Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
On Feb 21, 2014, at 18:15 28, Cowboy wrote: > I don't disagree, but I didn't hate them either. > As far as I know, I'm one of an elite group who could keep the > things relatively aligned ! IIRC, the trick was to start with the bottom deck, then work up. Order mattered! Mind you, last I touched one of these was ca. 1986... Cheers! |-| | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer | | | Paravel Systems | |-| | The day-to-day travails of the Windows (tm) programmer are so amusing | | to most of us who are fortunate enough never to have been one -- like | | watching Charlie Chaplin trying to cook a shoe. | |-| ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
On Friday 21 February 2014 05:06:01 pm Jim Stewart wrote: > >Trouble is, I'm not sure how best to recreate the "two triple deckers" model. > (as an engineer, I always hated these things, three separate machines were so > much better!) > I don't disagree, but I didn't hate them either. As far as I know, I'm one of an elite group who could keep the things relatively aligned ! -- Cowboy http://cowboy.cwf1.com "Being disintegrated makes me ve-ry an-gry!" ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
>Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:24:35 -0600 >From: Keith Thelen >To: rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org >Subject: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay >Message-ID: <6c1add1f-c327-4d08-a84a-479305c17...@kanabec.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >Hello all! >I'm currently planning a Rivendell install that would take the place of a >stack of cart machines and paper logs (no joke). The goal is to Can you even buy blank carts anymore? Not to mention new pinch rollers for the machines? >eliminate the flaky cart equipment and permit automation in certain dayparts, >while still accommodating existing skills and habits during >live shifts. >Trouble is, I'm not sure how best to recreate the "two triple deckers" model. (as an engineer, I always hated these things, three separate machines were so much better!) I'm going to by trying to encourage you to move away from this model, see below. I know it can be hard to teach old dogs new tricks, but in this case I've seen it done successfully over and over again. >The log outputs in rdairplay are limited to two per log, which would make it >rather difficult to pull off, say, a triple segue in Manual mode (which is >likely to happen). Agreed, but for other play-out systems that do this (separate outputs per last 3 "cued up" carts), in practice it doesn't work out as well as you'd think as it has a similar problem to your moving carts up the log confusion problem you also describe below. > How are others with live music-based formats dealing with the two output > limitation? Okay, here is what I think works best, and have used it on lots of similar play-out systems (like WideOribit/Scott-Studios, BSI, Enco, etc.) First I have the "main log" simply play out of one output, as in one channel on the mixer board. Everywhere that staff has demanded that I give them separate channels per cart, they have NEVER actively used it as it is simply too hard to (under a fast paced live situation) figure out which cart is playing out of which output at any one time, so they tend to adjust all three levels at the same time just to be sure! Secondly, use the right-hand pane "button panel" (for this discussion I'm referring to the right-hand pane button widget of rdairplay, not the separate "rdpanel" program) for jock's bed music, sound effects or other elements that they might want to play at any time without having to schedule them (or insert them) in the main log. That is what this is really for, notice each jock can have their own customized panel too. This panel needs its own audio out and mixing channel on the board (likely more than one). Finally don't fire carts directly off the touch screen cart icons (at least not normally) because of reasons you listed below (too confusing). Instead use the space-bar play-next function or better yet wire a GPI remote start wired to the remote start for that channel on your mixing board (if you have a traditional broadcast mixing board with this capability). Optionally you can configure one of the buttons on the button panel to be the "play next" button (and color code it special as well). Note there now is a distinction between carts that appear on a scheduled log (music, commercials, liners, Ids, etc.) and "Live element" carts such as sound effects, music beds, etc. that probably didn't exist for you before. These can (and probably will) overlap in some cases. So in practice it goes like this: Scheduled programming (like music) gets to a "live break" in the log where the system goes to "live assist" mode, as the music fades the jock has his/her microphone channel already open and may choose to talk at any time, then optionally fire off some bed music, as well as some sound effects, or "imaging" elements (you might need more than one audio channel for the button panel so to control more than one element separately). The jock has individual control of either the sum of the "music" that might be playing (either fading in or out) on one control (consistently) and at least one control for their "extra" elements, and so can fade them in/out separately as they see fit. At the end of their "live break" they simply hit the "start" button and it takes up playing (and they can continue to talk over it if they want to) the log until the next scheduled "live break". I think most radio stations that actually do live segments, (too many just "voice track" these days, but don't get me started), do something similar to this regardless of the play-out software used. I've witnessed many radio stations making your transition in the past, granted there was initial "kicking and screaming&
Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
On Feb 21, 2014, at 13:04 32, Keith Thelen wrote: > I would - but losing the paper logs is a big part of the upgrade, and > rdcartslots doesn't seem to support opening or displaying a log (you'd have > to, say, open rdlogedit next to it - not the best solution). Gotcha. > Also, I want to update to the current version before saying for sure (was > using a machine running 2.4.0 for the experiment), but I may have spotted a > bug. Has anyone else noticed that rdcartslots always shows ":00" for the > cart's lead-in time, even if a different talk length is set? There have been many bug fixes to RDCartSlots since v2.4.0. You definitely want to upgrade before working with it. Cheers! |-| | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer | | | Paravel Systems | |-| | A room without books is like a body without a soul.| | -- Cicero | |-| ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
On Feb 21, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Alan Peterson wrote: > If that "Old Gang of Yours" is used to cart decks, what about just using the > RDCartSlots module by itself in the clear? I would - but losing the paper logs is a big part of the upgrade, and rdcartslots doesn't seem to support opening or displaying a log (you'd have to, say, open rdlogedit next to it - not the best solution). If rdcartslots had a "box" on the right side into which a log could be loaded, and something like a "Move" button - similar to rdairplay - that'd be perfect. But if I can't find a better way, there might be a "two window solution" in these folks' futures. Ugly? Yes... but C hacking is beyond my abilities. Also, I want to update to the current version before saying for sure (was using a machine running 2.4.0 for the experiment), but I may have spotted a bug. Has anyone else noticed that rdcartslots always shows ":00" for the cart's lead-in time, even if a different talk length is set? --- Keith Thelen Kanabec Systems ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
Yeah, but he told me he's trying to kill the paper logs too. - Original Message - From: "Fred Gleason" To: "User discussion about the Rivendell Radio Automation System" Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 10:38:36 AM Subject: Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay On Feb 20, 2014, at 19:24 35, Keith Thelen wrote: > Trouble is, I'm not sure how best to recreate the "two triple deckers" model. RDCartSlots, configured with two columns and three rows. QED. Cheers! |-| | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer | | | Paravel Systems | |-| | A room without books is like a body without a soul.| | -- Cicero | |-| ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
On Feb 20, 2014, at 19:24 35, Keith Thelen wrote: > Trouble is, I'm not sure how best to recreate the "two triple deckers" model. RDCartSlots, configured with two columns and three rows. QED. Cheers! |-| | Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief Developer | | | Paravel Systems | |-| | A room without books is like a body without a soul.| | -- Cicero | |-| ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
Re: [RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
Keith, If that "Old Gang of Yours" is used to cart decks, what about just using the RDCartSlots module by itself in the clear? -AP ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
[RDD] Old-timers and rdairplay
Hello all! I'm currently planning a Rivendell install that would take the place of a stack of cart machines and paper logs (no joke). The goal is to eliminate the flaky cart equipment and permit automation in certain dayparts, while still accommodating existing skills and habits during live shifts. Trouble is, I'm not sure how best to recreate the "two triple deckers" model. The log outputs in rdairplay are limited to two per log, which would make it rather difficult to pull off, say, a triple segue in Manual mode (which is likely to happen). The panels can have up to five outputs assigned, but I can't load a log into a panel. And splitting everything into multiple logs isn't an attractive option. How are others with live music-based formats dealing with the two output limitation? Also related: during initial experimentation (using a touchscreen), I noticed users frequently getting tripped up by carts automatically disappearing from the top of the "stack" as they finished playing. As Cart 1 was finishing, they'd have their finger over the start button for Cart 2. But as Cart 1 disappeared, they'd accidentally start Cart 3, skipping Cart 2 altogether. The easy option would be to set the cut end mark farther out where possible - or perhaps wire up remote starts, or make them use the space bar. But I know what they'd like to see: an "unload" button and persistent carts, both of which would only appear in Manual mode. I'm not sure if all that is necessary. (Too bad rdcartslots can't load logs…) Has anyone else run into this? If so, what did you do? --- Keith Thelen ___ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
