Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule execution
Hi Wolfgang Thanks for the response. We will build a quick environment with test facts and run a benchmark as you suggest. If we can fire these through quick enough then this sounds like the preferred approach. Then my next issue will be how to allow users to insert product updates through the day and release new price lists without impacting users calling the validation service ;-/ Thanks for all the help Ste On 2 May 2012, at 17:09, Wolfgang Laun wrote: > Loading a stateless knowledge session with ~10k facts and the one (or > few) transaction fact(s) for a single transaction isn't economic. > > I'd benchmark the costs for inserting the transaction fact(s) into a > statefeul session, run fireAllRules(), returning the result and > removing the debris in a thread. This should give you a good > indication how many of these you can do per second, and the potential > delay for concurrent requests when transactions are done in turn. > > -W > > > On 02/05/2012, gpa...@tsys.com wrote: >> I would suggest making your service stateless and run the service in >> multiple JVMs to alleviate performance concerns. You will be able to scale >> and also not have to worry about cramming everything into a >> StatefulKnowledgeSession and worry abt thead-safety. >> >> >> >> From: Stephen Lomax >> To: Rules Users List , >> Date: 05/02/2012 04:28 AM >> Subject:Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule >> execution >> Sent by:rules-users-boun...@lists.jboss.org >> >> >> >> Hi Mike, >> >> Many thanks for that..we had previously thought of serialising to file but >> thought the purpose of the StatefulKnowledgeSession was to keep it live in >> memory continuously, rather than instantiating a new session with each web >> service call. >> >> >> My concern is that if we instantiate a new session with each web service >> call the memory required will increase massively (if we have many >> concurrent requests). Is there a way of serving multiple concurrent >> requests against the same session to remove that concern. >> >> Many thanks for your help with this..it is very much appreciated. >> >> Ste >> >> >> . >> On 2 May 2012, at 12:08, Michael Anstis wrote: >> >> That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules. >> >> As a thought, you could serialise the initialised >> StatelessKnowledgeSession into a byte[] (cached at application scope) and >> deserialise with each web-service call. >> >> I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or community members >> have other thoughts on use of a single StatefulKnowledgeSession. >> >> IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people have reported problems >> in the past. Recently: >> http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html >> >> With kind regards, >> >> Mike >> >> On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax wrote: >> Hi Mike, >> >> Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove >> the quote at the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just >> comparing the quote to the core product attribute facts. >> >> What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with >> say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call slow? >> >> Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that. >> >> Kind Regards >> >> Ste >> >> On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote: >> >> Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession >> with other facts that could influence validation of other quotes? >> >> If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be >> more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable). >> >> Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring >> to mind:- >> Look at using a Global to collate results. >> Look at using a Query ( >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-memory-at-runtime-in-the-drools-drl-and-retrieve-t >> ) >> With kind regards, >> >> Mike >> >> On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a >> question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue. >> >> First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping >> to use Drools as a real ti
Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule execution
Hi Mike, Many thanks for that..we had previously thought of serialising to file but thought the purpose of the StatefulKnowledgeSession was to keep it live in memory continuously, rather than instantiating a new session with each web service call. My concern is that if we instantiate a new session with each web service call the memory required will increase massively (if we have many concurrent requests). Is there a way of serving multiple concurrent requests against the same session to remove that concern. Many thanks for your help with this..it is very much appreciated. Ste . On 2 May 2012, at 12:08, Michael Anstis wrote: > That's a possibility, but it'd depend on your rules. > > As a thought, you could serialise the initialised StatelessKnowledgeSession > into a byte[] (cached at application scope) and deserialise with each > web-service call. > > I would wait to see if Mark Proctor, Edson Tirelli or community members have > other thoughts on use of a single StatefulKnowledgeSession. > > IIRC it is meant to be thread-safe but think people have reported problems in > the past. Recently: > http://lists.jboss.org/pipermail/rules-dev/2012-February/003857.html > > With kind regards, > > Mike > > On 2 May 2012 11:58, Stephen Lomax wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove > the quote at the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just > comparing the quote to the core product attribute facts. > > What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with > say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call slow? > > Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that. > > Kind Regards > > Ste > > On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote: > >> Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession with >> other facts that could influence validation of other