Re: [RDD] Considering 2 very different hardware platforms for new rdAirPlay machines....

2017-05-25 Thread Alex Hartman 
I do like playing in the virtual world, but when it's on the air and making
money, VM's can get expensive. Using the free ESXi option for instance, i'd
have 2 if not 3 servers, and I'd want to be able to vMotion live VM's
between the bare metal, that's not a cheap option at all.

I have 2 DL580 G7's with 4x e7-4870's and 256Gb of ram strapped to a 24Tb
NAS for storage doing 35 automation systems, 10 "desktops" to do traffic
and scheduling, etc, and it doesn't break a sweat in my lab.Granted it
wants a LOT of wall power (each 580 has 4x 1200w power supplies!)

But, with that hardware, theoretically, it could run upwards of 120 VMs
before hitting a hardware limitation (mostly RAM limited). Now, just
because you can, doesn't always mean you should. In this instance, i'd have
no problem virtualizing the prod rooms and other things, but for the on-air
playback, i'd think i'd keep those bare metal machines, just because it's a
little easier to work with. (It takes a little brainpower to create a
handful of vSwitches to schlep Axia around, file shares, plus keeping the
VM datastore on it's own link.)

It's not that it CAN'T be done, it's a question of should you do it.



--
Alex Hartman

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Cowboy  wrote:

> On Fri, 19 May 2017 12:50:57 -0500
> Kirk Harnack  wrote:
>
> > I'm considering going in one of two directions.
>
>  Hey, Kirk...
>
>  I'm going to suggest a third direction.
>
>  We're running the network on 14 virtual Rivendell installations,
>  ( and one or two real ) and two servers.
>  It's all redundant and sync'd.
>
>  The servers are nothing to write home about, but they don't have to be.
>  The virtual host machines are 8 core I-7's with 16G Ram and 1T
>  RAID-1, with two ASI Livewire cards each.
>
>  A lot of bang for the buck, and not a lot to maintain.
>  ( compared to running each one discrete )
>  Those disks are largely unused, but as disks go they're cheap, and as
>  this started as a bit of a science experiment we wanted to be sure
>  there'd be enough. Truth be told, 150G would have been enough, but we
>  learned. We're on our 4th incantation working the bugs out.
>  Ask Fred when you both have some spare time.
>
>  The displays in the studios ( and elsewhere ) are RaspberryPI
>  throw-a-way's.
>  I don't think I'd try to run Riv. actually on the Raspberries, but as
>  essentially KVM displays it's working great !
>
> --
> Cowboy
>
> http://cowboy.cwf1.com
>
> Software efficiency halves every 18 months, thus compensating for
> Moore's Law
>
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Re: [RDD] Considering 2 very different hardware platforms for new rdAirPlay machines....

2017-05-25 Thread Cowboy 
On Fri, 19 May 2017 12:50:57 -0500
Kirk Harnack  wrote:

> I'm considering going in one of two directions.

 Hey, Kirk...

 I'm going to suggest a third direction.

 We're running the network on 14 virtual Rivendell installations,
 ( and one or two real ) and two servers.
 It's all redundant and sync'd.

 The servers are nothing to write home about, but they don't have to be.
 The virtual host machines are 8 core I-7's with 16G Ram and 1T
 RAID-1, with two ASI Livewire cards each.

 A lot of bang for the buck, and not a lot to maintain.
 ( compared to running each one discrete )
 Those disks are largely unused, but as disks go they're cheap, and as
 this started as a bit of a science experiment we wanted to be sure
 there'd be enough. Truth be told, 150G would have been enough, but we
 learned. We're on our 4th incantation working the bugs out.
 Ask Fred when you both have some spare time.

 The displays in the studios ( and elsewhere ) are RaspberryPI
 throw-a-way's.
 I don't think I'd try to run Riv. actually on the Raspberries, but as
 essentially KVM displays it's working great !

-- 
Cowboy

http://cowboy.cwf1.com

Software efficiency halves every 18 months, thus compensating for
Moore's Law

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Re: [RDD] Considering 2 very different hardware platforms for new rdAirPlay machines....

2017-05-19 Thread Bill Putney 

Kirk,

Can we assume you are using LiveWire for audio interfaces?

I'm building a mobile studio Rivendell standalone using a Qutom fanless 
with a 2.0 GHz quad-core Intel Celeron processor, 8GB of memory, 16GB of 
SSD and 1 - 10/100/1G Ethernet. They consume 10W at 12VDC and they come 
with a US power supply. I'm buying them right from Qotom in China. The 
price was $175 plus shipping from China ($26 + $9 transfer fee). You can 
get lots of different add-ons but this configuration should be plenty 
for a client. Since there are no moving parts it should last until the 
capacitors dry out.


I think the NUCs of an equivalent horsepower are a little more money but 
they should work as clients.


For my mobile studio I'm using a USB3 3TB disk drive to store the audio. 
I have an Asus touch screen to attach to it. Should be a fun box. For 
the mobile studio I can't use LiveWire so I'm going with a Pevey USB-P 
to interface to the mobile studio's analog board.


