Re: [rrd-users] Unsubscribe

[Simon Hobson]

Jeff Letendre  wrote:

Absolutely nothing at all, but quoted an entire day's worth of list messages.
In common with virtually all mailing lists, there's a footer on every list 
message. It has a link to the mailing list website 
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or otherwise manage your subscription.

In addition, if you look in the mail headers, which unfortunately most mail 
user agents hide, you'll find this :
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Lastly, in common with almost all mailing lists - requests to a list should be 
sent to ${name_of_list}-request@${server}. Hence, to unsubscribe you send your 
REQUEST to the REQUEST address which is as in the headers above, 
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This is pretty well standard across mailing lists, AND it will have been 
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[rrd-users] Unsubscribe

[Jeff Letendre]

On Oct 19, 2016 6:00 AM,  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: rrdgraph: Negative values with --logarithmic (Christian Garbs)
>2. Re: Confusion about VDEF total and graph values (humke)
>3. Re: Confusion about VDEF total and graph values (humke)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 20:25:37 +0200
> From: Christian Garbs 
> To: Alex van den Bogaerdt 
> Subject: Re: [rrd-users] rrdgraph: Negative values with --logarithmic
> Message-ID: <20161017182537.ga30...@cgarbs.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 03:01:11AM +0200, Alex van den Bogaerdt wrote:
> > > What I want to achieve (and what I think those other proponents also
> > > had in mind) is that I essentially have some of my data mirrored at
> > > the x-axis for better readability (don't draw two values on top of
> > > each other).
> > >
> > > For example I plot outgoing packets on my network as a positive values
> > > while I plot the incoming packets via CDEF:output=0,outputx,- as
> > > negative values.  So the outgoing rate is shown above the x-axis and
> > > the incoming rate below the x-axis.
> >
> > So, what you want to show is the outcome of a normal logaritmic function,
> > but mirrored. Instead of a new function...
>
> Basically, yes, but because of the y axis I think I need some special
> logic in rrdgraph (see below).
>
> > > To tame network spikes somewhat I want to change the graph mode to
> > > logarithmic.  This works for the positive values, but the negative
> > > values simply vanish.  I just want the same transormation that happens
> > > to the positive values applied 'mirrored' the the negative values.
> > >
> > > Think of something like a "display-logarithm" function defined like
> > > this:
> > >
> > >
> > > double disp_log(double y)
> > > {
> > > if (y == 0) {
> > > return 0;
> > > } else if (y > 0) {
> > > return log(y);
> > > } else {
> > > return -log(-y);
> > > }
> > > }
> > >
> > >
> > > While "-log(-y)" might look weird in a mathematical context I think
> that
> > > it makes sense in describing "do the same as for positive values, only
> > > in the other direction".
> >
> > ... can't you just use CDEF:mirrored=logresult,-1,* ?
> > Or am I missing something ?
>
> This would indeed give me the correct results and would draw a correct
> graph, but the y axis grid would not be logarithmic:
>
> If I put the values "1000" and "-1000" into a CDEF using normal and
> 'mirrored' LOG, I'll graph the values "3" and "-3".  The y grid will
> propably autoscale to "-10 ? 10" and show my values as "3" and "-3"
> instead of "1000" and "-1000".
>
> When I use --logarithmic, the positive values are also LOGed, but the y
> axis will be scaled logarithmic as well, so the y axis will show
> "1000" (or "10e3" or "1k") next to the graph value.
>
> If I could get a logarithmic y axis without using --logarithmic (for
> both positive and negative values), using LOG in a CDEF would indeed
> be a solution.
>
> Regards
> Christian
> --
> Christian.Garbshttps
> ://www.cgarbs.de
>
> "Die Ber?hmtheit mancher Zeitgenossen h?ngt mit der Bl?dheit
>  der Bewunderer zusammen."-- Heiner Geissler
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 00:44:54 -0700 (MST)
> From: humke 
> To: rrd-users@lists.oetiker.ch
> Subject: Re: [rrd-users] Confusion about VDEF total and graph values
> Message-ID: <1476863094342-7583447.p...@n2.nabble.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Alex van den Bogaerdt-5 wrote
> >> Alex van den Bogaerdt-5 wrote
> >>> You mean you want to see the same bars, only reduced in width? In other
> >>> words, get smaller bars with gaps inbetween?
> >>
> >> That would also work visually, but what I had in mind was not to reduce
> >> the
> >> width, but create the bars by separating them with vertical lines of the
> >> correct height.
> >
> > I have difficulty understanding what you describe here.
>
> This piece of paint art shows best what I mean. Just smaller bars as per
> your suggestion would also work. I understand we will still be showing
> rates, but if the graph visually looks different (more like a histogram)
> when we CDEF'd a rate, that would be a 

