Re: [rohrpost] The Feeling of Being Watched / Diskussionsbedarf

[Andreas Broeckmann]

Falls jemand noch weiteren Diskussionsbedarf sieht, bietet sich 
vielleicht hier Gelegenheit:


Symposium, 2.6.23 und 3.6.23, Pittlerwerke

https://www.dimensions-digital-art.de/termine/das-symposium


Am 05.05.23 um 06:48 schrieb Andreas Broeckmann:

Carsten, man hat in Leipzig diskutiert:


 Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
Betreff: artwashing
Datum: Fri, 5 May 2023 10:07:12 +0800
Von: Yuhsin Su 
An: Andreas Broeckmann 

Dear Andreas,



I would like to share with you the Open Letter regarding the involvement 
of the surveillance company Palantir with the digital art exhibition 
'Dimensions' at Pittlerwerke Leipzig. Francis, our colleagues and I 
initiated this letter.


The letter is online in German and English here: 
https://artwashing-leipzig.de/


There you can also sign the letter.



warmly,
Yuhsin


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Re: [rohrpost] The Feeling of Being Watched

[Carsten Stabenow]

dear institut für alles mögliche, yes, this is indeed worthwile discussing – 
always a question of individual/subjective ethical judgement and decision 
making...
sometimes there are certain thresholds, for me that was reached with palantir 
in that context and my post was to check if it was just me…
all the best, c.

> Am 05.05.2023 um 09:41 schrieb i...@i-a-m.tk:
> 
> dear carsten and all … the more i follow your discussions and the more i read 
> into this the more i ask myself if there is a funding structure that would be 
> acceptable? one that is free from art washing? one that is writing any better 
> history? if there is "clean money" in the first place? to what extend it is 
> acceptable to be funded? which companies are ok to be funded by and which are 
> not? and where exactly is the edge?
> 
> i find it (soritical) paradox to see artists withdraw from collections, 
> protest against certain strategies money takes, demand "criticality“ and so 
> on … i find myself thinking it could be state funding (which in the end means 
> funding with forced labor) … i find it really puzzling … 
> 
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Institut für Alles Mögliche
> www.institutfuerallesmoegliche.net
> 
> instagram us! 
> www.instagram.com/das.institut
> 
> Am 05.05.2023 um 08:49 schrieb Carsten Stabenow :
> 
> agf, andreas - thank you for forwarding! good to read this letter and the 
> names on the list.
> best, carsten
> 
>> Am 05.05.2023 um 07:48 schrieb AGF :
>> 
>> engl version pls spread
>> https://artwashing-leipzig.de/open-letter/
>> 
>> AGF: @poemproducer  rec-on.org
>> 
>>> On 5. May 2023, at 7.49, Andreas Broeckmann 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carsten, man hat in Leipzig diskutiert:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
>>> Betreff:artwashing
>>> Datum:Fri, 5 May 2023 10:07:12 +0800
>>> Von:Yuhsin Su 
>>> An:Andreas Broeckmann 
>>> 
>>> Dear Andreas,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would like to share with you the Open Letter regarding the involvement of 
>>> the surveillance company Palantir with the digital art exhibition 
>>> 'Dimensions' at Pittlerwerke Leipzig. Francis, our colleagues and I 
>>> initiated this letter.
>>> 
>>> The letter is online in German and English here: 
>>> https://artwashing-leipzig.de/
>>> 
>>> There you can also sign the letter.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> warmly,
>>> Yuhsin
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Su Yu Hsin
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 04.05.23 um 08:36 schrieb Andreas Broeckmann:
 Dear Carsten,
 thank you for pointing this out. I'm also not aware of any "discussion" 
 about this case (though I have heard that some people based in Leipzig 
 explicitly did not want to go to the opening). I wonder whether some of 
 the participating artists who are listed on the website (but who are 
 probably not on this mailing list), would have something to say about the 
 ethics of this particular sponsorship... (Who else would sponsor a digital 
 art show like this? Do you think it would be better if it didn't take 
 place at all? etc.)
 These moral questions are similar for everybody involved, organisers, 
 curators, artists, visitors. My guess is that for some of them it is a 
 matter of 'pecunia non olet' ("money does not stink"), and the opportunity 
 to show artworks in a (formally, spatially) generous context.
 In the absence of a collective (what I think you disappointedly refer to 
 as "this list"), decisions and actions are taken individually, especially 
 when it comes to issues that affect us individually, like paying the 
 bills, or getting a job, or having a name.
 Just my two cents worth...
 -a
 Am 29.04.23 um 18:06 schrieb Carsten Stabenow:
> dear list,
> sorry for beeing maybe too cryptic.
> 
> but for those who might not have heard about this - there is a big media 
> art show running in leipzig at this moment - 
> https://www.dimensions-digital-art.de/
> 50 artists, some iconic works i was looking forward seeing again until i 
> learned, that the main sponsor of this show
> 
> -- 
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Re: [rohrpost] The Feeling of Being Watched

