Re: Bad habits
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 04:02:47PM +, Stuart Halliday wrote: > > > Why are non members even allowed to post to the list? > > > > Why shouldn't they be? In my view, subscription to the list just > > indicates a personal preference to receive all the mail because one > > wishes to either help others or stay informed of rsync-related > > happenings. There's no reason why people who have one question but > > aren't otherwise interested in rsync should be forced to subscribe. > > Ok, I see your point of view on this. > > It's opposite to mine. ;-) > > If a person wants to post to the list, let them subscribe. > They can always unsubscribe easily enough. > > 99% of mailing lists and forums work that way I've found. > There are certainly *very* few lists that allow non-subscribers to post nowadays. -- Chris Green -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
> > Why are non members even allowed to post to the list? > > Why shouldn't they be? In my view, subscription to the list just > indicates a personal preference to receive all the mail because one > wishes to either help others or stay informed of rsync-related > happenings. There's no reason why people who have one question but > aren't otherwise interested in rsync should be forced to subscribe. Ok, I see your point of view on this. It's opposite to mine. ;-) If a person wants to post to the list, let them subscribe. They can always unsubscribe easily enough. 99% of mailing lists and forums work that way I've found. -- Stuart Halliday This email is the property of ECS Technology Ltd. This company is registered in Scotland with company number 212513. VAT registered GB 761 7456 12 http://www.ecs-tech.com/ -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
Stuart, On Thu, 2008-03-20 at 15:33 +, Stuart Halliday wrote: > If they're not on the list why assume they want to be emailed? If a user asks a question and I answer it, I assume he/she wants to receive my answer whether or not he/she is on the list. Is that unreasonable? > Why are non members even allowed to post to the list? Why shouldn't they be? In my view, subscription to the list just indicates a personal preference to receive all the mail because one wishes to either help others or stay informed of rsync-related happenings. There's no reason why people who have one question but aren't otherwise interested in rsync should be forced to subscribe. > Isn't an open mailing list a blank cheque to email harvesters? Could you be more specific about your concern? Spam sent to the list is caught in moderation and dropped before it goes out to everyone. The online list archives obfuscate From addresses properly and don't even show To or CC addresses. Matt -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
If they're not on the list why assume they want to be emailed? Why are non members even allowed to post to the list? Isn't an open mailing list a blank cheque to email harvesters? P.S. Please don't CC a reply back to me. I'll read it on the list. ;-) -- Stuart Halliday -Original Message- From: Mike Frysinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: rsync@lists.samba.org Cc: Stuart Halliday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:32:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Bad habits > On Thursday 20 March 2008, Stuart Halliday wrote: > > > On Thursday 20 March 2008, Stuart Halliday wrote: > > > > Is it just me or a lot of people on this mailing list got into a > bad > > > > habit of also carbon copying to the poster as well? > > > > > > sounds normal to me > > > > Hardly. > > > > Mailing lists send one email of new posts to each member under normal > > conditions. They don't send two! > > read the rest of the thread. you cant assume everyone is on the > mailing list. > -mike > This email is the property of ECS Technology Ltd. This company is registered in Scotland with company number 212513. VAT registered GB 761 7456 12 http://www.ecs-tech.com/ -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
On Thu, 2008-03-20 at 13:20 +0100, Daniel Maher wrote: > Actually, you can post to the list even if you're not subscribed - the > mail will wait in the moderation queue until an admin releases it, > however. > > Whether the/an admin actually performs this function is still up for > debate though. ;) Daniel, you should know: I released your message! Wayne and I moderate the list, and the way I understand it, it's entirely an anti-spam measure, not an attempt to encourage people to subscribe to the list before posting. The moderation was only instituted when people started complaining about spam: http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2007-August/018372.html In fact, I'm getting sick of having to release multiple messages from the same person, so I'm thinking of whitelisting people when they send their first non-spam message. Wayne, do you think this is a good idea? Matt -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:05:40 -0400 Mike Frysinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This list requires you to be subscribed, otherwise you can't post. > > you're the mailing list admin ? you know the non-subscribed > policy ? is it automatically moderated ? out right rejected ? Actually, you can post to the list even if you're not subscribed - the mail will wait in the moderation queue until an admin releases it, however. Whether the/an admin actually performs this function is still up for debate though. ;) -- Daniel Maher signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
On Thursday 20 March 2008, Stuart Halliday wrote: > > On Thursday 20 March 2008, Stuart Halliday wrote: > > > Is it just me or a lot of people on this mailing list got into a bad > > > habit of also carbon copying to the poster as well? > > > > sounds normal to me > > Hardly. > > Mailing lists send one email of new posts to each member under normal > conditions. They don't send two! read the rest of the thread. you cant assume everyone is on the mailing list. -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
> On Thursday 20 March 2008, Stuart Halliday wrote: > > Is it just me or a lot of people on this mailing list got into a bad > habit > > of also carbon copying to the poster as well? > > sounds normal to me Hardly. Mailing lists send one email of new posts to each member under normal conditions. They don't send two! People are manually adding CC headers for some reason when they're posting to the list. My own postings don't get to me twice and they don't contain a CC header. IF some people have switched off the list for some reason, then they're hardly likely to want further emails surely! > you're assuming everyone knows the mailing list policy Netiquette is fast becoming a dead art because admin and Mods of forums and lists don't enforce basic standards. I run a fair few mailing lists and have done so for 30 years and Netiquette is a major part of the charter my members have to read and accept to be members. Top posters are taken out and shot at dawn! :-) -- Stuart Halliday This email is the property of ECS Technology Ltd. This company is registered in Scotland with company number 212513. VAT registered GB 761 7456 12 http://www.ecs-tech.com/ -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
