[rules-users] can drools support complex rules

2009-05-19 Thread Bhushan Bhangale 
Hi,

 

I recently came across Drools. I gone through the documentation and the
examples provide are quite simple. I want to know if it can be really
applied to complex real world problems.

 

Take for example,

 

If a customer login within 5 minutes from two different locations, mark the
user invalid.

How can I write the above rule in drools? I have the data when the user last
logged in and the data of current login. You can say two objects.

 

May be my understanding is wrong but looks like based on rule I have to pass
all the required data. How can then at real time new rules can be added?

 

For example,

 

If the customer location is not on a list of valid locations, mark the user
invalid.

 

For the above rule I need to pass a list of valid locations as well.

 

Now how about Customer login from more than 5 locations in the last one
month?

 

Thanks


Mr. Bhangale Bhushan
Associate Manager
Kale Consultants Ltd.
 mailto:bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
tel:
http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=%2B91+%280%2
9206+608+3777email=bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com +91 (0)206 608
3777
 http://www.kaleconsultants.com http://www.kaleconsultants.com 

 


 


 

 




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Re: [rules-users] can drools support complex rules

2009-05-19 Thread Wolfgang Laun 
Drools is very well equipped for handling large fact collections. As to the
examples you cite, #1 and #2 are simple, as you apparently know. As for #3,
check the documentation on the collect and accumulate patterns, which
should satisfy you that it can be implemented without undue strain. (To wit:
accumulate over logins, later (now-1month), of that customer, maintaining a
Set of locations, which must be size()5 at the end. As simple as that.)

Also, keep in mind that you have Java as a fallback; so if some problem
cannot be implemented easily by pattern matching, you can alway resort to
procedural code.

-W


2009/5/19 Bhushan Bhangale bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com

  Hi,



 I recently came across Drools. I gone through the documentation and the
 examples provide are quite simple. I want to know if it can be really
 applied to complex real world problems.



 Take for example,



 If a customer login within 5 minutes from two different locations, mark the
 user invalid.

 How can I write the above rule in drools? I have the data when the user
 last logged in and the data of current login. You can say two objects.



 May be my understanding is wrong but looks like based on rule I have to
 pass all the required data. How can then at real time new rules can be
 added?



 For example,



 If the customer location is not on a list of valid locations, mark the user
 invalid.



 For the above rule I need to pass a list of valid locations as well.



 Now how about “Customer login from more than 5 locations in the last one
 month”?



 Thanks

 *Mr. Bhangale Bhushan*
 *Associate Manager*
 *Kale Consultants Ltd.*
 bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
 tel: +91 (0)206 608 
 3777http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=%2B91+%280%29206+608+3777email=bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
 http://www.kaleconsultants.com









 Disclaimer: This email (including any attachments) is intended for the sole
 use of the recipient/s and may contain material that is CONFIDENTIAL. Any
 unauthorized disclosure / copying / distribution or forwarding of this message
 or part is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have erroneously received this message,
 please delete it immediately and notify the sender. No liability is assumed 
 for
 any errors and/or omissions in the contents of this message. Information in
 this message that does not relate to the official business of this Company
 shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. If verification is
 required please request a hard-copy version.

 To know more about Kale Consultants, visit www.kaleconsultants.com

 --





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 https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users


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Re: [rules-users] can drools support complex rules

2009-05-19 Thread Edson Tirelli 
 Your question is funny. First you ask if Drools is capable of managing
complex rules and then you mention examples of extremely simple rules? :)

 Drools is FOL complete and so can represent any well formed First Order
Logic expression. Anyway, I will use this message to advertise some of the
temporal reasoning features that we have on Drools 5 for the benefit of
anyone interested.

 There are several ways of authoring such rules, depending on how you
model your problem domain. One possible way of doing them is:

#1:
rule If a customer login within 5 minutes from two different locations,
mark the user invalid.
when
 $l1 : CustomerLogin( )
 $l2 : CustomerLogin( userId == l1.$id, location != $l1.id, timestamp
after[0s, 5m] $l1.timestamp )
then
 // mark user as invalid
end

In the previous example I assumed both login objects would be in working
memory, but you can easily query for the previous login in an external
datasource, pulling the data from the previous login on-demand for the
reasoning cycle.

#2:
rule If the customer location is not on a list of valid locations, mark the
user invalid
when
  $l : CustomerLogin( location not memberOf $validLocations )
then
  // mark the user invalid
end

In the above rule, I assume the valid locations list is a global list, but
you can as easily model locations as being facts on your working memory or a
service end point that you can call to validate the location.

#3:
rule “Customer login from more than 5 locations in the last one month”
when
$customer : Customer( $id : id )
$locations : Set( size  5 ) from accumulate(
 CustomerLogin( customerId == $id, $loc : location )
over window:time( 30d ),
 collectSet( $loc ) )
then
// do something as the customer logged in from more than 5 locations in
the last 30 days
end

In the previous rule I decided to use sliding windows, just to show how that
feature can be used to simplify rules, but again, there are several ways of
doing it.