Re: [rrd-users] Confusion about VDEF total and graph values

[Alex van den Bogaerdt]

> This piece of paint art shows best what I mean. Just smaller bars as per
> your suggestion would also work. I understand we will still be showing
> rates, but if the graph visually looks different (more like a histogram)
> when we CDEF'd a rate, that would be a nice visual cue that we did
> something
> to the original data (* 3600 in my case). Of course, title and comment
> strings could also be used to inform the viewer.
>
> 

Ack.

AFAIK rrdtool currently does not do this, but you can visualize it
differently.

Two suggestions, both using TIME again. Both assume bars of exactly 1 hour
(3600 seconds) wide. Adjust as needed.  Note: i did not test any of this,
you may need to fix some errors.

#1 two CDEFs.  Both push TIME on the stack, modulo 7200. You have a number
0..7199. Only copy the input if the time is in the {first|second} half of
this range, else push unknown on the stack.
CDEF:val1=orig,TIME,7200,%,3600,LT,orig,UNKN,IF
CDEF:val2=orig,TIME,7200,%,3600,GE,orig,UNKN,IF
now display val1 and val2 using slightly different colors.

#2 two CDEFs again. This time you test against TIME modulo 3600 and
compare using equality only.
CDEF:val1=orig,TIME,3600,%,0,EQ,orig,UNKN,IF
CDEF:val2=orig,TIME,3600,%,0,NE,orig,UNKN,IF
now display val1 in black and val2 using any color you want.

This suggestion only works if RRDtool is working internally with units
much smaller than an hour (or else everything is in val1, displaying only
black). You may need to fetch another data source as well, one that has a
resolution better than one change per hour.  Try this if you see only
black bars.

Once you see bars with black vertical lines (which really are small
areas), you could also display orig in black using LINE1 to fill the top.
The result comes close to your paint art but will not close the gap when a
smaller rate follows a higher one.

Suggestion #3: hack the source. This may not be as simple as it may seem,
but it is certainly doable.

HTH
Alex


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Re: [rrd-users] Confusion about VDEF total and graph values

[humke]

Simon Hobson-2 wrote
> I interpret him as : think about drawing each column in the graph as a box
> with a thin (I guess 1 pixel is the minimum) outline round it in a
> contrasting colour - but don't draw the top or bottom lines. You've now
> got vertical lines separating the filled area.
> 
> It's slightly more subtle, you actually want to only draw a line on either
> the right, or the left, of each column - otherwise the side lines from two
> adjacent columns combine to form a 2 pixel wide line.
> 
> It also won't work if the columns are only 1 pixel wide.

Almost... See my other post of today for a picture of what I mean. 

RRDgraph allows us to draw with pixels < 1 in size (I actually use 0.8 in my
graphs). There's no such thing as half (or <1) a pixel in reality, but the
rendering process uses the number to do some special 'smoothing' (there's a
better term that won't pop up in my head) to make it visually look like a
thinner line. I am not sure if it would help to give the desired effect in
this case. If we could even generate the vertical lines that is which I so
much desire ;)





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Re: [rrd-users] Confusion about VDEF total and graph values

[humke]

Alex van den Bogaerdt-5 wrote
>> Alex van den Bogaerdt-5 wrote
>>> You mean you want to see the same bars, only reduced in width? In other
>>> words, get smaller bars with gaps inbetween?
>>
>> That would also work visually, but what I had in mind was not to reduce
>> the
>> width, but create the bars by separating them with vertical lines of the
>> correct height.
> 
> I have difficulty understanding what you describe here.

This piece of paint art shows best what I mean. Just smaller bars as per
your suggestion would also work. I understand we will still be showing
rates, but if the graph visually looks different (more like a histogram)
when we CDEF'd a rate, that would be a nice visual cue that we did something
to the original data (* 3600 in my case). Of course, title and comment
strings could also be used to inform the viewer.

 

Arjan




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