Mike Frysinger wrote: > > Hence it doesn't make much sense to cc directly; respond to the mailing > > list and the response should reach the persons concerned. > > which gets back to the point of expecting people to be fully aware of the > mailing list policy. many contributors are subscribed to many mailing lists > which may all have different policies. dropping the TO/CC lists on *this* > mailing list may be ok (assuming that non-subscribers get automatically > dropped and such postings will not get moderated through), but may not be ok > on many others. For example, on linux-kernel, one is _expected_ to reply to the list _and_ include people on the Cc list. The reason is probably due to high volume. Nobody can keep up with all of that list (and get any work done), and therefore check for replies to things they've posted. So the Cc is a way to get directly relevant replies to people's main inbox (instead of their list inbox), where they are more likely to see it. Same goes for non-replies which are relevant to specific people: it's common to write to the list _and_ specifically relevant people when starting a thread. > > Actually I don't mind too much getting CC's, I just delete those > > directly when I find a response to this list in my normal inbox. > > It's just unfortunate if someone just replies to me and not to the list > > i havent noticed a problem myself ... but i employ sane filtering Exactly. Filtering removes the duplicates (if you want), as they have the same Message-Id, but you still get to distinguish messages which are replies to topics you've got involved in from generic list postings, which you might not have time to look at. > > I find those people who "protect" their mailbox with a > > challenge-response system and subsribe to mailing lists a far bigger > > irritation. Luckily hasn't happened on this list yet AFAIR. > > indeed. those people should get shot. I don't condone violence. So I would go for cutting off their internet connection until they've passed their internet driving test :-) -- Jamie -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
On Thursday 20 March 2008, Stuart Halliday wrote: Is it just me or a lot of people on this mailing list got into a bad habit of also carbon copying to the poster as well? Just delete the duplicate. It's that simple. Ironically, the "Bad Habits" subject made me pull the original message to the SPAM folder without even opening it. There is some "moral of the story" here, I'm sure. Best regards, -- David -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
On Thursday 20 March 2008, Paul Slootman wrote: > On Thu 20 Mar 2008, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > > I subscribe to this mailing list. Why send me a duplicate copy? I get > > > more than enough email thank you... > > > > most mailing lists detect such duplicates automatically and dont send out > > in such cases > > The mailing list can hardly detect that you've received another copy > directly... for all practical intents and purposes, yes it can. it gets the e-mail with the TO/CC list and knows not to resend to people who are subscribed to the mailing list and are already listed in those fields. > > > Personally I like mailing list correspondence kept to the list. > > > > you're assuming everyone knows the mailing list policy and assumes > > everyone is subscribed to the list and receiving replies ... often times > > lists are flexible and dont require people to be actively receiving mails > > This list requires you to be subscribed, otherwise you can't post. you're the mailing list admin ? you know the non-subscribed policy ? is it automatically moderated ? out right rejected ? > Hence it doesn't make much sense to cc directly; respond to the mailing > list and the response should reach the persons concerned. which gets back to the point of expecting people to be fully aware of the mailing list policy. many contributors are subscribed to many mailing lists which may all have different policies. dropping the TO/CC lists on *this* mailing list may be ok (assuming that non-subscribers get automatically dropped and such postings will not get moderated through), but may not be ok on many others. > Actually I don't mind too much getting CC's, I just delete those > directly when I find a response to this list in my normal inbox. > It's just unfortunate if someone just replies to me and not to the list i havent noticed a problem myself ... but i employ sane filtering > I find those people who "protect" their mailbox with a > challenge-response system and subsribe to mailing lists a far bigger > irritation. Luckily hasn't happened on this list yet AFAIR. indeed. those people should get shot. -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
On Thu 20 Mar 2008, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > I subscribe to this mailing list. Why send me a duplicate copy? I get more > > than enough email thank you... > > most mailing lists detect such duplicates automatically and dont send out in > such cases The mailing list can hardly detect that you've received another copy directly... > > Personally I like mailing list correspondence kept to the list. > > you're assuming everyone knows the mailing list policy and assumes everyone > is > subscribed to the list and receiving replies ... often times lists are > flexible and dont require people to be actively receiving mails This list requires you to be subscribed, otherwise you can't post. Hence it doesn't make much sense to cc directly; respond to the mailing list and the response should reach the persons concerned. Actually I don't mind too much getting CC's, I just delete those directly when I find a response to this list in my normal inbox. It's just unfortunate if someone just replies to me and not to the list :-/ Then again, those people should just reply to the mailing list. I find those people who "protect" their mailbox with a challenge-response system and subsribe to mailing lists a far bigger irritation. Luckily hasn't happened on this list yet AFAIR. Paul -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Re: Bad habits
On Thursday 20 March 2008, Stuart Halliday wrote: > Is it just me or a lot of people on this mailing list got into a bad habit > of also carbon copying to the poster as well? sounds normal to me > I subscribe to this mailing list. Why send me a duplicate copy? I get more > than enough email thank you... most mailing lists detect such duplicates automatically and dont send out in such cases > Personally I like mailing list correspondence kept to the list. you're assuming everyone knows the mailing list policy and assumes everyone is subscribed to the list and receiving replies ... often times lists are flexible and dont require people to be actively receiving mails -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- To unsubscribe or change options: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/rsync Before posting, read: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