I strongly recommend you read Drools manual.

http://www.jboss.org/drools/documentation.html

Cheers,
Edson



2009/5/19 Bhushan Bhangale bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com

  Hi,



 I recently came across Drools. I gone through the documentation and the
 examples provide are quite simple. I want to know if it can be really
 applied to complex real world problems.



 Take for example,



 If a customer login within 5 minutes from two different locations, mark the
 user invalid.

 How can I write the above rule in drools? I have the data when the user
 last logged in and the data of current login. You can say two objects.



 May be my understanding is wrong but looks like based on rule I have to
 pass all the required data. How can then at real time new rules can be
 added?



 For example,



 If the customer location is not on a list of valid locations, mark the user
 invalid.



 For the above rule I need to pass a list of valid locations as well.



 Now how about “Customer login from more than 5 locations in the last one
 month”?



 Thanks

 *Mr. Bhangale Bhushan*
 *Associate Manager*
 *Kale Consultants Ltd.*
 bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
 tel: +91 (0)206 608 
 3777http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=%2B91+%280%29206+608+3777email=bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
 http://www.kaleconsultants.com









 Disclaimer: This email (including any attachments) is intended for the sole
 use of the recipient/s and may contain material that is CONFIDENTIAL. Any
 unauthorized disclosure / copying / distribution or forwarding of this message
 or part is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have erroneously received this message,
 please delete it immediately and notify the sender. No liability is assumed 
 for
 any errors and/or omissions in the contents of this message. Information in
 this message that does not relate to the official business of this Company
 shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. If verification is
 required please request a hard-copy version.

 To know more about Kale Consultants, visit www.kaleconsultants.com

 --





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 rules-users mailing list
 rules-users@lists.jboss.org
 https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users




-- 
 Edson Tirelli
 JBoss Drools Core Development
 JBoss, a division of Red Hat @ www.jboss.com
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Re: [rules-users] Using joda-time in drools-fusion

2009-05-19 Thread Edson Tirelli 
   Greg,

   Not possible to use jodatime at this moment, but I want to develop
integration with it and/or JSR 310 for the coming versions.

   []s
   Edson

2009/5/19 Greg Barton greg_bar...@yahoo.com


 Is it possible to use the joda-time classes as timestamp and interval
 fields in drools-fusion?  i.e.

 declare Foo
@role( event )
@timestamp( startTime )
@duration( interval )
 end

 ...where...

 import org.joda.time.DateTime;
 import org.joda.time.Interval;

 public interface Foo {
  public DateTime getStartTime();
  public Interval getInterval();
 }

 I tried it and it's not working, but I want to make sure it's possible
 before I dig in.  There's a dependency in drools for joda-time and I'd like
 to use it if possible.



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-- 
 Edson Tirelli
 JBoss Drools Core Development
 JBoss, a division of Red Hat @ www.jboss.com
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Re: [rules-users] How to import DRL into Business Rule Assets section?

2009-05-19 Thread Michal Bali 
Hi Jon,

You could use webdav to connect to Guvnor -
http://blog.athico.com/2008/05/accessing-guvnor-as-filesystem-webdav.html.
You should then see how Guvnor stores the 'business rules', I think it is an
XML file. Then instead of generating DRL file you could generate this XML.
You can then upload these files via webdav into Guvnor.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Michal


On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Late Norther latenort...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hello,
  We are trying to develop a system based on Drools and want to have a
  repository based on JBoss and manage it from the Guvnor website. Now,
  we have a few questions:
  1) Can we import DRL files into the Business rules section, so that
  later we can view/modify them using the graphical interface (text
  boxes, drop down menus, etc)? This will be very useful for production
  use.
  What we tried so far, imports them as text in the Technical rules
  section

 I have the identical question.   I have created a utility which takes
 our own homegrown rules and converts them (hundreds of rules) into a
 DRL file.   I too have been able to import them into Guvnor, but was
 hoping they could then be modified via the graphical editor instead of
 the technical rule editor.   The rules are simple and do not contain
 anything that Guvnor's graphical editor does not support.   I have a
 feeling this is an enhancement request, but just in case anyone knew
 of a workaround to change the type of rule from technical rule to
 business rule.

 Thanks,

 Jon
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Re: [rules-users] How to import DRL into Business Rule Assets section?

2009-05-19 Thread Late Norther 
2009/5/19 Michal Bali michalb...@gmail.com:
 Hi Jon,

 You could use webdav to connect to Guvnor -
 http://blog.athico.com/2008/05/accessing-guvnor-as-filesystem-webdav.html.
 You should then see how Guvnor stores the 'business rules', I think it is an
 XML file. Then instead of generating DRL file you could generate this XML.
 You can then upload these files via webdav into Guvnor.
 Hope this helps.

 Regards,
 Michal


Michal,

I can't thank you enough.  This worked well.

