell versions could work around this
constraint, but it's not possible without code changes in Rivendell 
3.X. This
means that all applications using JACK must also run as Linux user 
`root`.
This, to me, is another significant reason to use Rivendell computers 
only for

Rivendell applications, and use different computers for general audio
applications.

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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Mark Murdock]

I think what we’ll probably do is just keep windows machines in the studios for 
multi-track production. Seems the simplest solution to me. Thanks to all who 
responded!

Mark
KAMB

From: rivendell-dev-boun...@lists.rivendellaudio.org 
 On Behalf Of Fred Gleason
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 4:06 PM
To: Lorne Tyndale 
Cc: Rivendell List 
Subject: Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

On Oct 18, 2019, at 14:40, Lorne Tyndale 
mailto:ltynd...@tyndaleweb.com>> wrote:

I could be incorrect, but I seem to recall that Jack doesn't work with
the Audioscience drivers, so this might not even be a potential solution
for Mark.

You can, by disabling the HPI driver and re-enabling the snd-asihpi ALSA 
driver, but that seems rather self-defeating to me. Why spend $$$ for a 
high-end card that is specially optimized for radio automation and then 'dumb 
it down’ to the level of a Sound Blaster?


The easiest is probably to just add another sound card.

++

Cheers!


|-|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
|   | Paravel Systems |
|-|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| |
| -- Cicero   |
|-|


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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Fred Gleason]

On Oct 18, 2019, at 14:40, Lorne Tyndale  wrote:

> I could be incorrect, but I seem to recall that Jack doesn't work with
> the Audioscience drivers, so this might not even be a potential solution
> for Mark.

You can, by disabling the HPI driver and re-enabling the snd-asihpi ALSA 
driver, but that seems rather self-defeating to me. Why spend $$$ for a 
high-end card that is specially optimized for radio automation and then 'dumb 
it down’ to the level of a Sound Blaster?


> The easiest is probably to just add another sound card.

++

Cheers!


|-|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
|   | Paravel Systems |
|-|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| |
| -- Cicero   |
|-|

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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Fred Gleason]

On Oct 18, 2019, at 11:44, Mark Murdock  wrote:

> Strictly speaking this is not a Rivendell issue, but I hope someone can help 
> with this. I have installed CentOS 7 - Rivendell systems on two identical 
> computers with Audioscience 6640 cards, and Rivendell is working perfectly. 
> However for production we use Audacity, and when I start Audacity it does not 
> recognize the sound card, and thus does not work. If I go to Help – Audio 
> Device Info, Audacity says “No Devices Found.” Any ideas?

All good information from the other posters on this thread! However, let me add 
a bit of additional nuance:

If you are using the standard Paravel setup on CentOS 7, AudioScience cards 
automatically get setup to use a special “HPI” driver (different from the ALSA 
driver used for all other sound cards). This has two important effects:

1) It lets Rivendell use several “advanced features” on the AudioScience card 
that are not available via the standard ALSA driver.

2) It makes the AudioScience card invisible to applications that don’t know how 
to use this special HPI driver —effectively, invisible to everything except 
Rivendell.

The way around this is indeed to use another, non-AudioScience card to 
interface with Audacity. In this specific case (Rivendell using an AudioScience 
card), you don’t need to worry about those cards conflicting with each other; 
they each inhabit separate “domains” as it were.

N.B. - If *neither* card is an AudioScience one, then you do indeed need to be 
careful about configuring which one gets used where, as noted by al davis in 
his post.

Cheers!


|-|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer |
|   | Paravel Systems |
|-|
| A room without books is like a body without a soul. |
| |
| -- Cicero   |
|-|

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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Lorne Tyndale]

Hi,

I could be incorrect, but I seem to recall that Jack doesn't work with
the Audioscience drivers, so this might not even be a potential solution
for Mark.

On another note, I did mange to get Jack and Rivendell 3 running under
the logged in user, it took some messing around with the systemd files
(I can't stand systemd, can we get rid of it?) but there were a couple
of other things that I found which then broke, so I can't recommend
going that route.  

The easiest is probably to just add another sound card.