[info]

dear carsten and all … the more i follow your discussions and the more i read 
into this the more i ask myself if there is a funding structure that would be 
acceptable? one that is free from art washing? one that is writing any better 
history? if there is "clean money" in the first place? to what extend it is 
acceptable to be funded? which companies are ok to be funded by and which are 
not? and where exactly is the edge?

i find it (soritical) paradox to see artists withdraw from collections, protest 
against certain strategies money takes, demand "criticality“ and so on … i find 
myself thinking it could be state funding (which in the end means funding with 
forced labor) … i find it really puzzling … 

cheers





Institut für Alles Mögliche
www.institutfuerallesmoegliche.net

instagram us! 
www.instagram.com/das.institut

Am 05.05.2023 um 08:49 schrieb Carsten Stabenow :

agf, andreas - thank you for forwarding! good to read this letter and the names 
on the list.
best, carsten

> Am 05.05.2023 um 07:48 schrieb AGF :
> 
> engl version pls spread
> https://artwashing-leipzig.de/open-letter/
> 
> AGF: @poemproducer  rec-on.org
> 
>> On 5. May 2023, at 7.49, Andreas Broeckmann  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Carsten, man hat in Leipzig diskutiert:
>> 
>> 
>>  Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
>> Betreff:artwashing
>> Datum:Fri, 5 May 2023 10:07:12 +0800
>> Von:Yuhsin Su 
>> An:Andreas Broeckmann 
>> 
>> Dear Andreas,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to share with you the Open Letter regarding the involvement of 
>> the surveillance company Palantir with the digital art exhibition 
>> 'Dimensions' at Pittlerwerke Leipzig. Francis, our colleagues and I 
>> initiated this letter.
>> 
>> The letter is online in German and English here: 
>> https://artwashing-leipzig.de/
>> 
>> There you can also sign the letter.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> warmly,
>> Yuhsin
>> 
>> -- 
>> Su Yu Hsin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am 04.05.23 um 08:36 schrieb Andreas Broeckmann:
>>> Dear Carsten,
>>> thank you for pointing this out. I'm also not aware of any "discussion" 
>>> about this case (though I have heard that some people based in Leipzig 
>>> explicitly did not want to go to the opening). I wonder whether some of the 
>>> participating artists who are listed on the website (but who are probably 
>>> not on this mailing list), would have something to say about the ethics of 
>>> this particular sponsorship... (Who else would sponsor a digital art show 
>>> like this? Do you think it would be better if it didn't take place at all? 
>>> etc.)
>>> These moral questions are similar for everybody involved, organisers, 
>>> curators, artists, visitors. My guess is that for some of them it is a 
>>> matter of 'pecunia non olet' ("money does not stink"), and the opportunity 
>>> to show artworks in a (formally, spatially) generous context.
>>> In the absence of a collective (what I think you disappointedly refer to as 
>>> "this list"), decisions and actions are taken individually, especially when 
>>> it comes to issues that affect us individually, like paying the bills, or 
>>> getting a job, or having a name.
>>> Just my two cents worth...
>>> -a
>>> Am 29.04.23 um 18:06 schrieb Carsten Stabenow:
 dear list,
 sorry for beeing maybe too cryptic.
 
 but for those who might not have heard about this - there is a big media 
 art show running in leipzig at this moment - 
 https://www.dimensions-digital-art.de/
 50 artists, some iconic works i was looking forward seeing again until i 
 learned, that the main sponsor of this show

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Re: [rohrpost] The Feeling of Being Watched

[Carsten Stabenow]

agf, andreas - thank you for forwarding! good to read this letter and the names 
on the list.
best, carsten