For others, here is a review of what I did.

1. Created a 'dummy' rule using the guided editor in my target package.
2. Used the blog URL above to mount the package webdav share
3. Downloaded the 'dummy' rule from the webdav share to act as a template
4. Updated my Perl import/export script to create .brl files instead
of .drl files, using the template.
5. Copied the new .brl files created by my utility script to the webdav share.
6. Go back to Guvnor GWT and saw/confirmed my rules.

The only snafu I found was that I am unable to populate a category as
part of the import, but I can have my analysts do that by hand if
needed.  That apparently is not stored in the .brl, but rather
somewhere else.   I did confirm that I can update the category in the
UI after the load.

Again,  Thank you.

Jon
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RE: [rules-users] can drools support complex rules

2009-05-19 Thread Bhushan Bhangale 
I only spent a day reading about Drools. The rules I presented looks simple
but the idea was to know if the only solution is to extract all the required
data and pass to the rules engine. Or the rules can be written in such a way
that is can get the required data from the raw data.

 

Your and Wolfgang example shows that rules can be written over raw data as
well as rules can talk to database. I will go through the documentation to
grasp the power of drools.

 

Thanks

Bhushan

 

-Original Message-
From: rules-users-boun...@lists.jboss.org
[mailto:rules-users-boun...@lists.jboss.org] On Behalf Of Edson Tirelli
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:48 PM
To: Rules Users List
Subject: Re: [rules-users] can drools support complex rules

 


 Your question is funny. First you ask if Drools is capable of managing
complex rules and then you mention examples of extremely simple rules? :) 

 Drools is FOL complete and so can represent any well formed First Order
Logic expression. Anyway, I will use this message to advertise some of the
temporal reasoning features that we have on Drools 5 for the benefit of
anyone interested.

 There are several ways of authoring such rules, depending on how you
model your problem domain. One possible way of doing them is:

#1: 
rule If a customer login within 5 minutes from two different locations,
mark the user invalid.
when
 $l1 : CustomerLogin( )
 $l2 : CustomerLogin( userId == l1.$id, location != $l1.id, timestamp
after[0s, 5m] $l1.timestamp )
then
 // mark user as invalid 
end

In the previous example I assumed both login objects would be in working
memory, but you can easily query for the previous login in an external
datasource, pulling the data from the previous login on-demand for the
reasoning cycle.

#2:
rule If the customer location is not on a list of valid locations, mark the
user invalid
when
  $l : CustomerLogin( location not memberOf $validLocations )
then
  // mark the user invalid
end
 
In the above rule, I assume the valid locations list is a global list, but
you can as easily model locations as being facts on your working memory or a
service end point that you can call to validate the location.

#3:
rule Customer login from more than 5 locations in the last one month
when
$customer : Customer( $id : id )
$locations : Set( size  5 ) from accumulate(
 CustomerLogin( customerId == $id, $loc : location )
over window:time( 30d ),
 collectSet( $loc ) )
then
// do something as the customer logged in from more than 5 locations in
the last 30 days
end

In the previous rule I decided to use sliding windows, just to show how that
feature can be used to simplify rules, but again, there are several ways of
doing it.

I strongly recommend you read Drools manual. 

http://www.jboss.org/drools/documentation.html

Cheers,
Edson




2009/5/19 Bhushan Bhangale bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com

Hi,

 

I recently came across Drools. I gone through the documentation and the
examples provide are quite simple. I want to know if it can be really
applied to complex real world problems.

 

Take for example,

 

If a customer login within 5 minutes from two different locations, mark the
user invalid.

How can I write the above rule in drools? I have the data when the user last
logged in and the data of current login. You can say two objects.

 

May be my understanding is wrong but looks like based on rule I have to pass
all the required data. How can then at real time new rules can be added?

 

For example,

 

If the customer location is not on a list of valid locations, mark the user
invalid.

 

For the above rule I need to pass a list of valid locations as well.

 

Now how about Customer login from more than 5 locations in the last one
month?

 

Thanks


Mr. Bhangale Bhushan
Associate Manager
Kale Consultants Ltd.
 mailto:bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com
tel:
http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=ensrc=jj_signatureTo=%2B91+%280%2
9206+608+3777email=bhushan_bhang...@kaleconsultants.com +91 (0)206 608
3777
 http://www.kaleconsultants.com http://www.kaleconsultants.com 

 


 


 

 

 

Disclaimer: This email (including any attachments) is intended for the sole
use of the recipient/s and may contain material that is CONFIDENTIAL. Any
unauthorized disclosure / copying / distribution or forwarding of this
message 
or part is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have erroneously received this
message,
please delete it immediately and notify the sender. No liability is assumed
for
any errors and/or omissions in the contents of this message. Information in 
this message that does not relate to the official business of this Company
shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. If verification is
required please request a hard-copy version. 
 
To know more about Kale Consultants, visit www.kaleconsultants.com 
 
--