> 
> On Fri, 2019-10-18 at 11:58 -0400, al davis wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:44:21 +
> > Mark Murdock  wrote:
> > > However for production we use Audacity, and when I start Audacity it does
> > > not recognize the sound card, and thus does not work. If I go to Help -
> > > Audio Device Info, Audacity says "No Devices Found." Any ideas?
> > 
> > Rivendell takes over a sound card, so you can't use it for anything
> > else at the same time.  This is by design.
> > 
> 
> This is true. The other option is to use the audio routing app JACK (
> https://jackaudio.org/). JACK enables sharing of audio resources between
> higher-level applications (and is supported in Rivendell).
> 
> The Rivendell wiki has some information about implementing JACK on a Rivendell
> computer. In my opinion the current best practice is to let Rivendell start
> the JACK service daemon and use the JACK Clients entries in RDAdmin->Manage
> Hosts->->JACK Settings.
> 
> One significant caveat when using JACK and Rivendell 3.X is that jackd(1) MUST
> run as Linux user `root`. Previous Rivendell versions could work around this
> constraint, but it's not possible without code changes in Rivendell 3.X. This
> means that all applications using JACK must also run as Linux user `root`.
> This, to me, is another significant reason to use Rivendell computers only for
> Rivendell applications, and use different computers for general audio
> applications.
> 
> -- 
>   ~David Klann
>broadcasttool.com
>Broadcast Tool & Die ∴ The Power of &
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[David Klann]

On Fri, 2019-10-18 at 11:58 -0400, al davis wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:44:21 +
> Mark Murdock  wrote:
> > However for production we use Audacity, and when I start Audacity it does
> > not recognize the sound card, and thus does not work. If I go to Help -
> > Audio Device Info, Audacity says "No Devices Found." Any ideas?
> 
> Rivendell takes over a sound card, so you can't use it for anything
> else at the same time.  This is by design.
> 

This is true. The other option is to use the audio routing app JACK (
https://jackaudio.org/). JACK enables sharing of audio resources between
higher-level applications (and is supported in Rivendell).

The Rivendell wiki has some information about implementing JACK on a Rivendell
computer. In my opinion the current best practice is to let Rivendell start
the JACK service daemon and use the JACK Clients entries in RDAdmin->Manage
Hosts->->JACK Settings.

One significant caveat when using JACK and Rivendell 3.X is that jackd(1) MUST
run as Linux user `root`. Previous Rivendell versions could work around this
constraint, but it's not possible without code changes in Rivendell 3.X. This
means that all applications using JACK must also run as Linux user `root`.
This, to me, is another significant reason to use Rivendell computers only for
Rivendell applications, and use different computers for general audio
applications.

-- 
  ~David Klann
   broadcasttool.com
   Broadcast Tool & Die ∴ The Power of &



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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Stan Fotinos]

Hi Mark

Rivendell takes total control of the soundcard that is why you can not 
see it in Audacity. Using Jack audio is a solution but from what I know 
(I'm sure someone else can assist here) this is tricky too.


Thanks

Stan



On 18/10/2019 11:44 pm, Mark Murdock wrote:


Strictly speaking this is not a Rivendell issue, but I hope someone 
can help with this. I have installed CentOS 7 - Rivendell systems on 
two identical computers with Audioscience 6640 cards, and Rivendell is 
working perfectly. However for production we use Audacity, and when I 
start Audacity it does not recognize the sound card, and thus does not 
work. If I go to Help – Audio Device Info, Audacity says “No Devices 
Found.” Any ideas?


Thanks!

Mark Murdock

KAMB

90 E. 16^th St.

Merced, CA 95340

(209) 723-1015

m...@celebrationradio.com 

Website 


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Re: [RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[al davis]

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:44:21 +
Mark Murdock  wrote:
> However for production we use Audacity, and when I start Audacity it does not 
> recognize the sound card, and thus does not work. If I go to Help - Audio 
> Device Info, Audacity says "No Devices Found." Any ideas?

Rivendell takes over a sound card, so you can't use it for anything
else at the same time.  This is by design.

If you want to run Rivendell and Audacity on the same computer, you
need to install another sound card.  You also need to configure the
boot sequence to make sure the two cards you have are properly
assigned.  The boot files need to specify explicitly that the one used
for Audacity is always "card 0" and the one used for Rivendell is "card
1".  Assuming you are using Pulse-audio (usually the default) you need
to make sure that Pulse is using the card not used by Rivendell.

Sometimes (depending on your hardware) installing another sound card
tells the boot rom to disable the built-in sound card.  If you want to
use the built-in card, you need to go into the boot rom and set it so
both cards can be active.

It has been a long time since I did this, so I don't have details handy.
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[RDD] Audacity on a Rivendell setup

[Mark Murdock]

Strictly speaking this is not a Rivendell issue, but I hope someone can help 
with this. I have installed CentOS 7 - Rivendell systems on two identical 
computers with Audioscience 6640 cards, and Rivendell is working perfectly. 
However for production we use Audacity, and when I start Audacity it does not 
recognize the sound card, and thus does not work. If I go to Help - Audio 
Device Info, Audacity says "No Devices Found." Any ideas?

Thanks!

Mark Murdock
KAMB
90 E. 16th St.
Merced, CA 95340
(209) 723-1015
m...@celebrationradio.com
Website

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