[sage-combinat-devel] Re: Queue on 5.8 -- (mostly) good news
The queue now applies on 5.8. Thanks, Florent! cheers, Hugh On Monday, March 18, 2013 9:09:52 PM UTC-3, Hugh Thomas wrote: Hi! There is only one patch that needs to be rebased in order to apply to 5.8. trac_12876_category-fix_abstract_class-nt-rel11521.patch needs to be rebased over #14254. It looks like this is just be a matter of making a one-line change to the context. (And importing #14254 and its dependencies into the queue.) No rush as far as I am concerned, but I figured since 5.8 has been released, it was worth reporting this. cheers, Hugh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: Re: Re: Re: a problem in the new permutation groups code (and a solution ?)
Helloo ! In more detail: one writes a function that can do GAP's OnTuplesTuples action, without even any action guessing involved (this is trivial code, right, we have things like this on our ticket?), and asks it to do the orbit of the tuple of tuples ((1,2),(1,2)). The outcome The output would be [ ((1,2),(1,2)), ((2,(1,2)),(2,(1,2))), (((1,2),1),((1,2),1)) ] What is the problem with that ? If you say OnTupleTuple you know that (1,2) has to be considered as the tuple with two elements 1,2 and we can do the job. You know this because it is an action on a tuple of tuple, the tuple of tuple being ((1,2), (1,2)). So there are two tuples, which are (1,2) and (1,2), each one containing two elments. No way you can confuse this with the element (1,2). Just as one can derive anything from a False statement, one can always get into trouble with design that creates counterexamples to foundations of group theory. Tell me how it is wrong or the mistake I made. Otherwise it works. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: [sage-devel] Re: Re: Re: a problem in the new permutation groups code (and a solution ?)
Even if you manage to answer the question above satisfactory, I still hold that it's not acceptable in the first place to have such design, forcing one to jump through hoops for no good reason, in an extendable system like Sage. This design is CORRECT Dima, if you don't believe so just give me one instance for which there is an uncertainty. OnTupleTupleTupleTupleTuple would tell you that the first 5 layers are NOT elements from the domain, and that only the elements of depth 6 are elements of the domain. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: [sage-devel] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a problem in the new permutation groups code (and a solution ?)
[Followup-To: header set to gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel.] On 2013-03-23, Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com wrote: --bcaec52bf01d97c8d104d893786f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Helloo ! In more detail: one writes a function that can do GAP's OnTuplesTuples action, without even any action guessing involved (this is trivial code, right, we have things like this on our ticket?), and asks it to do the orbit of the tuple of tuples ((1,2),(1,2)). The outcome The output would be [ ((1,2),(1,2)), ((2,(1,2)),(2,(1,2))), (((1,2),1),((1,2),1)) ] no, the 3rd element is computed using a different meaning of (1,2) than the one used to compute the 2nd one. If you used the same meaning for the 2nd as the one for the 3rd, your 2nd would be (1,1). What is the problem with that ? If you say OnTupleTuple you know that (1,2) has to be considered as the tuple with two elements 1,2 and we can do the job. You know this because it is an action on a tuple of tuple, the tuple of tuple being ((1,2), (1,2)). So there are two tuples, which are (1,2) and (1,2), each one containing two elments. No way you can confuse this with the element (1,2). OK, great, so (1,2) is not an element. Yet, you take (1,2) as an element when you compute the 3rd element of the orbit. Is your implementation of the function going to read your mind, to work correctly? Just as one can derive anything from a False statement, one can always get into trouble with design that creates counterexamples to foundations of group theory. Tell me how it is wrong or the mistake I made. Otherwise it works. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [sage-combinat-devel] Re: [sage-devel] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a problem in the new permutation groups code (and a solution ?)
no, the 3rd element is computed using a different meaning of (1,2) than the one used to compute the 2nd one. If you used the same meaning for the 2nd as the one for the 3rd, your 2nd would be (1,1). Then how is your input of type Tuple of Tuple, sir ? OK, great, so (1,2) is not an element. Yet, you take (1,2) as an element when you compute the 3rd element of the orbit. Is your implementation of the function going to read your mind, to work correctly? Of course, because the type of the value returned is A list of tuple of tuple. Hence everything at depth = 3 is a container,and everything at depth 4 is an element. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: [sage-devel] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a problem in the new permutation groups code (and a solution ?)
We are talking about guessing the action once and for all for a given input. You are talking about guessing the action each time a group element acts in the orbit. I agree that the latter is not consistently doable. But it is possible to guess the action in the beginning of the orbit computation, and this is unambiguous. Other points that might be nice to implement (but are not on the ticket): * a switch to optionally print the guess used for the action, maybe verbose=True or action=guess_verbose. * allow any python function f(g,x) as action=f On Saturday, March 23, 2013 9:58:06 AM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote: OK, great, so (1,2) is not an element. Yet, you take (1,2) as an element when you compute the 3rd element of the orbit. Is your implementation of the function going to read your mind, to work correctly? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: [sage-devel] Re: a problem in the new permutation groups code (and a solution ?)
Say, you have 1, 2, (1,2), (2,(1,2)), and perhaps other stuff in the domain. How many different meanings does the orbit of ((2,(1,2)),((2,(1,2))) have? How can you guess the right action for it? Dima it's getting boring. Let's say that I do not try to guess anything if that's a problem, do we agree that a function named orbit which knows the type of its input from the value of action wiill never encounter a ambiguous input nor return an ambiguous output ? Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[sage-combinat-devel] Re: [sage-devel] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a problem in the new permutation groups code (and a solution ?)
On Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:43:05 PM UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote: Now, if 1, 2, and (1,2) are in your domain, is (2,(1,2)) a tuple? According to the minimum depth rule to guess the default action, it is. And how many different meanings does ((2,(1,2)),((2,(1,2))) have? There is a unique guess according to the minimum depth rule, if that is not what you want then you have to specify the action explicitly. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-combinat-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-combinat-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-combinat-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-combinat-devel?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