> Am 05.05.2023 um 07:48 schrieb AGF :
> 
> engl version pls spread
> https://artwashing-leipzig.de/open-letter/
> 
> AGF: @poemproducer  rec-on.org
> 
>> On 5. May 2023, at 7.49, Andreas Broeckmann  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Carsten, man hat in Leipzig diskutiert:
>> 
>> 
>>  Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
>> Betreff:artwashing
>> Datum:Fri, 5 May 2023 10:07:12 +0800
>> Von:Yuhsin Su 
>> An:Andreas Broeckmann 
>> 
>> Dear Andreas,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to share with you the Open Letter regarding the involvement of 
>> the surveillance company Palantir with the digital art exhibition 
>> 'Dimensions' at Pittlerwerke Leipzig. Francis, our colleagues and I 
>> initiated this letter.
>> 
>> The letter is online in German and English here: 
>> https://artwashing-leipzig.de/
>> 
>> There you can also sign the letter.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> warmly,
>> Yuhsin
>> 
>> -- 
>> Su Yu Hsin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am 04.05.23 um 08:36 schrieb Andreas Broeckmann:
>>> Dear Carsten,
>>> thank you for pointing this out. I'm also not aware of any "discussion" 
>>> about this case (though I have heard that some people based in Leipzig 
>>> explicitly did not want to go to the opening). I wonder whether some of the 
>>> participating artists who are listed on the website (but who are probably 
>>> not on this mailing list), would have something to say about the ethics of 
>>> this particular sponsorship... (Who else would sponsor a digital art show 
>>> like this? Do you think it would be better if it didn't take place at all? 
>>> etc.)
>>> These moral questions are similar for everybody involved, organisers, 
>>> curators, artists, visitors. My guess is that for some of them it is a 
>>> matter of 'pecunia non olet' ("money does not stink"), and the opportunity 
>>> to show artworks in a (formally, spatially) generous context.
>>> In the absence of a collective (what I think you disappointedly refer to as 
>>> "this list"), decisions and actions are taken individually, especially when 
>>> it comes to issues that affect us individually, like paying the bills, or 
>>> getting a job, or having a name.
>>> Just my two cents worth...
>>> -a
>>> Am 29.04.23 um 18:06 schrieb Carsten Stabenow:
 dear list,
 sorry for beeing maybe too cryptic.
 
 but for those who might not have heard about this - there is a big media 
 art show running in leipzig at this moment - 
 https://www.dimensions-digital-art.de/
 50 artists, some iconic works i was looking forward seeing again until i 
 learned, that the main sponsor of this show

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Re: [rohrpost] The Feeling of Being Watched

[AGF]