The Optiplex computers are really enterprise class. You could just 
replace the disks with SSD's and replace the fans. There's plenty of 
horsepower in the Optiplexs. People are running Rivendell on Raspberry Pi's.


Bill Putney - WB6RFW
Chief Engineer
KPTZ - Port Townsend, WA

PP-SEL/A

I'm at it again... Running for Port Director. If you're interested: 
http://PutneyForThePort.VOTE

On 5/19/17 10:50 AM, Kirk Harnack wrote:

Dear braintrust,

Please direct me elsewhere if this has been discussed and answered 
already; I'm new to this list.


I'm currently running 5 radio stations, using Rivendell in a 
server/client setup.  The client machines (running rdAirPlay) are some 
refurbished Dell Optiplex PCs.  They're now almost 3 years older than 
when we put them online in this role.  No serious issues yet, but I 
feel they're getting old and they're perhaps a bit underpowered.


I'm considering going in one of two directions.

1. Using refurbished Dell R610 server-grade hardware. Nice-looking 
ones are about $200 on ebay, with all the rack-mount hardware.  They 
sport dual power supplies.  They come with one hard drive of 146 GB. I 
could add a 2nd and RAID them.  They're very noisy, but they'll go in 
a rack room. Hard to imagine the noise of 5 of them, however.


2. Go with an Intel NUC-style platform.  No fans.  Likely enough 
horsepower. Cost more (as they're new, not refurb); indeed, the ones I 
seem to need are about $500 each. I would need to get NUCs that have 2 
NICs, as we use an Axia network in addition to our Rivendell network - 
and we keep them separate.  Perhaps someone could point me to a 
known-good model that costs closer to $200 or $300?


I like the robustness of the Dell R610's, they're easy availability, 
and the likelihood of parts availability for some time.  I do not like 
the size and noise.


I like the NUC-style machines for their low power consumption, 
quietness, and that they'd be new.


As the role for these is simply to run rdAirPlay, grabbing files over 
the network from the rdServer, seems the hard drive doesn't need to be 
large.



Thoughts?

Thanks!

Kirk




--
Kirk A. Harnack, CBRE, CBNE
k...@harnack.com 

http://twitter.com/kharnack
https://www.facebook.com/kharnack
http://www.youtube.com/kharnack



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Re: [RDD] Considering 2 very different hardware platforms for new rdAirPlay machines....

2017-05-19 Thread Alex Hartman 
Having been a Dell guy most my life, im digging these HP DL360 gen6
machines. Basically the same as an R610 as far as performance, but
amazingly VERY quiet if you give them some breathing room. I just built a
standalone RD machine with one of the 6 I have for some experimental work,
and am very happy with the performance.

Quad core xeon, 18Gb ram, I added 4 146Gb 2.5 inch sas drives running in
RAID 0+1. Dual power supplies, dual onboard gig NIC. Only has PCIe, no PCI
slots, so Axia or a newer ASI card (or in my instance USB interface) for
audio solutions. But from cold boot to usable audio is under 2 minutes
(server class stuff has a very long POST).

They can be had on ebay for about the same price as the R610, often times
about 50 bucks less.





On May 19, 2017 12:51 PM, "Kirk Harnack"  wrote:

> Dear braintrust,
>
> Please direct me elsewhere if this has been discussed and answered
> already; I'm new to this list.
>
> I'm currently running 5 radio stations, using Rivendell in a server/client
> setup.  The client machines (running rdAirPlay) are some refurbished Dell
> Optiplex PCs.  They're now almost 3 years older than when we put them
> online in this role.  No serious issues yet, but I feel they're getting old
> and they're perhaps a bit underpowered.
>
> I'm considering going in one of two directions.
>
> 1. Using refurbished Dell R610 server-grade hardware.  Nice-looking ones
> are about $200 on ebay, with all the rack-mount hardware.  They sport dual
> power supplies.  They come with one hard drive of 146 GB. I could add a 2nd
> and RAID them.  They're very noisy, but they'll go in a rack room.  Hard to
> imagine the noise of 5 of them, however.
>
> 2. Go with an Intel NUC-style platform.  No fans.  Likely enough
> horsepower. Cost more (as they're new, not refurb); indeed, the ones I seem
> to need are about $500 each. I would need to get NUCs that have 2 NICs, as
> we use an Axia network in addition to our Rivendell network - and we keep
> them separate.  Perhaps someone could point me to a known-good model that
> costs closer to $200 or $300?
>
> I like the robustness of the Dell R610's, they're easy availability, and
> the likelihood of parts availability for some time.  I do not like the size
> and noise.
>
> I like the NUC-style machines for their low power consumption, quietness,
> and that they'd be new.
>
> As the role for these is simply to run rdAirPlay, grabbing files over the
> network from the rdServer, seems the hard drive doesn't need to be large.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kirk
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kirk A. Harnack, CBRE, CBNE
> k...@harnack.com
>
> http://twitter.com/kharnack
> https://www.facebook.com/kharnack
> http://www.youtube.com/kharnack
>
>
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>
>
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