quotes? >> >> If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be >> more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable). >> >> Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring to >> mind:- >> Look at using a Global to collate results. >> Look at using a Query >> (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-memory-at-runtime-in-the-drools-drl-and-retrieve-t) >> With kind regards, >> >> Mike >> >> On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a >> question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue. >> >> First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping >> to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool. >> >> Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful >> knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as facts >> from our product DB). >> >> The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting of >> quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is built >> they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that will: >> >> 1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session >> 2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts >> 3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the >> quote >> 4) QUERY for the validation results >> 5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results) >> 6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call >> >> My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query for >> the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here >> would be greatly appreciated. >> >> My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation >> tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get >> concurrent validation requests. >> >> What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests >> within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a >> different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the >> knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools capable >> of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each >> referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge >> sessions, or even deal with the mat
Re: [rules-users] Query for a fact, and concurrent rule execution
Hi Mike, Each quote does not enrich the session, we were actively looking to remove the quote at the end of the session to prevent it growing as we were just comparing the quote to the core product attribute facts. What is the performance hit in launching a Stateful knowledge session with say 10,000 facts, would it make the web service call slow? Thanks very much for the help on the query also…we will look into that. Kind Regards Ste On 2 May 2012, at 11:31, Michael Anstis wrote: > Does each quote validation exercise enrich the StatefulKnowledgeSession with > other facts that could influence validation of other quotes? > > If not probably using a StatefulKnowledgeSession per HTTP request might be > more simple (with the KnowledgeBase as an application scoped variable). > > Regarding retrieval of results, there are a couple of options that spring to > mind:- > Look at using a Global to collate results. > Look at using a Query > (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5872215/how-do-i-add-facts-to-working-memory-at-runtime-in-the-drools-drl-and-retrieve-t) > With kind regards, > > Mike > > On 2 May 2012 10:39, stelomax wrote: > Hi, > > Please bear with me, I am relatively new to the world of Drools and have a > question. I am hoping it will be a simple issue. > > First let me frame my planned implementation at a high level. I am hoping > to use Drools as a real time service enabled quote validation tool. > > Facts representing products and attributes will be loaded into a stateful > knowledge session upon boot (using a piece of Java that loads these as facts > from our product DB). > > The front-end application will allow users to build up quotes consisting of > quote lines that make references to these products. Once the quote is built > they will press a "Validate" button. This will call a webservice that will: > > 1) Insert the quote details as facts into the knowledge session > 2) Run a "rule flow" to validate the quote against the product facts > 3) The rules will insert validation results as facts tagged against the > quote > 4) QUERY for the validation results > 5) Retract the facts for the quote (inc validation results) > 6) Send the validation results back as a response to the webservice call > > My first question is how to implement step 4 --> how to physically query for > the validation results pertaining to that specific quote. Any help here > would be greatly appreciated. > > My second question relates to concurrency. As this is a quote validation > tool there will be multiple users validating quotes so we will get > concurrent validation requests. > > What is the recommended manner of dealing with concurrent rule requests > within a stateful knowledge session. If 2 people attempt to validate a > different quote at the same time we will have two quotes within the > knowledge session together with all of the product facts. Is drools capable > of running two concurrent rule flows against the knowledge session, each > referencing a different quote or would we need to instantiate 2 knowledge > sessions, or even deal with the matter in a serial manner placing the 2nd > quote validation flow on hold until the first completes? > > Any help/pointers would be great. I am hoping someone out there has > attempted to use Drools in a similar manner :) > > Many Thanks > > Ste > > -- > View this message in context: > http://drools.46999.n3.nabble.com/Query-for-a-fact-and-concurrent-rule-execution-tp3954737.html > Sent from the Drools: User forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ___ > rules-users mailing list > rules-users@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users > > ___ > rules-users mailing list > rules-users@lists.jboss.org > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users ___ rules-users mailing list rules-users@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/rules-users