Hallo, here the English version
https://artwashing-leipzig.de/open-letter/ 


please spread
agee

> On 5. May 2023, at 7.48, Andreas Broeckmann  
> wrote:
> 
> Carsten, man hat in Leipzig diskutiert:
> 
> 
>  Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
> Betreff:  artwashing
> Datum:Fri, 5 May 2023 10:07:12 +0800
> Von:  Yuhsin Su 
> An:   Andreas Broeckmann 
> 
> Dear Andreas,
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to share with you the Open Letter regarding the involvement of 
> the surveillance company Palantir with the digital art exhibition 
> 'Dimensions' at Pittlerwerke Leipzig. Francis, our colleagues and I initiated 
> this letter.
> 
> The letter is online in German and English here: 
> https://artwashing-leipzig.de/
> 
> There you can also sign the letter.
> 
> 
> 
> warmly,
> Yuhsin
> 
> -- 
> Su Yu Hsin
> 
> 
> 
> Am 04.05.23 um 08:36 schrieb Andreas Broeckmann:
>> Dear Carsten,
>> thank you for pointing this out. I'm also not aware of any "discussion" 
>> about this case (though I have heard that some people based in Leipzig 
>> explicitly did not want to go to the opening). I wonder whether some of the 
>> participating artists who are listed on the website (but who are probably 
>> not on this mailing list), would have something to say about the ethics of 
>> this particular sponsorship... (Who else would sponsor a digital art show 
>> like this? Do you think it would be better if it didn't take place at all? 
>> etc.)
>> These moral questions are similar for everybody involved, organisers, 
>> curators, artists, visitors. My guess is that for some of them it is a 
>> matter of 'pecunia non olet' ("money does not stink"), and the opportunity 
>> to show artworks in a (formally, spatially) generous context.
>> In the absence of a collective (what I think you disappointedly refer to as 
>> "this list"), decisions and actions are taken individually, especially when 
>> it comes to issues that affect us individually, like paying the bills, or 
>> getting a job, or having a name.
>> Just my two cents worth...
>> -a
>> Am 29.04.23 um 18:06 schrieb Carsten Stabenow:
>>> dear list,
>>> sorry for beeing maybe too cryptic.
>>> 
>>> but for those who might not have heard about this - there is a big media 
>>> art show running in leipzig at this moment - 
>>> https://www.dimensions-digital-art.de/
>>> 50 artists, some iconic works i was looking forward seeing again until i 
>>> learned, that the main sponsor of this show is PALANTIR - one of the most 
>>> frightening big data companies in the world.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir_Technologies
>>> 
>>> for me it’s kind of alarming, that nobody really seems to care that weapon 
>>> industry (and thats what it is) is funding art shows. did the artists know 
>>> beforehand?
>>> there was some press (see below) but it seems there is no real discussion. 
>>> (at least i’m not aware of.)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Palentir sponsert Schau zur digitalen Kunst  (faz 21.4.23)
>>> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/kunst-und-architektur/walter-smerling-eroeffnet-digitalschau-dimensions-18835926.html?GEPC=s30
>>> 
>>> Liebe Kunst, erlöse uns (zeit 21.4.23)
>>> https://www.zeit.de/2023/17/ausstellung-dimensions-leipzig-palantir-sponsor
>>> 
>>> Der Untergang der Kunst (Kreuzer 22.4.23)
>>> https://kreuzer-leipzig.de/2023/04/22/der-untergang-der-kunst
>>> 
>>> Walter Smerling plant neue Ausstellung (süddeutsche 1.3.23)
>>> https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/walter-smerling-leipzig-digitalkunst-palantir-1.5760664
>>> 
>>> Daten als neue Munition (taz 9.3.23)
>>> https://taz.de/Ukraine-nutzt-KI-von-Palantir/!5917538=palantir/
>>> 
>>> How the algorithm tipped the balance in Ukraine (washington post 19.12.22)
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/19/palantir-algorithm-data-ukraine-war/
>>> 
>>> Palantir wirbt mit KI-Plattform zur Kriegsführung (heise 28.4.23)
>>> https://www.heise.de/news/Palantir-wirbt-mit-KI-Plattform-zur-Kriegsfuehrung-8981871.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> have a nice weekend, c.
> -- 
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Re: [rohrpost] The Feeling of Being Watched

[Andreas Broeckmann]

Carsten, man hat in Leipzig diskutiert:


 Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
Betreff:artwashing
Datum:  Fri, 5 May 2023 10:07:12 +0800
Von:Yuhsin Su 
An: Andreas Broeckmann 

Dear Andreas,



I would like to share with you the Open Letter regarding the involvement 
of the surveillance company Palantir with the digital art exhibition 
'Dimensions' at Pittlerwerke Leipzig. Francis, our colleagues and I 
initiated this letter.


The letter is online in German and English here: 
https://artwashing-leipzig.de/


There you can also sign the letter.



warmly,
Yuhsin

--
Su Yu Hsin



Am 04.05.23 um 08:36 schrieb Andreas Broeckmann:

Dear Carsten,

thank you for pointing this out. I'm also not aware of any "discussion" 
about this case (though I have heard that some people based in Leipzig 
explicitly did not want to go to the opening). I wonder whether some of 
the participating artists who are listed on the website (but who are 
probably not on this mailing list), would have something to say about 
the ethics of this particular sponsorship... (Who else would sponsor a 
digital art show like this? Do you think it would be better if it didn't 
take place at all? etc.)


These moral questions are similar for everybody involved, organisers, 
curators, artists, visitors. My guess is that for some of them it is a 
matter of 'pecunia non olet' ("money does not stink"), and the 
opportunity to show artworks in a (formally, spatially) generous context.


In the absence of a collective (what I think you disappointedly refer to 
as "this list"), decisions and actions are taken individually, 
especially when it comes to issues that affect us individually, like 
paying the bills, or getting a job, or having a name.


Just my two cents worth...

-a


Am 29.04.23 um 18:06 schrieb Carsten Stabenow:

dear list,
sorry for beeing maybe too cryptic.

but for those who might not have heard about this - there is a big 
media art show running in leipzig at this moment - 
https://www.dimensions-digital-art.de/
50 artists, some iconic works i was looking forward seeing again until 
i learned, that the main sponsor of this show is PALANTIR - one of the 
most frightening big data companies in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir_Technologies

for me it’s kind of alarming, that nobody really seems to care that 
weapon industry (and thats what it is) is funding art shows. did the 
artists know beforehand?
there was some press (see below) but it seems there is no real 
discussion. (at least i’m not aware of.)



Palentir sponsert Schau zur digitalen Kunst  (faz 21.4.23)
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/kunst-und-architektur/walter-smerling-eroeffnet-digitalschau-dimensions-18835926.html?GEPC=s30

Liebe Kunst, erlöse uns (zeit 21.4.23)
https://www.zeit.de/2023/17/ausstellung-dimensions-leipzig-palantir-sponsor

Der Untergang der Kunst (Kreuzer 22.4.23)
https://kreuzer-leipzig.de/2023/04/22/der-untergang-der-kunst

Walter Smerling plant neue Ausstellung (süddeutsche 1.3.23)
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/walter-smerling-leipzig-digitalkunst-palantir-1.5760664

Daten als neue Munition (taz 9.3.23)
https://taz.de/Ukraine-nutzt-KI-von-Palantir/!5917538=palantir/

How the algorithm tipped the balance in Ukraine (washington post 
19.12.22)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/19/palantir-algorithm-data-ukraine-war/

Palantir wirbt mit KI-Plattform zur Kriegsführung (heise 28.4.23)
https://www.heise.de/news/Palantir-wirbt-mit-KI-Plattform-zur-Kriegsfuehrung-8981871.html


have a nice weekend, c.

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Re: [rohrpost] The Feeling of Being Watched

[Andreas Broeckmann]

Dear Carsten,

thank you for pointing this out. I'm also not aware of any "discussion" 
about this case (though I have heard that some people based in Leipzig 
explicitly did not want to go to the opening). I wonder whether some of 
the participating artists who are listed on the website (but who are 
probably not on this mailing list), would have something to say about 
the ethics of this particular sponsorship... (Who else would sponsor a 
digital art show like this? Do you think it would be better if it didn't 
take place at all? etc.)


These moral questions are similar for everybody involved, organisers, 
curators, artists, visitors. My guess is that for some of them it is a 
matter of 'pecunia non olet' ("money does not stink"), and the 
opportunity to show artworks in a (formally, spatially) generous context.


In the absence of a collective (what I think you disappointedly refer to 
as "this list"), decisions and actions are taken individually, 
especially when it comes to issues that affect us individually, like 
paying the bills, or getting a job, or having a name.


Just my two cents worth...

-a


Am 29.04.23 um 18:06 schrieb Carsten Stabenow:

dear list,
sorry for beeing maybe too cryptic.

but for those who might not have heard about this - there is a big media art 
show running in leipzig at this moment - https://www.dimensions-digital-art.de/
50 artists, some iconic works i was looking forward seeing again until i 
learned, that the main sponsor of this show is PALANTIR - one of the most 
frightening big data companies in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir_Technologies

for me it’s kind of alarming, that nobody really seems to care that weapon 
industry (and thats what it is) is funding art shows. did the artists know 
beforehand?
there was some press (see below) but it seems there is no real discussion. (at 
least i’m not aware of.)


Palentir sponsert Schau zur digitalen Kunst  (faz 21.4.23)
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/kunst-und-architektur/walter-smerling-eroeffnet-digitalschau-dimensions-18835926.html?GEPC=s30

Liebe Kunst, erlöse uns (zeit 21.4.23)
https://www.zeit.de/2023/17/ausstellung-dimensions-leipzig-palantir-sponsor

Der Untergang der Kunst (Kreuzer 22.4.23)
https://kreuzer-leipzig.de/2023/04/22/der-untergang-der-kunst

Walter Smerling plant neue Ausstellung (süddeutsche 1.3.23)
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/walter-smerling-leipzig-digitalkunst-palantir-1.5760664

Daten als neue Munition (taz 9.3.23)
https://taz.de/Ukraine-nutzt-KI-von-Palantir/!5917538=palantir/

How the algorithm tipped the balance in Ukraine (washington post 19.12.22)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/19/palantir-algorithm-data-ukraine-war/

Palantir wirbt mit KI-Plattform zur Kriegsführung (heise 28.4.23)
https://www.heise.de/news/Palantir-wirbt-mit-KI-Plattform-zur-Kriegsfuehrung-8981871.html


have a nice weekend, c.

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